1st lvl Arcane Caster cheese Pyromaniac Style!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

1st lvl Arcane Caster cheese Pyromaniac Style!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiamDeclan
07-13-06, 11:30 PM Okay in our campaigns we get a free regional feat for free and we can also take 2 flaws for 2 bonus feats.

Now if I take a Human I get a bonus feat +regional + 2 flaw feats + 1st level feat =5 feats.
Lets go with Sorcerer as a class and I take these feats:
Precocious Apprentice (choosing either Scorching Ray, Combust or Fireburst)
Spell Thematics (choosing one of the spells above casting it at +1 caster level)
Bloodline of Fire (+2 caster level on fire spells)
Sudden Still (pesky grapplers)
Sudden Maximize

Now for only once a day ( about 1st level encounters you should only have 1-2 encounters/day anyway) I can cast a 2nd level spell (if I make my caster level check VS DC8
and this spell will be cast as a 4th level caster. Scorching Ray will do 24 points on a ranged touch attack when I use Sudden Maximize on it, Combust will do 32 points when I use a Sudden Max on it and Fireburst will do 32 points Reflex for 1/2 when I use Sudden Max on it as well.

I can't think of any other ways to make this better at all. You can even do it with Warmage for more damage if you have a INT bonus and Duskblade can use Scorching Ray to do it as well.
neilthrun
07-14-06, 02:00 AM Combust starts the oppenent on fire right? Swap out sudden still for Pyro from song and silence.

Wow, this would be a great character to play for a session. You know, the crazy guy who starts things on fire. Granted, after a level or two of burning towns to the ground hes going to get his but kicked, but its not like he was really going anywhere anyway.
LiamDeclan
07-14-06, 02:34 AM Good call for the Pyro Feat!!! :dancin:
That is a good find.
Tytalus
07-14-06, 03:28 AM I personally prefer a sorcerer with Draconic Heritage (green), Draconic Breath, Precocious Apprentice for a (guaranteed) 4D6 cone of acid damage. Plus, you can still convert all your 1st level spells into 2D6 cones.

No targetting roll, no caster level check, plus you hit multiple opponents. And at lvl 1, 4D6 is *a lot*.
Tytalus
07-14-06, 03:40 AM Alternatively, your idea can be improved, too. Let's take those five as required:

- Precosious Apprentice
- Bloodline of Fire
- Sudden Maximize

Then you have a host of options to further increase your caster level:

- Spell Thematics: +1 CL of themed spells [PGtF] - you got that one already
- Calishite Elementalist (Fire Tradition): +1 CL for Fire Spells, exceed max spell damage [RoF]
- Elemental Spellcasting (Fire): +1 CL for Fire Spells [PH]
- Spellgifted (Evocartion) [Trait] +1 CL for evocations [UA]
- Elemental focus (Fire): +1 DC for Fire spells [Drg 319]

If you play the evoker variant from UA instead of a sorcerer, you can get an additional CL (Energy Affinity) for fire spells.

So you can get caster level 6 or 7 (if you drop sudden maximize) at level 1 resulting in 36 points of damage or 7D6, respectively. For Combust/Fireburst, the damage is 48 points or 7D8, of course. Nasty.

[If you can swing playing a Fire Gnome [PH] by your DM, then you get an additional +2 CL on fire spells. Too bad they are LA+1]
jameswilliamogle
07-14-06, 09:55 AM You could cast a maximized Meteor Storm at 3rd level using this trick in the same campaign:
Illumian (Naenhoon), Cleric 1 / Wizard 1 / X 1, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, Extra Slot, Sudden Maximize. You now have a 9th level slot ;). That makes 192 damage for 1 target. Still leaves room for a regional feat, too. (Of course, lot of people are debating this right now in another thread.)
LiamDeclan
07-14-06, 11:53 AM Could this idea work as well?
Precocious Apprentice (you know a 2nd level spells and have 1 spell slot for it)
Versatile Spellcaster (spend 2 lower level slots to cast a spell you know that is 1 level higher
Bloodline of Fire
Spell Thematics
Pyro

Could you now cast 3 2nd level spells by burning up all your 1st level slots and also using the 1/day precocious 2nd level spell too?
PhaedrusXY
07-14-06, 01:54 PM You should name this character TROGDOR!
Zemyla
07-14-06, 02:35 PM Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level.
PhaedrusXY
07-14-06, 03:26 PM Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level.Good point. He must be at least ECL 4, because he is a half-dragon. Only having one arm might lower that a bit with a lenient DM, though.
dirkformica
07-14-06, 05:00 PM "Actually, he was just a dragon. But he was still TROGDOR!!!"
LiamDeclan
07-14-06, 11:55 PM You should name this character TROGDOR!

Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level.

Good point. He must be at least ECL 4, because he is a half-dragon. Only having one arm might lower that a bit with a lenient DM, though.

Actually, he was just a dragon. But he was still TROGDOR!!!"

Can anyone tell me what the heck you are talking about and how this helps this thread?
LiamDeclan
07-15-06, 03:55 AM Alternatively, your idea can be improved, too. Let's take those five as required:

- Precosious Apprentice
- Bloodline of Fire
- Sudden Maximize

Then you have a host of options to further increase your caster level:

- Spell Thematics: +1 CL of themed spells [PGtF] - you got that one already
- Calishite Elementalist (Fire Tradition): +1 CL for Fire Spells, exceed max spell damage [RoF]
- Elemental Spellcasting (Fire): +1 CL for Fire Spells [PH]
- Spellgifted (Evocartion) [Trait] +1 CL for evocations [UA]
- Elemental focus (Fire): +1 DC for Fire spells [Drg 319]

If you play the evoker variant from UA instead of a sorcerer, you can get an additional CL (Energy Affinity) for fire spells.

So you can get caster level 6 or 7 (if you drop sudden maximize) at level 1 resulting in 36 points of damage or 7D6, respectively. For Combust/Fireburst, the damage is 48 points or 7D8, of course. Nasty.

[If you can swing playing a Fire Gnome [PH] by your DM, then you get an additional +2 CL on fire spells. Too bad they are LA+1]

I have gotten better ideas for this Sorcerer. Taking 2 flaws again for feats, gaining regional feat for free (in our campaigns), and taking the trait from UA for Spellgifted.
Versatile Spellcaster
Bloodline of Fire
Calashite Elementalist
Spellgifted Evocations
Pyro

Now I take the 2 spells known as Ray of Flame (spell compendium) and Kelgore's Fire Bolt.

Ray of Flame I cast as a 5th level caster doing about 3d6+3 (the +3 is from Pyro feat)damage on a ranged touch attack and no save, plus the added bonus they have to make a Reflex save vs DC 15 +5 from Pyro feat = DC20 or catch on fire and take 1d6 damage each round until they put themselves out. This is good for close range 35ft or less.

Kelgores Firebolt is going to be a 5d6+5 (the +5 is from Pyro feat)fire damage and Reflex save for 1/2 damage. It has Medium Range so its 150ft. and I believe there is no attack roll.

Now if I can get the Magic Blooded Template added on to this I will have a CHA of 20 giving me 2 bonus 1st level spells. Total of 5 spells per day at 1st level and using the Versatile Caster feat I can burn up 4 of my 0 level spells to cast 2 more 1st level ones. Total fire bolts or rays per day = 7 Pretty good/crazy for a 1st level caster.
Take Warmage to do some extra damage with INT bonus.
PhaedrusXY
07-15-06, 12:41 PM Can anyone tell me what the heck you are talking about and how this helps this thread?http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html
LiamDeclan
07-15-06, 03:01 PM :rofl: http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

too funny. thanks for the link.
Caelic
07-15-06, 03:06 PM The fact that Pyro is 3.0 material notwithstanding, doesn't it stipulate that you need to actually light the target on fire to do extra damage?
LiamDeclan
07-15-06, 03:49 PM The fact that Pyro is 3.0 material notwithstanding, doesn't it stipulate that you need to actually light the target on fire to do extra damage?

It states "If you set something or someone on fire by any means (alchemist's fire for example), the flames do an extra 1 point of damage per die, and the Reflex save DC to extinguish the flames increases by +5.
Normally fire does 1d6 damage and has a DC15 to extinguish.

Now I am reading this as "by any means" as the spells Ray of Flame and Combust would work. Seeing how in their descriptions that the spells would set your opponent on fire if he fails his Reflex saves. Looking at it now I am thinking that I wouldn't being doing the extra damage I stated earlier until they caught on fire. So my Ray of Flame wouldn't do 3d6+3 it would do 3d6 then if they caught on fire it would be 1d6+1.
I would appreciate any thoughts on that interpretation.

I just really like the increase in the save DC :mage:
Maybe I should take the spell Raging Flame to increase the effects as well and carry lots of Alchemist Fire to boot. :devil:
AramilWindwalker
07-15-06, 03:58 PM where can I find versatile spellcaster?
FlimFlam
07-15-06, 04:02 PM It states "If you set something or someone on fire by any means (alchemist's fire for example), the flames do an extra 1 point of damage per die, and the Reflex save DC to extinguish the flames increases by +5.
Normally fire does 1d6 damage and has a DC15 to extinguish.

Now I am reading this as "by any means" as the spells Ray of Flame and Combust would work. Seeing how in their descriptions that the spells would set your opponent on fire if he fails his Reflex saves. Looking at it now I am thinking that I wouldn't being doing the extra damage I stated earlier until they caught on fire. So my Ray of Flame wouldn't do 3d6+3 it would do 3d6 then if they caught on fire it would be 1d6+1.
I would appreciate any thoughts on that interpretation.

That is how I have interpreted it. They actually need to catch on fire in order for Pyro to kick in.
LiamDeclan
07-15-06, 04:14 PM where can I find versatile spellcaster?

Races of the Dragon
LiamDeclan
07-15-06, 11:55 PM Would the feat Ability Focus increase my Pyro feats setting people on fire DC?
Is there any other way by way of feats that I could increase this even more?
LiamDeclan
07-16-06, 01:36 AM Sorry guys but I am now totally in love with this Pyromaniac type character.

Just had a wonderful thought about trying to enhance this stuff further.
I found the Grenadier feat and Mad Alchemist feat in PHBII.
I can't get them as of yet at first level unless I give up a feat and still will have to wait until 3rd level to grab Mad Alchemist.
If I go human I could grab Grenadier and then grab Mad Alchemist at 3rd and still have Versatile Spellcaster as well.

When I hit 3rd level and I cast Raging Flames first then I can use Launch Item (0 level spell) to shoot a Alchemist's fire flask at my enemy or I can throw it.
He takes 2d6+3 points of damage on the first round (due to Raging Flame, Pyro, Grenadier & Alchemist Fire), On the second round I hit him with the Ray of Flame for 4d6+4 fire damage + Mad Alchemist states that if I strike a creature with a weapon or spell that deals fire damage it takes an additional +1d6 fire damage and catches on fire if it is not on fire already. So that additional +1d6 is now +2d6+2 from the Raging Flame spell & Pyro feat. Since its now automatically on fire after that Ray of Fire attack, it takes an additional +2d6+2 fire damage (Pyro & Raging Flame) each round until it makes a DC20 Reflex save to put itself out. Since he was automatically on fire and took damage his equipment must also make a DC20 Reflex save or it takes the same damage he did. As per the DMG page 303-304.

So in 3 rounds and 2 spells later, he has taken a minimum of 8d6+9 fire damage, I think it might actually be 10d6+11, I'm not 100% sure about that though so someone check the feats and let me know please.
On the 2nd round I pretty much took the enemy out of the fight. Hitting him with the Alchemist Fire would mean he should be smart and take that full round action to extinguish the flames or take that additional damage. On the 3rd round when the Ray of Flame hits him he is not going to be happy and he will still be out of the fight (if not dead) and trying to make that DC20 reflex save.

On the 4th round I hit him again with another Alchemist Fire or Lantern oil (either one works per the Mad Alchemist feat) and continue to show George Foreman what a real man's Barbeque is like. :mage:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiamDeclan 07-13-06, 11:30 PM	Okay in our campaigns we get a free regional feat for free and we can also take 2 flaws for 2 bonus feats. Now if I take a Human I get a bonus feat +regional + 2 flaw feats + 1st level feat =5 feats. Lets go with Sorcerer as a class and I take these feats: Precocious Apprentice (choosing either Scorching Ray, Combust or Fireburst) Spell Thematics (choosing one of the spells above casting it at +1 caster level) Bloodline of Fire (+2 caster level on fire spells) Sudden Still (pesky grapplers) Sudden Maximize Now for only once a day ( about 1st level encounters you should only have 1-2 encounters/day anyway) I can cast a 2nd level spell (if I make my caster level check VS DC8 and this spell will be cast as a 4th level caster. Scorching Ray will do 24 points on a ranged touch attack when I use Sudden Maximize on it, Combust will do 32 points when I use a Sudden Max on it and Fireburst will do 32 points Reflex for 1/2 when I use Sudden Max on it as well. I can't think of any other ways to make this better at all. You can even do it with Warmage for more damage if you have a INT bonus and Duskblade can use Scorching Ray to do it as well.
neilthrun 07-14-06, 02:00 AM	Combust starts the oppenent on fire right? Swap out sudden still for Pyro from song and silence. Wow, this would be a great character to play for a session. You know, the crazy guy who starts things on fire. Granted, after a level or two of burning towns to the ground hes going to get his but kicked, but its not like he was really going anywhere anyway.
LiamDeclan 07-14-06, 02:34 AM	Good call for the Pyro Feat!!! :dancin: That is a good find.
Tytalus 07-14-06, 03:28 AM	I personally prefer a sorcerer with Draconic Heritage (green), Draconic Breath, Precocious Apprentice for a (guaranteed) 4D6 cone of acid damage. Plus, you can still convert all your 1st level spells into 2D6 cones. No targetting roll, no caster level check, plus you hit multiple opponents. And at lvl 1, 4D6 is a lot.
Tytalus 07-14-06, 03:40 AM	Alternatively, your idea can be improved, too. Let's take those five as required: - Precosious Apprentice - Bloodline of Fire - Sudden Maximize Then you have a host of options to further increase your caster level: - Spell Thematics: +1 CL of themed spells [PGtF] - you got that one already - Calishite Elementalist (Fire Tradition): +1 CL for Fire Spells, exceed max spell damage [RoF] - Elemental Spellcasting (Fire): +1 CL for Fire Spells [PH] - Spellgifted (Evocartion) [Trait] +1 CL for evocations [UA] - Elemental focus (Fire): +1 DC for Fire spells [Drg 319] If you play the evoker variant from UA instead of a sorcerer, you can get an additional CL (Energy Affinity) for fire spells. So you can get caster level 6 or 7 (if you drop sudden maximize) at level 1 resulting in 36 points of damage or 7D6, respectively. For Combust/Fireburst, the damage is 48 points or 7D8, of course. Nasty. [If you can swing playing a Fire Gnome [PH] by your DM, then you get an additional +2 CL on fire spells. Too bad they are LA+1]
jameswilliamogle 07-14-06, 09:55 AM	You could cast a maximized Meteor Storm at 3rd level using this trick in the same campaign: Illumian (Naenhoon), Cleric 1 / Wizard 1 / X 1, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, Extra Slot, Sudden Maximize. You now have a 9th level slot ;). That makes 192 damage for 1 target. Still leaves room for a regional feat, too. (Of course, lot of people are debating this right now in another thread.)
LiamDeclan 07-14-06, 11:53 AM	Could this idea work as well? Precocious Apprentice (you know a 2nd level spells and have 1 spell slot for it) Versatile Spellcaster (spend 2 lower level slots to cast a spell you know that is 1 level higher Bloodline of Fire Spell Thematics Pyro Could you now cast 3 2nd level spells by burning up all your 1st level slots and also using the 1/day precocious 2nd level spell too?
PhaedrusXY 07-14-06, 01:54 PM	You should name this character TROGDOR!
Zemyla 07-14-06, 02:35 PM	Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level.
PhaedrusXY 07-14-06, 03:26 PM	Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level.Good point. He must be at least ECL 4, because he is a half-dragon. Only having one arm might lower that a bit with a lenient DM, though.
dirkformica 07-14-06, 05:00 PM	"Actually, he was just a dragon. But he was still TROGDOR!!!"
LiamDeclan 07-14-06, 11:55 PM	You should name this character TROGDOR! Except I refuse to believe Trogdor is 1st level. Good point. He must be at least ECL 4, because he is a half-dragon. Only having one arm might lower that a bit with a lenient DM, though. Actually, he was just a dragon. But he was still TROGDOR!!!" Can anyone tell me what the heck you are talking about and how this helps this thread?
LiamDeclan 07-15-06, 03:55 AM	Alternatively, your idea can be improved, too. Let's take those five as required: - Precosious Apprentice - Bloodline of Fire - Sudden Maximize Then you have a host of options to further increase your caster level: - Spell Thematics: +1 CL of themed spells [PGtF] - you got that one already - Calishite Elementalist (Fire Tradition): +1 CL for Fire Spells, exceed max spell damage [RoF] - Elemental Spellcasting (Fire): +1 CL for Fire Spells [PH] - Spellgifted (Evocartion) [Trait] +1 CL for evocations [UA] - Elemental focus (Fire): +1 DC for Fire spells [Drg 319] If you play the evoker variant from UA instead of a sorcerer, you can get an additional CL (Energy Affinity) for fire spells. So you can get caster level 6 or 7 (if you drop sudden maximize) at level 1 resulting in 36 points of damage or 7D6, respectively. For Combust/Fireburst, the damage is 48 points or 7D8, of course. Nasty. [If you can swing playing a Fire Gnome [PH] by your DM, then you get an additional +2 CL on fire spells. Too bad they are LA+1] I have gotten better ideas for this Sorcerer. Taking 2 flaws again for feats, gaining regional feat for free (in our campaigns), and taking the trait from UA for Spellgifted. Versatile Spellcaster Bloodline of Fire Calashite Elementalist Spellgifted Evocations Pyro Now I take the 2 spells known as Ray of Flame (spell compendium) and Kelgore's Fire Bolt. Ray of Flame I cast as a 5th level caster doing about 3d6+3 (the +3 is from Pyro feat)damage on a ranged touch attack and no save, plus the added bonus they have to make a Reflex save vs DC 15 +5 from Pyro feat = DC20 or catch on fire and take 1d6 damage each round until they put themselves out. This is good for close range 35ft or less. Kelgores Firebolt is going to be a 5d6+5 (the +5 is from Pyro feat)fire damage and Reflex save for 1/2 damage. It has Medium Range so its 150ft. and I believe there is no attack roll. Now if I can get the Magic Blooded Template added on to this I will have a CHA of 20 giving me 2 bonus 1st level spells. Total of 5 spells per day at 1st level and using the Versatile Caster feat I can burn up 4 of my 0 level spells to cast 2 more 1st level ones. Total fire bolts or rays per day = 7 Pretty good/crazy for a 1st level caster. Take Warmage to do some extra damage with INT bonus.
PhaedrusXY 07-15-06, 12:41 PM	Can anyone tell me what the heck you are talking about and how this helps this thread?http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html
LiamDeclan 07-15-06, 03:01 PM	:rofl: http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html too funny. thanks for the link.
Caelic 07-15-06, 03:06 PM	The fact that Pyro is 3.0 material notwithstanding, doesn't it stipulate that you need to actually light the target on fire to do extra damage?
LiamDeclan 07-15-06, 03:49 PM	The fact that Pyro is 3.0 material notwithstanding, doesn't it stipulate that you need to actually light the target on fire to do extra damage? It states "If you set something or someone on fire by any means (alchemist's fire for example), the flames do an extra 1 point of damage per die, and the Reflex save DC to extinguish the flames increases by +5. Normally fire does 1d6 damage and has a DC15 to extinguish. Now I am reading this as "by any means" as the spells Ray of Flame and Combust would work. Seeing how in their descriptions that the spells would set your opponent on fire if he fails his Reflex saves. Looking at it now I am thinking that I wouldn't being doing the extra damage I stated earlier until they caught on fire. So my Ray of Flame wouldn't do 3d6+3 it would do 3d6 then if they caught on fire it would be 1d6+1. I would appreciate any thoughts on that interpretation. I just really like the increase in the save DC :mage: Maybe I should take the spell Raging Flame to increase the effects as well and carry lots of Alchemist Fire to boot. :devil:
AramilWindwalker 07-15-06, 03:58 PM	where can I find versatile spellcaster?
FlimFlam 07-15-06, 04:02 PM	It states "If you set something or someone on fire by any means (alchemist's fire for example), the flames do an extra 1 point of damage per die, and the Reflex save DC to extinguish the flames increases by +5. Normally fire does 1d6 damage and has a DC15 to extinguish. Now I am reading this as "by any means" as the spells Ray of Flame and Combust would work. Seeing how in their descriptions that the spells would set your opponent on fire if he fails his Reflex saves. Looking at it now I am thinking that I wouldn't being doing the extra damage I stated earlier until they caught on fire. So my Ray of Flame wouldn't do 3d6+3 it would do 3d6 then if they caught on fire it would be 1d6+1. I would appreciate any thoughts on that interpretation. That is how I have interpreted it. They actually need to catch on fire in order for Pyro to kick in.
LiamDeclan 07-15-06, 04:14 PM	where can I find versatile spellcaster? Races of the Dragon
LiamDeclan 07-15-06, 11:55 PM	Would the feat Ability Focus increase my Pyro feats setting people on fire DC? Is there any other way by way of feats that I could increase this even more?
LiamDeclan 07-16-06, 01:36 AM	Sorry guys but I am now totally in love with this Pyromaniac type character. Just had a wonderful thought about trying to enhance this stuff further. I found the Grenadier feat and Mad Alchemist feat in PHBII. I can't get them as of yet at first level unless I give up a feat and still will have to wait until 3rd level to grab Mad Alchemist. If I go human I could grab Grenadier and then grab Mad Alchemist at 3rd and still have Versatile Spellcaster as well. When I hit 3rd level and I cast Raging Flames first then I can use Launch Item (0 level spell) to shoot a Alchemist's fire flask at my enemy or I can throw it. He takes 2d6+3 points of damage on the first round (due to Raging Flame, Pyro, Grenadier & Alchemist Fire), On the second round I hit him with the Ray of Flame for 4d6+4 fire damage + Mad Alchemist states that if I strike a creature with a weapon or spell that deals fire damage it takes an additional +1d6 fire damage and catches on fire if it is not on fire already. So that additional +1d6 is now +2d6+2 from the Raging Flame spell & Pyro feat. Since its now automatically on fire after that Ray of Fire attack, it takes an additional +2d6+2 fire damage (Pyro & Raging Flame) each round until it makes a DC20 Reflex save to put itself out. Since he was automatically on fire and took damage his equipment must also make a DC20 Reflex save or it takes the same damage he did. As per the DMG page 303-304. So in 3 rounds and 2 spells later, he has taken a minimum of 8d6+9 fire damage, I think it might actually be 10d6+11, I'm not 100% sure about that though so someone check the feats and let me know please. On the 2nd round I pretty much took the enemy out of the fight. Hitting him with the Alchemist Fire would mean he should be smart and take that full round action to extinguish the flames or take that additional damage. On the 3rd round when the Ray of Flame hits him he is not going to be happy and he will still be out of the fight (if not dead) and trying to make that DC20 reflex save. On the 4th round I hit him again with another Alchemist Fire or Lantern oil (either one works per the Mad Alchemist feat) and continue to show George Foreman what a real man's Barbeque is like. :mage: