2 free levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

2 free levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ummyeah
09-06-05, 01:54 AM Disclaimer: I haven't been reading the boards for more than a week or so, so if this idea has been discussed before I apologize.

Ok, so I'm looking through the forum and the half-golem/incarnate construct idea got me thinking. How about giving the template to a warforged? This should give the PC 2 "free" levels wouldn't it? How awesome would a wizard that goes epic 2 levels early be? Really, any class would benefit just fantastically. How about starting with 3rd level abilities and HD at 1st level? The benefits would be just completely awesome.
Of course, there could be some abuses (like that's a bad thing). For example: level normally through 4th level so that you get your feat and +1 ability, then take the template, go down to 2nd level, go back up to 4th and get your feat and +1 again. There's probably a rule against it and I doubt any DM would allow it, but it's a cool thought.
PhaedrusXY
09-06-05, 02:15 AM It's been discussed. :D Yes, technically it is a good idea, but like you said, good luck finding a DM that will allow it. The template is also nice to apply to the Maugs from the Fiend Folio. They are intelligent constructs with like 3 hit dice and a +2 LA, and some nice abilities. If I were DMing, I might let an Incarnate Maug slip by, but I don't think I'd let a Warforged. Having an ECL below your actual number of hit dice is just blasphemous! :rofl:
X-Codes
09-06-05, 02:22 AM I don't understand how this works, as neither template changes the HD of the base creature. Yes, the Level Adjustment of a golem would be reduced by 2 from the Incarnate Construct template, but that wouldn't cause the creature to spontaneously gain 2 levels, especially since you are applying the half-golem template that increaces ECL by at least 3. (Changes in ECL are always as large or larger than CR increaces.)

You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil).
Milo HoBo
09-06-05, 03:42 AM You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil).

Yes it does.
X-Codes
09-06-05, 03:52 AM Yes it does.

Haha, ok... Using Thought Bottle makes you (as a human being) evil, but it has no effect on your in-game character. =P

Anyway, any half-baked scheme to get free levels will be rejected by a sane DM. Therefore, I honestly don't see any reason to think of them.
slade_caizer
09-06-05, 05:53 AM but it has no effect on your in-game character.It's been known to cause cancer, diabetes, and still birth. Also the majority of cases are met with outright death--often from a falling cow.

Tell me these aren't relatively serious in-game consequences.
ummyeah
09-06-05, 08:29 AM I don't understand how this works, as neither template changes the HD of the base creature. Yes, the Level Adjustment of a golem would be reduced by 2 from the Incarnate Construct template, but that wouldn't cause the creature to spontaneously gain 2 levels, especially since you are applying the half-golem template that increaces ECL by at least 3. (Changes in ECL are always as large or larger than CR increaces.)

You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil).

If you were to apply it in-game, you wouldn't spontaneously gain two levels. What would happen is that your effective level would go down by two levels, but your experience would stay at the level of the two levels that you "lost", thus the next time you gained experience, you would have enough to go to the next level, and the next time you gained experience after that, you would automatically have enough to go up another level.

More practically, you would apply it during character construction. Create a 3rd level warforged, apply the template, instant 1st level critter.

The thing you're missing is that there is no need to apply the half-golem template to a warforged, they're already constructs :) .
WizardlyFriend
09-06-05, 09:12 AM i dont understand the thought bottle abuse, could someone please explain it to me.
Part-Human2
09-06-05, 12:08 PM Incarnate Construct is LA -2 (Minimum 0) so no you don't get free levels. The best you might accomplish is +2 LA of previously acquired templates removed.

Maug are 2 HD + 3 LA.
Khazra Reborn
09-06-05, 12:50 PM Incarnate Construct is LA -2 (Minimum 0) so no you don't get free levels. The best you might accomplish is +2 LA of previously acquired templates removed.
Although, to be fair, you can still do some pretty horrific things with that 2 LA....even more so if you have LA buy off. half fey white-dragonspawn half celestial is pretty sweet once youve bought off that +2LA! Total stat mods of
str:+4
dex:+4
con:+6
int:+2
cha:+8
wis:+4
total:+28
& flight, NA & casts as a 1st level sorcerer. If theres a sicker race for a sorcerer/sorcerer based gish i haven't found it.

Likewise, a feral mineral warrior half celestial has huge stat mods (+10 str & con).

Note that this is without even attempting the sicko half minotaur etc.
ummyeah
09-06-05, 02:05 PM Although, to be fair, you can still do some pretty horrific things with that 2 LA....even more so if you have LA buy off. half fey white-dragonspawn half celestial is pretty sweet once youve bought off that +2LA! Total stat mods of
str:+4
dex:+4
con:+6
int:+2
cha:+8
wis:+4
total:+28
& flight, NA & casts as a 1st level sorcerer. If theres a sicker race for a sorcerer/sorcerer based gish i haven't found it.

Likewise, a feral mineral warrior half celestial has huge stat mods (+10 str & con).

Note that this is without even attempting the sicko half minotaur etc.

Actually, the problem with that is that the half-whatever and feral templates are inherited and must be taken before applying the incarnate construct template. The problem with this is that they cannot be applied to constructs. So, the only templates that you could combine with this would be either inherited templates that apply to constructs and don't change the creatures type or aquired templates that apply to humanoids. In the first case, you probably wouldn't want to apply the template anyway, since the incarnate construct template specifically removes all special attacks and special qualities. In theory, you could apply an aquired template that applies to constructs, but you wouldn't want to do that for the same reason as an inherited template. Thus, the only templates that can be practically applied is aquired templates that apply to humanoids.
Fwib
09-06-05, 02:19 PM Half-fey is LA+2, isn't it? Are you thinking of Feytouched?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ummyeah 09-06-05, 01:54 AM	Disclaimer: I haven't been reading the boards for more than a week or so, so if this idea has been discussed before I apologize. Ok, so I'm looking through the forum and the half-golem/incarnate construct idea got me thinking. How about giving the template to a warforged? This should give the PC 2 "free" levels wouldn't it? How awesome would a wizard that goes epic 2 levels early be? Really, any class would benefit just fantastically. How about starting with 3rd level abilities and HD at 1st level? The benefits would be just completely awesome. Of course, there could be some abuses (like that's a bad thing). For example: level normally through 4th level so that you get your feat and +1 ability, then take the template, go down to 2nd level, go back up to 4th and get your feat and +1 again. There's probably a rule against it and I doubt any DM would allow it, but it's a cool thought.
PhaedrusXY 09-06-05, 02:15 AM	It's been discussed. :D Yes, technically it is a good idea, but like you said, good luck finding a DM that will allow it. The template is also nice to apply to the Maugs from the Fiend Folio. They are intelligent constructs with like 3 hit dice and a +2 LA, and some nice abilities. If I were DMing, I might let an Incarnate Maug slip by, but I don't think I'd let a Warforged. Having an ECL below your actual number of hit dice is just blasphemous! :rofl:
X-Codes 09-06-05, 02:22 AM	I don't understand how this works, as neither template changes the HD of the base creature. Yes, the Level Adjustment of a golem would be reduced by 2 from the Incarnate Construct template, but that wouldn't cause the creature to spontaneously gain 2 levels, especially since you are applying the half-golem template that increaces ECL by at least 3. (Changes in ECL are always as large or larger than CR increaces.) You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil).
Milo HoBo 09-06-05, 03:42 AM	You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil). Yes it does.
X-Codes 09-06-05, 03:52 AM	Yes it does. Haha, ok... Using Thought Bottle makes you (as a human being) evil, but it has no effect on your in-game character. =P Anyway, any half-baked scheme to get free levels will be rejected by a sane DM. Therefore, I honestly don't see any reason to think of them.
slade_caizer 09-06-05, 05:53 AM	but it has no effect on your in-game character.It's been known to cause cancer, diabetes, and still birth. Also the majority of cases are met with outright death--often from a falling cow. Tell me these aren't relatively serious in-game consequences.
ummyeah 09-06-05, 08:29 AM	I don't understand how this works, as neither template changes the HD of the base creature. Yes, the Level Adjustment of a golem would be reduced by 2 from the Incarnate Construct template, but that wouldn't cause the creature to spontaneously gain 2 levels, especially since you are applying the half-golem template that increaces ECL by at least 3. (Changes in ECL are always as large or larger than CR increaces.) You would just confuse any DM you went to with this... Thought Bottle is a much less complicated process (and doesn't make you evil). If you were to apply it in-game, you wouldn't spontaneously gain two levels. What would happen is that your effective level would go down by two levels, but your experience would stay at the level of the two levels that you "lost", thus the next time you gained experience, you would have enough to go to the next level, and the next time you gained experience after that, you would automatically have enough to go up another level. More practically, you would apply it during character construction. Create a 3rd level warforged, apply the template, instant 1st level critter. The thing you're missing is that there is no need to apply the half-golem template to a warforged, they're already constructs :) .
WizardlyFriend 09-06-05, 09:12 AM	i dont understand the thought bottle abuse, could someone please explain it to me.
Part-Human2 09-06-05, 12:08 PM	Incarnate Construct is LA -2 (Minimum 0) so no you don't get free levels. The best you might accomplish is +2 LA of previously acquired templates removed. Maug are 2 HD + 3 LA.
Khazra Reborn 09-06-05, 12:50 PM	Incarnate Construct is LA -2 (Minimum 0) so no you don't get free levels. The best you might accomplish is +2 LA of previously acquired templates removed. Although, to be fair, you can still do some pretty horrific things with that 2 LA....even more so if you have LA buy off. half fey white-dragonspawn half celestial is pretty sweet once youve bought off that +2LA! Total stat mods of str:+4 dex:+4 con:+6 int:+2 cha:+8 wis:+4 total:+28 & flight, NA & casts as a 1st level sorcerer. If theres a sicker race for a sorcerer/sorcerer based gish i haven't found it. Likewise, a feral mineral warrior half celestial has huge stat mods (+10 str & con). Note that this is without even attempting the sicko half minotaur etc.
ummyeah 09-06-05, 02:05 PM	Although, to be fair, you can still do some pretty horrific things with that 2 LA....even more so if you have LA buy off. half fey white-dragonspawn half celestial is pretty sweet once youve bought off that +2LA! Total stat mods of str:+4 dex:+4 con:+6 int:+2 cha:+8 wis:+4 total:+28 & flight, NA & casts as a 1st level sorcerer. If theres a sicker race for a sorcerer/sorcerer based gish i haven't found it. Likewise, a feral mineral warrior half celestial has huge stat mods (+10 str & con). Note that this is without even attempting the sicko half minotaur etc. Actually, the problem with that is that the half-whatever and feral templates are inherited and must be taken before applying the incarnate construct template. The problem with this is that they cannot be applied to constructs. So, the only templates that you could combine with this would be either inherited templates that apply to constructs and don't change the creatures type or aquired templates that apply to humanoids. In the first case, you probably wouldn't want to apply the template anyway, since the incarnate construct template specifically removes all special attacks and special qualities. In theory, you could apply an aquired template that applies to constructs, but you wouldn't want to do that for the same reason as an inherited template. Thus, the only templates that can be practically applied is aquired templates that apply to humanoids.
Fwib 09-06-05, 02:19 PM	Half-fey is LA+2, isn't it? Are you thinking of Feytouched?