1st edition bard [Archive] - Wizards Community

1st edition bard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Melriken
11-23-04, 01:08 AM I had a friend come to me the other day asking me how to build a fighter/mage. Specificaly he wanted a character that, at level 20 would have a BAB of +20, could cast 9th level arcane spells, and had good saves in all three catagories.

Best I could come up with was BAB 18, Caster Level 17 (wizard), and saves at 13/6/14. I was wondering if anyone else could do better.

The 1st Edition Bard
Wizard 4 / Fighter 2 / Spell Sword 1 / Blade Singer 1 / Eldrich Knight 10 / Loremaster 2

BAB; F / R / W ; CL ; Feats
1 : Wizard 1 0 ; 0 / 0 / 2 ; 1 ; Dodge, Scribe Scroll
2 : Wizard 2 1 ; 0 / 0 / 3 ; 2 ;
3 : Wizard 3 1 ; 1 / 1 / 3 ; 3 ; Combat Casting
4 : Wizard 4 2 ; 1 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ;
5 : ~/Ftr 1 3 ; 3 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ; Weapon Focus (Long Sword)
6 : ~/Ftr 2 4 ; 4 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ; Combat Expertise
7 : ~/SpS 1 5 ; 6 / 1 / 6 ; 5 ; Ignore Spell Resistance 10%
8 : ~/BdS 1 6 ; 6 / 3 / 8 ; 6 ; Bladesong Style (+1 AC)
9 : ~/ErK 1 7 ; 8 / 3 / 8 ; 6 ; (any Feat), (any Fighter)
10: ~/ErK 2 8 ; 9 / 3 / 8 ; 7 ;
11: ~/ErK 3 9 ; 9 / 4 / 9 ; 8 ;
12: ~/ErK 4 10 ; 10/ 4 / 9 ; 9 ; (any Metamagic/Item Creation)
13: ~/ErK 5 11 ; 10/ 4 / 9 ; 10 ;
14: ~/ErK 6 12 ; 11/ 5 / 9 ; 11 ;
15: ~/ErK 7 13 ; 11/ 5 / 9 ; 12 ; (any Metamagic/Item creation)
16: ~/ErK 8 14 ; 12/ 5 / 9 ; 13 ;
17: ~/ErK 9 15 ; 12/ 6 / 10; 14 ;
18: ~/ErK 10 16 ; 13/ 6 / 11; 15 ; Skill Focus(Knowlage [ Any ] )
19: ~/Lrm 1 17 ; 13/ 6 / 13; 16 ; Secret (Weapon Trick)
20: ~/Lrm 2 18 ; 13/ 6 / 14; 17 ; Lore

Okay, so the BAB is actually 17, but the weapon trick gives +1 to hit with all weapons, and the character already has 4 attacks (with 16 BAB) so there isnt really a difference between this and 18 BAB.

Anyhow, I was wondering if I was missing anything significant that would actually make it possible.
Eyeless Blond
11-23-04, 01:21 AM Practiced Spellcaster will help, raising your caster level to 20 (though you'll still only know as many spells as a 17th level wizard.) I hear good things about Dragonslayer, though I don't know what book it's from. Really though we'll need to know what books you're using, or at least what edition you're using, to be able to help more.

Really the only real way this is at all possible is with UA and gestalt classes. Frankly this guy sounds like a munchkin to me. He wants BAB +20, 20th level casting, and three good saves. Why not ask for 10+int skill points per level, 20 character feats, 15d6 sneak attack dice, and the ability to cast Wish for free once a round too while he's at it? :P
Tempest Stormwind
11-23-04, 01:27 AM Look up the word "gish" -- there's a whole character spotlight on this concept. The CO posters have done a lot of work for you already; you can draw some good ideas out of there. And believe me, when the CO guys feel they've found some goal worth working towards... well... let's just say that "crazy powerful" isn't grandiose enough.
baoban sith
11-23-04, 08:36 AM Also, first edition bards were a fighter/thief/druid blend, anyway.
Todd
11-23-04, 08:42 AM Check out Lord Zeb's Sublime Knight in the Sublime Compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=340926) thread.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Melriken 11-23-04, 01:08 AM	I had a friend come to me the other day asking me how to build a fighter/mage. Specificaly he wanted a character that, at level 20 would have a BAB of +20, could cast 9th level arcane spells, and had good saves in all three catagories. Best I could come up with was BAB 18, Caster Level 17 (wizard), and saves at 13/6/14. I was wondering if anyone else could do better. The 1st Edition Bard Wizard 4 / Fighter 2 / Spell Sword 1 / Blade Singer 1 / Eldrich Knight 10 / Loremaster 2 BAB; F / R / W ; CL ; Feats 1 : Wizard 1 0 ; 0 / 0 / 2 ; 1 ; Dodge, Scribe Scroll 2 : Wizard 2 1 ; 0 / 0 / 3 ; 2 ; 3 : Wizard 3 1 ; 1 / 1 / 3 ; 3 ; Combat Casting 4 : Wizard 4 2 ; 1 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ; 5 : ~/Ftr 1 3 ; 3 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ; Weapon Focus (Long Sword) 6 : ~/Ftr 2 4 ; 4 / 1 / 4 ; 4 ; Combat Expertise 7 : ~/SpS 1 5 ; 6 / 1 / 6 ; 5 ; Ignore Spell Resistance 10% 8 : ~/BdS 1 6 ; 6 / 3 / 8 ; 6 ; Bladesong Style (+1 AC) 9 : ~/ErK 1 7 ; 8 / 3 / 8 ; 6 ; (any Feat), (any Fighter) 10: ~/ErK 2 8 ; 9 / 3 / 8 ; 7 ; 11: ~/ErK 3 9 ; 9 / 4 / 9 ; 8 ; 12: ~/ErK 4 10 ; 10/ 4 / 9 ; 9 ; (any Metamagic/Item Creation) 13: ~/ErK 5 11 ; 10/ 4 / 9 ; 10 ; 14: ~/ErK 6 12 ; 11/ 5 / 9 ; 11 ; 15: ~/ErK 7 13 ; 11/ 5 / 9 ; 12 ; (any Metamagic/Item creation) 16: ~/ErK 8 14 ; 12/ 5 / 9 ; 13 ; 17: ~/ErK 9 15 ; 12/ 6 / 10; 14 ; 18: ~/ErK 10 16 ; 13/ 6 / 11; 15 ; Skill Focus(Knowlage [ Any ] ) 19: ~/Lrm 1 17 ; 13/ 6 / 13; 16 ; Secret (Weapon Trick) 20: ~/Lrm 2 18 ; 13/ 6 / 14; 17 ; Lore Okay, so the BAB is actually 17, but the weapon trick gives +1 to hit with all weapons, and the character already has 4 attacks (with 16 BAB) so there isnt really a difference between this and 18 BAB. Anyhow, I was wondering if I was missing anything significant that would actually make it possible.
Eyeless Blond 11-23-04, 01:21 AM	Practiced Spellcaster will help, raising your caster level to 20 (though you'll still only know as many spells as a 17th level wizard.) I hear good things about Dragonslayer, though I don't know what book it's from. Really though we'll need to know what books you're using, or at least what edition you're using, to be able to help more. Really the only real way this is at all possible is with UA and gestalt classes. Frankly this guy sounds like a munchkin to me. He wants BAB +20, 20th level casting, and three good saves. Why not ask for 10+int skill points per level, 20 character feats, 15d6 sneak attack dice, and the ability to cast Wish for free once a round too while he's at it? :P
Tempest Stormwind 11-23-04, 01:27 AM	Look up the word "gish" -- there's a whole character spotlight on this concept. The CO posters have done a lot of work for you already; you can draw some good ideas out of there. And believe me, when the CO guys feel they've found some goal worth working towards... well... let's just say that "crazy powerful" isn't grandiose enough.
baoban sith 11-23-04, 08:36 AM	Also, first edition bards were a fighter/thief/druid blend, anyway.
Todd 11-23-04, 08:42 AM	Check out Lord Zeb's Sublime Knight in the Sublime Compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=340926) thread.