+19 BAB, Full Unarmed Damage Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

+19 BAB, Full Unarmed Damage Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gerdreg
05-17-05, 08:42 AM This build is not an "Uber" build, though it doesn't stink either. It's for those monk players who (like me) wish they were just a bit more "Fighter-like". The builds greatest strength is it's shear number of attacks.

The Build...
Monk 2/ Ranger 8/ Sacred Fist 10
Ascetic Hunter allows Monk and Ranger levels to stack for Unarmed Damage, as do Monk and Sacred fist levels. Ranger and SF are both full BAB.
Combining Flurry and Two-Weapong Fighting, a full attack looks like this with negatives for flurry and twf added in (+15/+15/+10/+5/+0 main hand; +15/+10/+5 off-hand).

Here's the expanded build...
1 Monk 1 - Combat Casting, Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Stunning Fist (B)
2 Monk 2 - Combat Reflexes (B)
3 Ranger 1 - Ascetic Hunter, Track (B)
4 Ranger 2 - Two Weapon Fighting (B)
5 Ranger 3 - Endurance (B)
6 Ranger 4 - Improved Natural Attack (4d8 damage at level 20)
7 Ranger 5
8 Ranger 6 – Improved Two Weapon Fighting (B)
9 Sacred Fist 1 - Craft Wonderous Item
10 Sacred Fist 2
11 Sacred Fist 3
12 Sacred Fist 4 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
13 Sacred Fist 5
14 Sacred Fist 6
15 Sacred Fist 7 - Practiced Spellcaster (CL 12 at level 20)
16 Sacred Fist 8
17 Sacred Fist 9
18 Sacred Fist 10 - Ability Focus (Stunning Fist, DC 24 + wis mod vs. favored enemy)
19 Ranger 7
20 Ranger 8

Here are some spells that have good synergy with this build...
Greater Magic Fang (Unarmed Attacks become +3 weapons)
Barkskin (+5 natural bonus to AC)
Bear's Endurance (+4 Con)
Cat's Grace (+4 Dex)
Owl's Wisdom (+4 Wis)
Longstrider (+10 move)
Blade Storm (Swift action , CV) (attack all in reach)
Swift Haste (Swift action, CV) (9 attacks total)
Blades of Fire (Swift action, CA) (+1d6 damage)

The best races for this build are (those with no xp penalty for multi-classing Monk and Ranger and no ECL), Human, Half-Elf, and Wood Elf.
rilem
05-17-05, 10:35 AM It looks good; the Swift Action ranger spells are what really set it apart, I think; there are some good ones that make a lot of sense for a melee combatant.

The number of attacks is also good, though it's a shame you don't have Divine Might or something similar to boost damage. It might be stronger comparatively (vs. other types of Sacred Fists) with one fewer attack, actually — as this stands you still need a high dex; a Cleric-based Sacred Fist with a good dex could take the same feats. If you relied on only your Bonus Combat Style feats, you could keep your Dexterity lower, wear armor and pump some other stat.

The high BAB, while nice, is really not that special — a Cleric1/Monk4/SacredFist10/Cleric5 with Persistent Divine Power will have +20 (+17 without it); the lower base damage (3d8 vs. 4d8 with similar feats) is more than made up for by the Persistent Divine Favor. And you've got access to 7th level cleric spells (CL 18th with P.S. feat). Cleric1/Monk4/SacredFist10/PrestigePaladin5 with Ascetic Knight is another option.

Weaknesses of your build include a low Will save (+8 at level 20, I think, vs. +12 for the cleric version) and the lack of good Ranged-attack spells on the Ranger list. Against a opponent you don't want to go toe-to-toe with, the Cleric/SF has Sword Stream, Searing Light, Flame Strike, etc. I can't think of many comparable ranger spells
Gerdreg
05-17-05, 01:16 PM Great critique, thank you. Your insight has inspired me to try it with Paladin levels instead of Ranger (substituting Ascetic Knight for Hunter) and see what I come up with.
carnivore
05-17-05, 01:23 PM try this:

Monk 2/ ranger 2/ Paladin 2/ fighter 2/ Divine Crusader 1/ Sacred fist 10/ xxxxxxFull BAB

BAB +18
9th level spells

:D
solbergb
05-17-05, 01:43 PM I like the original 6 ranger level build...the combination of ranger spells (guided shot is really nice with shuriken, just as an example) and the reduction of MAD by using ranger to get improved TWF is very nice.

It might be just me but I actually don't want my monks to cast 9th level spells :) It makes them seem less..monklike. But I can live with the sacred fist stuff using the ranger spell list.
rilem
05-17-05, 01:55 PM the combination of ranger spells (guided shot is really nice with shuriken....

Sacred Fist. No. Weapons. Ever.

(Or did that change?)

That Divine Crusader trick is neat. Hadn't thought of that. Pretty limited spell list, but neat anyway.
Gerdreg
05-17-05, 03:12 PM Sacred Fist is still no weapons, though some of the unique Ranger movement and stealth spells are good stuff and very monk-like.

Longstrider adds another 10 ft. to the Sacred Fist's already enhanced movement.
Camoflage and Forestfold (both CD) combine to give a total of +30 to hide checks. This is a good start toward some forest-ninja action.
Accelerated Movement, Branch to Branch, and Easy Climb (all CV) all combine to make you frighteningly good at getting through the forest.
Listening Lorecall and Embrace the Wild (both CV) both give early access to Blindsight, which is very powerful and monkish.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gerdreg 05-17-05, 08:42 AM	This build is not an "Uber" build, though it doesn't stink either. It's for those monk players who (like me) wish they were just a bit more "Fighter-like". The builds greatest strength is it's shear number of attacks. The Build... Monk 2/ Ranger 8/ Sacred Fist 10 Ascetic Hunter allows Monk and Ranger levels to stack for Unarmed Damage, as do Monk and Sacred fist levels. Ranger and SF are both full BAB. Combining Flurry and Two-Weapong Fighting, a full attack looks like this with negatives for flurry and twf added in (+15/+15/+10/+5/+0 main hand; +15/+10/+5 off-hand). Here's the expanded build... 1 Monk 1 - Combat Casting, Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Stunning Fist (B) 2 Monk 2 - Combat Reflexes (B) 3 Ranger 1 - Ascetic Hunter, Track (B) 4 Ranger 2 - Two Weapon Fighting (B) 5 Ranger 3 - Endurance (B) 6 Ranger 4 - Improved Natural Attack (4d8 damage at level 20) 7 Ranger 5 8 Ranger 6 – Improved Two Weapon Fighting (B) 9 Sacred Fist 1 - Craft Wonderous Item 10 Sacred Fist 2 11 Sacred Fist 3 12 Sacred Fist 4 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting 13 Sacred Fist 5 14 Sacred Fist 6 15 Sacred Fist 7 - Practiced Spellcaster (CL 12 at level 20) 16 Sacred Fist 8 17 Sacred Fist 9 18 Sacred Fist 10 - Ability Focus (Stunning Fist, DC 24 + wis mod vs. favored enemy) 19 Ranger 7 20 Ranger 8 Here are some spells that have good synergy with this build... Greater Magic Fang (Unarmed Attacks become +3 weapons) Barkskin (+5 natural bonus to AC) Bear's Endurance (+4 Con) Cat's Grace (+4 Dex) Owl's Wisdom (+4 Wis) Longstrider (+10 move) Blade Storm (Swift action , CV) (attack all in reach) Swift Haste (Swift action, CV) (9 attacks total) Blades of Fire (Swift action, CA) (+1d6 damage) The best races for this build are (those with no xp penalty for multi-classing Monk and Ranger and no ECL), Human, Half-Elf, and Wood Elf.
rilem 05-17-05, 10:35 AM	It looks good; the Swift Action ranger spells are what really set it apart, I think; there are some good ones that make a lot of sense for a melee combatant. The number of attacks is also good, though it's a shame you don't have Divine Might or something similar to boost damage. It might be stronger comparatively (vs. other types of Sacred Fists) with one fewer attack, actually — as this stands you still need a high dex; a Cleric-based Sacred Fist with a good dex could take the same feats. If you relied on only your Bonus Combat Style feats, you could keep your Dexterity lower, wear armor and pump some other stat. The high BAB, while nice, is really not that special — a Cleric1/Monk4/SacredFist10/Cleric5 with Persistent Divine Power will have +20 (+17 without it); the lower base damage (3d8 vs. 4d8 with similar feats) is more than made up for by the Persistent Divine Favor. And you've got access to 7th level cleric spells (CL 18th with P.S. feat). Cleric1/Monk4/SacredFist10/PrestigePaladin5 with Ascetic Knight is another option. Weaknesses of your build include a low Will save (+8 at level 20, I think, vs. +12 for the cleric version) and the lack of good Ranged-attack spells on the Ranger list. Against a opponent you don't want to go toe-to-toe with, the Cleric/SF has Sword Stream, Searing Light, Flame Strike, etc. I can't think of many comparable ranger spells
Gerdreg 05-17-05, 01:16 PM	Great critique, thank you. Your insight has inspired me to try it with Paladin levels instead of Ranger (substituting Ascetic Knight for Hunter) and see what I come up with.
carnivore 05-17-05, 01:23 PM	try this: Monk 2/ ranger 2/ Paladin 2/ fighter 2/ Divine Crusader 1/ Sacred fist 10/ xxxxxxFull BAB BAB +18 9th level spells :D
solbergb 05-17-05, 01:43 PM	I like the original 6 ranger level build...the combination of ranger spells (guided shot is really nice with shuriken, just as an example) and the reduction of MAD by using ranger to get improved TWF is very nice. It might be just me but I actually don't want my monks to cast 9th level spells :) It makes them seem less..monklike. But I can live with the sacred fist stuff using the ranger spell list.
rilem 05-17-05, 01:55 PM	the combination of ranger spells (guided shot is really nice with shuriken.... Sacred Fist. No. Weapons. Ever. (Or did that change?) That Divine Crusader trick is neat. Hadn't thought of that. Pretty limited spell list, but neat anyway.
Gerdreg 05-17-05, 03:12 PM	Sacred Fist is still no weapons, though some of the unique Ranger movement and stealth spells are good stuff and very monk-like. Longstrider adds another 10 ft. to the Sacred Fist's already enhanced movement. Camoflage and Forestfold (both CD) combine to give a total of +30 to hide checks. This is a good start toward some forest-ninja action. Accelerated Movement, Branch to Branch, and Easy Climb (all CV) all combine to make you frighteningly good at getting through the forest. Listening Lorecall and Embrace the Wild (both CV) both give early access to Blindsight, which is very powerful and monkish.