Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blodbad 07-12-04, 11:54 AM	My DM only allows 2 core classes, together with 1 prc to counter powergaming builds. But as a counter to that, I would need you guys to give me some ideas of powerful builds, not exceeding the requisite. He only accepts classes from: PhB, Forgotten Realms, Complete warrior, DMG, Book of exalted deeds, Book of vile darkness and Complete divine. Only standard races from the Forgotten realms setting are allowed, and we use a 28 ptbuy. Any ideas? Please respond :)
samoosa691 07-12-04, 11:59 AM	post what kind of character you want to play and we'll help out...
Blodbad 07-12-04, 12:11 PM	Gottcha. Btw: ptbuy reduced to 25 =\
Blodbad 07-12-04, 12:16 PM	Gottcha. Btw: ptbuy reduced to 25 =\ I usually play melee characters, so why not make another one of those.. I wanna keep away from religious characters (such as clerics and the like) cuz I just cant handle the crap. So yeah, something in the front of the battle, swinging with his huge axe, or a tactical fighter. An archer could work well too, but only as a second choice.
carnivore 07-12-04, 12:35 PM	ranger6/barbarian1/Runescared Berserker10/+3more ranger or barbarian gives you lost of rage ,5th lvl arcane spls(limited to 7 scars active at a time),good skills....etc. allows both arcane spls and divine spls allowing use of wands etc...
carnivore 07-12-04, 12:40 PM	how about using ranger as a base then add any 10 lvl PrC that either advances caster lvl or gives seperate spl list,then combine with any other base class that compliments it(covers any weaknesses).
CrimsonRyoko 07-12-04, 12:40 PM	25pt buy sucks for this idea, but it matches your DM's max well. ArcaneClass/DivineClass/Mystic Theurge - thou you said you want a fighter and to stay away from religion - but a Shugenja/Sorcerer can be fun if you do indeed decide to go with magic using class. Very versitile, and with the books your allowed you can be pretty darn powerful. Practiced SpellcasterX2 Spellcasting Prodigy (Cha) [In players guide to faerun its stat based not class, and both classes rely on Cha] Spell Thematics for Sorc Spell Penetration/Greater Eschew Materials And if the Planar Handbook is allowed Nonverbal spell can be fun, that way you can make it look like your just screaming really loud and then a spell goes off. Just another chime in :)
carnivore 07-12-04, 02:08 PM	wiz8/pal2/eldrich knight10 BAB 16 cast20(with practiced cast) cast 9th lvl arcane
Caelic 07-12-04, 04:11 PM	Given the stipulations you've listed, a straight Druid's really going to shine. I'm not sure if you'd consider that a "religious" character in the same sense as a Cleric; I've found that it's quite possible to downplay actual religion with a Druid.
Caelic 07-12-04, 04:17 PM	Originally posted by carnivore wiz8/pal2/eldrich knight10 BAB 16 cast20(with practiced cast) cast 9th lvl arcane Why in the world would you go with Paladin in this build? Take Fighter instead and get some much-needed feats.
amalcon 07-12-04, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by Caelic Why in the world would you go with Paladin in this build? Take Fighter instead and get some much-needed feats. saves.
Caelic 07-12-04, 04:49 PM	Saves? Where in the world is a Gish-type character going to find points for Charisma in a 25-point build?
carnivore 07-12-04, 05:09 PM	magic items
Caelic 07-12-04, 08:16 PM	Err...so let me see if I understand correctly. You're proposing two levels of Paladin, giving up two caster levels, purely for an ability which allows you to add a nonexistent Charisma bonus to saves, and then spending large amounts of money on a magic item to BOOST that Charisma--all to get a +2 or +3 to saving throws. I suppose you CAN do it. I just don't see why in the world you'd want to when there are so many more efficient uses for those two levels and that money.
mellowship 07-12-04, 09:33 PM	Originally posted by carnivore wiz8/pal2/eldrich knight10 BAB 16 cast20(with practiced cast) cast 9th lvl arcane Paladin/Sorcerer would be better. That way you only have one stat to pump (Cha). If you're set on being a Wizard, Fighter would be better to combine with. Or, you could be a Sun Elf Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 7/Bladesinger 10. Pump that Int to the skies and make it do triple duty.
carnivore 07-12-04, 09:50 PM	actually i would rather get 2 lvls of ranger, but i would prefer to have bonuses to saves.the reason i suggested wiz over sorc is that with 17 spl caster levels only wiz gives 9th lvl spls(arcane). at lvl 20 i would probably have the magic item from the mini handbook (belt of magnificence..i think)it gives +6 to all atributes simultaneously, thus putting all my saves at +6, +3 to att, +3 to AC, +3 to all skills, for 200,000gp(less as i would make it with craft wondrous item).
roguebfl 07-12-04, 10:11 PM	Nice Simple Ranger10/HorizonWalker10
Matt Neuman 07-13-04, 01:20 AM	Strictly speaking a straight druid will usually give you the most bang for your buck with a 25 pt. buy, since your physical stats are more or less irrelevant once you pick up wild shape.
roguebfl 07-13-04, 01:47 AM	Originally posted by Matt Neuman Strictly speaking a straight druid will usually give you the most bang for your buck with a 25 pt. buy, since your physical stats are more or less irrelevant once you pick up wild shape. make sure you get Natrual Casting (WIS 13) to go with it though.
Caelic 07-13-04, 02:47 AM	Originally posted by carnivore actually i would rather get 2 lvls of ranger, but i would prefer to have bonuses to saves.the reason i suggested wiz over sorc is that with 17 spl caster levels only wiz gives 9th lvl spls(arcane). at lvl 20 i would probably have the magic item from the mini handbook (belt of magnificence..i think)it gives +6 to all atributes simultaneously, thus putting all my saves at +6, +3 to att, +3 to AC, +3 to all skills, for 200,000gp(less as i would make it with craft wondrous item). You have to GET there, first! What you will or won't have at 20th level is pretty irrelevant if you die at first level, or third, or fifth...and even if you manage to survive, it's not much fun to be weak for 19 levels while promising yourself "I'll kick butt once I get to 20th level." Taking two levels that are going to remain useless throughout most of your career on the grounds that when you get to 20th level, they'll give you a minor benefit (and an extra +3 to your saves IS a minor benefit at that level) just isn't optimal, IMO. Take the fighter levels, because the feats will be useful throughout your career. If you really need the extra save bonuses when level 20 rolls around, get a Cloak of Resistance.
Blodbad 07-13-04, 09:25 AM	Really true, what you said. We start at level 1, and even worse, my DM is running a really low-powered magic campaign =\ I thought of doing Dwarf Fighter/Dwarven Defender, cuz now the restrictions are ONLY PhB AND DMG !!!! I was totally shocked, and he will strike down at all possible powergaming issues, whatever they might be.... So this does not look bright from my point of view... But what would be a sensible dwarven defender build? Or a druid sounds kinda cool, but I dont like spellcasters, so it would have to be a shapechanger of some sort.
Gol 07-13-04, 09:57 AM	All Druids are shapeshifters after level 5 (?) or so... IMO, they're also the best choice for low-power, low-magic campaigns. Very low reliance on magic items. Take Craft Wonderous Item and make a few for yourself if you need to. No dependance on arcane stuff. 3 tank stats if you can keep yourself out of melee combat till you can shapeshift. I'm in a low-to-no magic campaign right now myself, and my backup character is a straight Druid. edit: you can also age your Druid (per the rules) to gain bonuses to Int/Wis/Cha since Str/Dex/Con are dump stats anyway.
Lowinor 07-13-04, 10:24 AM	Another vote for druid. With just PHB/DMG (MM I assume as well, at least for wildshaping and summoning?), druids are probably the most powerful all-around class at most levels. Don't need much in the way of a pointbuy -- 25 pointbuy will still get you 18 wis, 12 con, 10 (something), 9 everything else, which isn't bad for a druid -- physical stats won't mean a whole lot past 5th when you can wildshape. Up until then, just keep your distance. Spell focus: Conjuration (pre-req for Augment Summoning), Augment Summoning, and Natural Spell are good starting feats. With the limitations on the campaign, you'll probably be one of the top powered players until 5th and be head and shoulders over the non-druids at 5th -- then you get wildshape and the ability to summon dire wolves.
Merbeast 07-13-04, 10:46 AM	25 point buy melee with no religion, and core only? Err, definately a Dwarven Fighter/Dwarven Defender tripper with a spiked chain. Show your DM how broken just core can be, and maybe he'll let you use non-core again.
TexasFriedCriminal 07-13-04, 10:58 AM	Since your DM seems to want to put a lot of effort into having no power gaming (he should not use D&D in that case, but that's another point) then why do you persist in wanting to power game? You should maybe look for a different DM.
Blodbad 07-13-04, 11:03 AM	Hehe, I guess he would =) But AGAIN, he has changed the stuff at his campaign (gaaah..) Now all books are allowed, and we get a 28ptbuy. Hope he'll make up his mind soon, this is getting on my nerves... But anyways, I consider playing a Dwarf, who is gonna get the Dwarven Defender prc. Stats would be like: str 15 dex 12 con 17 int 13 wis 10 cha 7 or something like that. (hrhrhr cha :p) Is there a way of making a better tank, out of 2 core classes, and 1 prc? (I guess ftr/barb/dd would do it, but imo fighter/barb dont really fit in together roleplay-wise) Any suggestions? (just gimme something to chew at, it doesnt have to be a dwarf dd, I'm open for new ideas anyway)
phoenixnemo 07-13-04, 11:44 AM	go with: fighter/barbarian/frenzied berserker:D
Gol 07-13-04, 11:47 AM	Your DM needs a spine. Lay the rules and stick to them. However, if you're now back to more options, I'd second the vote for a Tripping character. Check out this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163005) thread for the build. It's not always about damage, that character proves why.
TerrickTerran 07-13-04, 11:55 AM	I'd go with the Fighter/Defender one. But man, that DM would get on my nerves real quick.
Blodbad 07-13-04, 12:12 PM	Hehehe u bet =) The thing is that i don't really like the XX core classes combined with XX PrC's, but I still like having simple, strong characters. Therefore I want a small build, which can be effective in battle, but also has a potential when it comes to roleplaying. But it seems like my DM finally made up his mind, and permitted all the standard books (but no oriental adventures or unapproachable east). And another (imo silly rule) is that chain spike is not allowed, and combat brute seems banned too. A trip-character without chain spike would be dull... And the guy above, who stated the FB (im too lazy to quote) as a character choice; I recently played such a character, so I wanna try something else this time.
Caelic 07-13-04, 12:24 PM	Actually, a trip character can work fine without the spiked chain...it's just that the spiked chain is the no-brainer weapon of choice for the build. EWP: Spiked Chain can fairly easily be replaced by Quick Draw. Carry a backup weapon for when they step inside your reach. A Druid who refuses to use spells except to enhance his hand-to-hand abilities could be an interesting character, though.
phoenixnemo 07-13-04, 12:28 PM	go for dual wield kusari-gama they are from the DMG can trip, have reach as SC 1d6 dmg, exotic light weapon :D
Caelic 07-13-04, 12:33 PM	Err...if the DM's banned the spiked chain, I doubt he's going to allow Spiked Chain Junior.
Gol 07-13-04, 12:34 PM	Won't let you use a spiked chain? WTH... Carry it around anyway. Chains are part of life. Prisons, large gates, etc. Screw that. Tell your DM he needs to come up with a reason to not allow it. Not allowing certain classes and PrCs makes sense. Not allowing something that exists in the world anyway is plain stupid. :rant: Heh, or use a Chain Lash. Same thing, only more versatile, but less damage. You can find it in Savage Species for sure, I think it's in Arms & Equipment too. Basically a normal chain with heavy weights on the ends that you sling around. Again, your DM needs a logical reason to explain why something like this wouldn't exist in his world. I wouldn't play with a DM that said "no, you can't use that chain on the ground as a weapon." I'd have a few choice words for him I probably shouldn't post. Anyway, it's a straight Fighter 20 build, as per the link I gave you previously. The feats are spread out among different books, and the build can be optimized more by taking levels of other classes as well. It was done as a straight fighter to prove a point, not to be 100% optimized.
Caelic 07-13-04, 12:38 PM	Gol, The DM's well within his rights to say, "No, in my world, the chain isn't the single most effective weapon in the universe." Logically, if fighting with a chain was as effective as they've made it in third edition, all you'd ever see is chain-fighters and the occasional damage-lover wielding a two-handed sword. Chances are, what the DM will say if such an "in your face" approach is taken is, "Fine. You whack at him with the chain. It does 1d6 damage and has no special abilities. Roll."
magnafides 07-13-04, 12:46 PM	Originally posted by Caelic Actually, a trip character can work fine without the spiked chain...it's just that the spiked chain is the no-brainer weapon of choice for the build. EWP: Spiked Chain can fairly easily be replaced by Quick Draw. Carry a backup weapon for when they step inside your reach. or Improved Unarmed Strike. Use kicks for adjacent enemies.