Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dirkformica 01-15-07, 10:26 PM	After some changes in the group I play with every blue moon, I’m going to be playing two characters. The first few sessions the rest of the party will be a 12th level Human Monk and a 12th level Domain Wizard (Unearthed Arcana) / Fatespinner (Complete Arcane.) Then the other two characters would be a Ranger / Beastmaster (Complete Adventurer) and a Cleric / Radiant Servant of Pelor (Complete Divine.) The setting is kind of a mix of Greyhawk with lingering Forgotten Realms stuff. It seems like I kind of need to cover the tank, healer and skill monkey roles. What I’d like to play is a full divine character with Spell domain and persistent Draconic Polymorph (Draconomicon) / Divine Power and a Druid (possibly with a dip in Cloistered Cleric [UA] for persistent Bite of the Werebear / Vigorous Circle.) But with 12 levels and the need for some kind of trapfinder/skill character, I think I’ll have to go a different route with someone. I was kind of thinking a Ninja 1 / Druid 11 might be okay, but the whole claws and lack of communication with the party kind of hurts its role as a skill monkey overall. I'm also not sure how the DM is going to handle Wild Shape. We aren't using the errata rules, but I'm not sure what kind of gear this character would get away with wearing. If I dilute the Cleric build I end up with Exp penalties since I’m looking to use Drac Poly for outsiders like Kelvezu (Monster Manual II) so I need Otherworldly (Player’s Guide to Faerun) which means Elf, Spirit Folk, or Deep Imaskari and those last two races are terrible for this build. I don’t want to do a 3 CC / 2 Rogue or Ninja here because I’d loose the 6th level spell slot I need for Greater Anyspell: Draconic Polymorph. I'd most like something along the lines of Cloistered Cleric 3 (UA) / Church Inquisitor (CD) 4 / Ruathar 2 (Races of the Wild) / Seeker of the Misty Isle 1 (CD) / Contemplative 2 (CD) I also thought of a feat Rogue (UA) 1 / Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior) 3 / Cloistered Cleric 1 (UA) / Chameleon 7 (Races of Destiny) for versatility but it doesn’t seem quite as fun to me as either of the other builds; too watered down in all directions even if it can cover many bases. The stats I have to work with are 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 9 or 17, 16, 16, 14, 13, 11 (we used 4d6 with re-rolls of 1’s.) And the books allowed are: PHB, DMG, MM 1+2+3, Unearthed Arcana (on a case by case basis, No Flaws,) Complete Arcane + Divine + Warrior + Adventurer, Races of the Wild + possibly Destiny (I’m the only one with this book so it might not fly with the DM), Draconomicon, Player’s Guide to Faerun and Spell Compendium. I can also probably get away with the Star Elf from Unapproachable East although nobody has that book so I don’t think anything else from there would work. Should I just suck it up and pick one of the characters I really want to play and just make a skill monkey out of the other one? If so, what would be a good build? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Hanniball 01-15-07, 10:36 PM	For one of the characters I'd definitely go Chameleon. The Chameleon Compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082) can provide far more insight than I can. I can tell you that they have an answer for damn near anything. For the other, Druid. Clr 1/Drd 11 for divine metamagic cheese works pretty well. I'll add more later when I'm not at work. Either way...just my 2 cp
DavidWL 01-15-07, 11:50 PM	Can you use web enhancements? (Which are available to everyone ...) If so, just take the Kobald domain - (grants trapfinding & Disable Device/Search as class skills) - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a Best, David
Prominence 01-15-07, 11:58 PM	beguiler and druid. Healing, spells, good skills on both lists, trapfinding, wildshape + animal companion tanking. Alternatively, a Cloistered Cleric with the Kobold domain mentioned above would work nicely. I think you could do something with a Crusader / Bard gish, too.
dirkformica 01-16-07, 12:05 AM	Can you use web enhancements? (Which are available to everyone ...) If so, just take the Kobald domain - (grants trapfinding & Disable Device/Search as class skills) - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a Best, David I thought about that, but the whole being a Kobold part is a downer, especially the light sensitivity. Also, I wouldn't be able to take Otherworldly for the outsider type. Any ways around the light sensitivity? I might be able to give up Kelvezu polymorph if really pressed. By the way, can races other than Elf, Deep Imaskari and Spirit Folk take Otherwordly? The listing for Human in PGtF seems to indicate they can be from any region, but they aren't listed in the Otherworldly feat description as an option. beguiler and druid. Healing, spells, good skills on both lists, trapfinding, wildshape + animal companion tanking. Can't take Beguiler since it's from a book I don't have access to. Just for reference, though, what book is that from, anywho?
DavidWL 01-16-07, 01:22 AM	I thought about that, but the whole being a Kobold part is a downer, especially the light sensitivity. Also, I wouldn't be able to take Otherworldly for the outsider type. Any ways around the light sensitivity? I might be able to give up Kelvezu polymorph if really pressed. By the way, can races other than Elf, Deep Imaskari and Spirit Folk take Otherwordly? The listing for Human in PGtF seems to indicate they can be from any region, but they aren't listed in the Otherworldly feat description as an option. Well, it would be a little bizzare, but a "Elf, Deep Imaskari or Spirit Folk" could worship a kobald God :rolleyes: You know, abducted at birth, raised by krazy kobalds, but with planar blood flowing through your veins...:D If you had access to the planar handbook, you could use a planar touchstone to get trapfinding + skills. If you had access to generic classes, you could use a generic divine caster to get access to trapfinding + skills. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm Also, Beguiler is from Player's Handbook II - very cool class. Mix of rogue and sorcerer. Re: Light Sensativity - no idea Re: other races - don't know, but I doubt it Best, David
JaronK 01-16-07, 02:27 AM	Well, the only character that can do all three is a Cloistered Cleric with the Trickery and Kobold domains. Hey, why not? Sure, you're a kobold, but you've got everything you wanted in just one character. Artificer can get pretty close though. JaronK
dirkformica 01-16-07, 02:56 AM	The Kobold route sounds interesting, but the light sensitivity is still an issue. I don't currently have the book, but I've read there is a mundane item in Races of the Dragon that is basically DnD sunglasses that gets rid of light sensitivity. Can anyone confirm that? Maybe I can get away with that, although it might be a problem with the whole polymorph shenanigans. I may have found a way around the Outsider type problem. If I cast the 4th level spell Holy Transformation, Lesser from Spell Compendium, I gain the Outsider (Good) type for a few rounds. I should then be able to cast DM Persistent Draconic Polymorph using the Spell domain and my 6th level domain slot to get outsider types like Kelvezu. The last trick doesn't leave room for Trickery in a Kobold build. Although I could probably use the no devotion route and stick Contemplative in the build for a free domain. With the books listed before, and adding the sunglasses from Races of the Dragon and the Kobold domain from the webpage, I'm tentatively thinking something like Cloistered Cleric 5 / Church Inquisitor 3 / Ruathar 3 / Contemplative 1. Skills aren't terrific, but I can stagger the two extra CC levels in there to help pump a few of them after they drop off the current class lists. I like the Immunity to charms and chance to see through illusions from CI and it gets 4 + int skills with search on the list. Ruathar has some pretty decent skills too and a reflex save boost. Cont is required for the bonus domain. But how best to arrange the skills and the class level progressions...
JaronK 01-16-07, 03:06 AM	There are indeed some glasses for like 10gp that fix the light sensitivity issue (and give you a -1 to spot checks). You get to be a kobold in shades. Now how cool is that? JaronK
jedrious 01-16-07, 03:56 AM	out of curiosity if your party has a cleric RSoP, why do you feel the need to fill a healer role? if you need a tasnk that can double as a secondary healer Crusader does that practically out of the box, leaving your second character to skillmonkey
dirkformica 01-16-07, 12:44 PM	out of curiosity if your party has a cleric RSoP, why do you feel the need to fill a healer role? if you need a tasnk that can double as a secondary healer Crusader does that practically out of the box, leaving your second character to skillmonkey No access to Crusader (that's Tome of Battle, right?) And the RSoP won't be available for the first few sessions (we all take turns DMing and it's his turn.)