20/20 by 20 [Archive] - Wizards Community

20/20 by 20 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
\/1[]D3|2
01-07-05, 11:00 PM Hi there, I know it's possible to get CL 20 in both arcane and divine with a combination of sor (or wiz) 9/ur-priest 2/mystic theurge 9, but can anyone explain to me the reasoning behind the UP and MT? I plan on building a character like this for the campaign I'm in, and I need to understand why the build is at it is. Thank you for your time :).
Elgonn
01-07-05, 11:12 PM Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/MyTh 9 is not CL 20 in both.

CL 18 arcane &
CL 15 divine or CL 20 divine. It depends on how you count the bonus granted from 'other spellcasting levels'. As in reference to caster level or class levels.

You can use the practiced spellcaster feat to manipulate the above (depending on how you rule Ur-Priest caster level progression).

btw.. Almost anything 5/Chameleon 10 has CL 20 arcane/divine.
\/1[]D3|2
01-08-05, 12:08 AM I'm looking for something sort of unique, and we already have a Chameleon in the party, so I'd prefer it if that class was out. My DM had the build memorized, but I haven't been able to get a hold of him lately, so I can't talk to him about it. Anybody else remember what it is?
NateNate
01-08-05, 09:26 AM Try Wizard 10/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8
Take Practiced Spellcaster for Wizard, and you get:
Wizard: CL 20 (18 levels, +2 Practiced Spellcaster)
Ur-Priest: CL 20 (10 levels, +1/2 of Wizard)
You get spells known/spells per day as a 10th level Ur-Priest and as an 18th level Wizard. If you go epic, I'd suggest taking Practiced Spellcaster for Ur-Priest (pre-epic) and going into Archmage since epic MT sucks.
DNDGuroMaster
01-08-05, 09:44 AM ANy chance you can make a Ghesalt character?
Wizard 20/Cleric 20 would be an awesome build if your dm allows Ghesalt characters.
\/1[]D3|2
01-08-05, 11:41 AM I've tried talking to my DM about gestalt, and if he allows it, that's what I'd do, but he doesn't seem entirely sold on the idea. I'm hoping he can talk to the other players about it, and in the next campaign we'll go gestalt. Thanks for all the replies though:).
Caelic
01-08-05, 10:50 PM For a bit of flavor, try:

Bard 6/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/XXX 1/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8

"XXX" can be pretty much anything; season to taste.

This nets you ninth level arcane spells, with a CL of 17, and ninth level divine spells, with a caster level of 14, by the strictest interpretation of the rules. A more generous reading of Ur-Priest results in a caster level of 17 for bard and SC, and 27 for Ur-Priest.

Assuming the more conservative total, Practiced Spellcaster can kick the levels up to 20 and 18, respectively. Song of Arcane Power can boost that still more.

You also wind up with considerably more special abilities and skills than allowed by the typical MyTh build.
Naja
01-09-05, 07:16 AM Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/MyTh 9 is not CL 20 in both.

btw.. Almost anything 5/Chameleon 10 has CL 20 arcane/divine.

I seem to have missed that already.
So let´s see: A Wizard 5/Cleric5/Chameleon 9/True Necro1 would have a Necromancy caster level of 47. If only he could do something useful with that...
Grim Sage
01-09-05, 07:35 AM Too bad the True Necro was updated in Libris Mortis to not let you add the two caster levels; instead it gives a MyTh-like spell progression and some nice abilities
sparkster4242
01-09-05, 09:31 PM V:
are you asking for mechanics, or personality?

mechanically speaking, a pair of Practised Spellcaster feats can bring your caster-levels up to 20/19 with either Wiz 9/ UP 2/ MT 9 or Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 8.
arcane: 9 (Wiz) + 9 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20 or 10 (Wiz) + 8 (MT + 2 (PS) = 20
divine: 2 (UP) + .5(9) (Wiz) + 9 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 19 or 2 (UP) + .5(10) (Wiz) + 8 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 19

offhand, i dont see how you could get 20/20 with these classes before level 20 unless you used an ioun stone to boost your caster-level, or did something really cheesy like lose two levels of Wizard (via level-drain) to make room for two more levels of MT ... Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 2/ Wiz -2/ MT 8 would have
arcane: 8 (Wiz) + 10 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20
divine: 2 (UP) + .5(8) (Wiz) + 10 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 20
of course, even on the Optimization boards, people tend to take a dim view of using level-drain as a build tool...

natenate:
Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 8 with Practised Spellcaster:Wizard has caster levels:
arcane: 10 (Wiz) + 8 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20
divine: 2 (UP) + .5(10) (Wiz) + 8 (MT) = 15

the Ur-Priest gains an extra half caster-level boost from levels in other spellcasting classes, not other caster-levels.
the only spellcasting classes in this build are Wizard and Ur-Priest.
Azinor
01-10-05, 05:19 AM You can also try a more classic approach :

Cleric3/Wizard3/Mystic Theurge10/True Necromancer4
with practiced spellcaster in both arcane and divine.

It would give you a CL of 20 in both spellcasting classes but only access to 8th lvl spells divine and arcane.

It rocks if you go epic because you can go on taking MT and have access to 9th lvl divine and arcane spells at character lvl 21
PhaedrusXY
01-10-05, 07:27 AM You can also try a more classic approach :

Cleric3/Wizard3/Mystic Theurge10/True Necromancer4
with practiced spellcaster in both arcane and divine.

It would give you a CL of 20 in both spellcasting classes but only access to 8th lvl spells divine and arcane.

It rocks if you go epic because you can go on taking MT and have access to 9th lvl divine and arcane spells at character lvl 21Personally, I'd rather just take all True Necromancer levels and drop the Mystic Theurge totally, if you're using the new True Necro in Libris Mortis. I'd only consider taking the Mystic Theurge levels in Epic. But even then, I'd rather come up with an Epic continuation of True Necromancer than take Mystic Theurge levels.

I realize you lose another caster level in each class for doing this, but the True Necromancer abilities offset this in my mind, especially Necromantic Prowess. It's just too bad that Blasphemy isn't a Necromancy spell. :P
Nazarene
02-02-05, 08:36 PM Err, this will definitely sound n00bish to you all here, but what book does the Ur-Priest come from? :embarrass
Caelic
02-02-05, 08:43 PM Err, this will definitely sound n00bish to you all here, but what book does the Ur-Priest come from? :embarrass

Most recently, Complete Divine...but I warn you of the consequences should you use it. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. ;)
PhoenixInferno
02-02-05, 11:02 PM Most recently, Complete Divine...but I warn you of the consequences should you use it. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. ;)

Destroy you, the Dark Side will.
Snicker-Snack
02-02-05, 11:19 PM Destroy you, the Dark Side will.

[Force Persuade]No, it won't.[/Force Persuade]
Timespike
02-03-05, 01:24 AM Practiced Spellcaster.
Neeek
02-03-05, 02:19 AM The Weak, Crappy Way:

10 Wizard/10 Cleric + 10 Orange Ioun Stones.

Yay!
Hawker
02-04-05, 02:37 PM Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader.
fnord
02-04-05, 04:08 PM Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader.

Drd3/Wiz3/MyTh10/ Fochluren Lyrist 4
Use a ring of evasion to qualify for Fochluren Lyrist.
Hymnist or Greensinger Initiate (Eb), or Skill Knowledge (UA) gets you perform.
Gives 17/17 casting; 20/20 can be gotten with Practiced Spellcaster.

Other builds can do even better.
Snicker-Snack
02-04-05, 04:18 PM Drd3/Wiz3/MyTh10/ Fochluren Lyrist 4
Use a ring of evasion to qualify for Fochluren Lyrist.

You are still missing Bardic Knowledge.
Todd
02-04-05, 06:58 PM Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader.

Bard-1 / Wizard-3 / Druid-3 / Mystic Theurge-3 / Divine Oracle-2 / Fochlucan Lyrist-10

Both Druid and Wizard spellcasting are at 17th level. You must split your Divine Oracle levels - 1 to Wizard casting & 1 to Druid.

Edit: Boy was I tired when I made this post! Sorry about the 22 level example! :rolleyes:
Xperiment
02-06-05, 11:52 AM Sorcerer or Wizard 10/Ur-Priest 2/MT 8

lvl 9 casting divine and arcane with Divine CL 19 Arcane CL 18

Not bad, could be better
Aricandor
02-06-05, 02:03 PM Hrrrr... Fear the Ur-Priest. Many a campaign destroy it will :(
Evadyn
02-06-05, 03:07 PM Is there a arcane type Ur-priest?
TerrickTerran
02-06-05, 03:18 PM Closest is Sublime Chord. However you have to make your build set to it. (And have to have a level of bard)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
\/1[]D3\|2 01-07-05, 11:00 PM	Hi there, I know it's possible to get CL 20 in both arcane and divine with a combination of sor (or wiz) 9/ur-priest 2/mystic theurge 9, but can anyone explain to me the reasoning behind the UP and MT? I plan on building a character like this for the campaign I'm in, and I need to understand why the build is at it is. Thank you for your time :).
Elgonn 01-07-05, 11:12 PM	Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/MyTh 9 is not CL 20 in both. CL 18 arcane & CL 15 divine or CL 20 divine. It depends on how you count the bonus granted from 'other spellcasting levels'. As in reference to caster level or class levels. You can use the practiced spellcaster feat to manipulate the above (depending on how you rule Ur-Priest caster level progression). btw.. Almost anything 5/Chameleon 10 has CL 20 arcane/divine.
\/1[]D3\|2 01-08-05, 12:08 AM	I'm looking for something sort of unique, and we already have a Chameleon in the party, so I'd prefer it if that class was out. My DM had the build memorized, but I haven't been able to get a hold of him lately, so I can't talk to him about it. Anybody else remember what it is?
NateNate 01-08-05, 09:26 AM	Try Wizard 10/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8 Take Practiced Spellcaster for Wizard, and you get: Wizard: CL 20 (18 levels, +2 Practiced Spellcaster) Ur-Priest: CL 20 (10 levels, +1/2 of Wizard) You get spells known/spells per day as a 10th level Ur-Priest and as an 18th level Wizard. If you go epic, I'd suggest taking Practiced Spellcaster for Ur-Priest (pre-epic) and going into Archmage since epic MT sucks.
DNDGuroMaster 01-08-05, 09:44 AM	ANy chance you can make a Ghesalt character? Wizard 20/Cleric 20 would be an awesome build if your dm allows Ghesalt characters.
\/1[]D3\|2 01-08-05, 11:41 AM	I've tried talking to my DM about gestalt, and if he allows it, that's what I'd do, but he doesn't seem entirely sold on the idea. I'm hoping he can talk to the other players about it, and in the next campaign we'll go gestalt. Thanks for all the replies though:).
Caelic 01-08-05, 10:50 PM	For a bit of flavor, try: Bard 6/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/XXX 1/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 "XXX" can be pretty much anything; season to taste. This nets you ninth level arcane spells, with a CL of 17, and ninth level divine spells, with a caster level of 14, by the strictest interpretation of the rules. A more generous reading of Ur-Priest results in a caster level of 17 for bard and SC, and 27 for Ur-Priest. Assuming the more conservative total, Practiced Spellcaster can kick the levels up to 20 and 18, respectively. Song of Arcane Power can boost that still more. You also wind up with considerably more special abilities and skills than allowed by the typical MyTh build.
Naja 01-09-05, 07:16 AM	Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/MyTh 9 is not CL 20 in both. btw.. Almost anything 5/Chameleon 10 has CL 20 arcane/divine. I seem to have missed that already. So let´s see: A Wizard 5/Cleric5/Chameleon 9/True Necro1 would have a Necromancy caster level of 47. If only he could do something useful with that...
Grim Sage 01-09-05, 07:35 AM	Too bad the True Necro was updated in Libris Mortis to not let you add the two caster levels; instead it gives a MyTh-like spell progression and some nice abilities
sparkster4242 01-09-05, 09:31 PM	V: are you asking for mechanics, or personality? mechanically speaking, a pair of Practised Spellcaster feats can bring your caster-levels up to 20/19 with either Wiz 9/ UP 2/ MT 9 or Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 8. arcane: 9 (Wiz) + 9 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20 or 10 (Wiz) + 8 (MT + 2 (PS) = 20 divine: 2 (UP) + .5(9) (Wiz) + 9 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 19 or 2 (UP) + .5(10) (Wiz) + 8 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 19 offhand, i dont see how you could get 20/20 with these classes before level 20 unless you used an ioun stone to boost your caster-level, or did something really cheesy like lose two levels of Wizard (via level-drain) to make room for two more levels of MT ... Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 2/ Wiz -2/ MT 8 would have arcane: 8 (Wiz) + 10 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20 divine: 2 (UP) + .5(8) (Wiz) + 10 (MT) + 4 (PS) = 20 of course, even on the Optimization boards, people tend to take a dim view of using level-drain as a build tool... natenate: Wiz 10/ UP 2/ MT 8 with Practised Spellcaster:Wizard has caster levels: arcane: 10 (Wiz) + 8 (MT) + 2 (PS) = 20 divine: 2 (UP) + .5(10) (Wiz) + 8 (MT) = 15 the Ur-Priest gains an extra half caster-level boost from levels in other spellcasting classes, not other caster-levels. the only spellcasting classes in this build are Wizard and Ur-Priest.
Azinor 01-10-05, 05:19 AM	You can also try a more classic approach : Cleric3/Wizard3/Mystic Theurge10/True Necromancer4 with practiced spellcaster in both arcane and divine. It would give you a CL of 20 in both spellcasting classes but only access to 8th lvl spells divine and arcane. It rocks if you go epic because you can go on taking MT and have access to 9th lvl divine and arcane spells at character lvl 21
PhaedrusXY 01-10-05, 07:27 AM	You can also try a more classic approach : Cleric3/Wizard3/Mystic Theurge10/True Necromancer4 with practiced spellcaster in both arcane and divine. It would give you a CL of 20 in both spellcasting classes but only access to 8th lvl spells divine and arcane. It rocks if you go epic because you can go on taking MT and have access to 9th lvl divine and arcane spells at character lvl 21Personally, I'd rather just take all True Necromancer levels and drop the Mystic Theurge totally, if you're using the new True Necro in Libris Mortis. I'd only consider taking the Mystic Theurge levels in Epic. But even then, I'd rather come up with an Epic continuation of True Necromancer than take Mystic Theurge levels. I realize you lose another caster level in each class for doing this, but the True Necromancer abilities offset this in my mind, especially Necromantic Prowess. It's just too bad that Blasphemy isn't a Necromancy spell. :P
Nazarene 02-02-05, 08:36 PM	Err, this will definitely sound n00bish to you all here, but what book does the Ur-Priest come from? :embarrass
Caelic 02-02-05, 08:43 PM	Err, this will definitely sound n00bish to you all here, but what book does the Ur-Priest come from? :embarrass Most recently, Complete Divine...but I warn you of the consequences should you use it. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. ;)
PhoenixInferno 02-02-05, 11:02 PM	Most recently, Complete Divine...but I warn you of the consequences should you use it. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. ;) Destroy you, the Dark Side will.
Snicker-Snack 02-02-05, 11:19 PM	Destroy you, the Dark Side will. [Force Persuade]No, it won't.[/Force Persuade]
Timespike 02-03-05, 01:24 AM	Practiced Spellcaster.
Neeek 02-03-05, 02:19 AM	The Weak, Crappy Way: 10 Wizard/10 Cleric + 10 Orange Ioun Stones. Yay!
Hawker 02-04-05, 02:37 PM	Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader.
fnord 02-04-05, 04:08 PM	Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader. Drd3/Wiz3/MyTh10/ Fochluren Lyrist 4 Use a ring of evasion to qualify for Fochluren Lyrist. Hymnist or Greensinger Initiate (Eb), or Skill Knowledge (UA) gets you perform. Gives 17/17 casting; 20/20 can be gotten with Practiced Spellcaster. Other builds can do even better.
Snicker-Snack 02-04-05, 04:18 PM	Drd3/Wiz3/MyTh10/ Fochluren Lyrist 4 Use a ring of evasion to qualify for Fochluren Lyrist. You are still missing Bardic Knowledge.
Todd 02-04-05, 06:58 PM	Is there a way to be 20/20 (or close to) while being nonevil? And not AoP from BoED and not full access cleric spell list so no Divine Crusader. Bard-1 / Wizard-3 / Druid-3 / Mystic Theurge-3 / Divine Oracle-2 / Fochlucan Lyrist-10 Both Druid and Wizard spellcasting are at 17th level. You must split your Divine Oracle levels - 1 to Wizard casting & 1 to Druid. Edit: Boy was I tired when I made this post! Sorry about the 22 level example! :rolleyes:
Xperiment 02-06-05, 11:52 AM	Sorcerer or Wizard 10/Ur-Priest 2/MT 8 lvl 9 casting divine and arcane with Divine CL 19 Arcane CL 18 Not bad, could be better
Aricandor 02-06-05, 02:03 PM	Hrrrr... Fear the Ur-Priest. Many a campaign destroy it will :(
Evadyn 02-06-05, 03:07 PM	Is there a arcane type Ur-priest?
TerrickTerran 02-06-05, 03:18 PM	Closest is Sublime Chord. However you have to make your build set to it. (And have to have a level of bard)