20th level; AC 80; need I say more? [Archive] - Wizards Community

20th level; AC 80; need I say more? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gastoff
09-30-06, 01:42 AM I was just wondering if anyone else out there have a hobby of creating Uber-Characters. I tend to go overboard when I start designing a high level character. Loop holes and stacking bonuses are things I exploit continuosly to the dismay of those I duel... As for the AC of 80, the breakdown is like this:
Unarmered Porficiency, Focus, Specialization, and Mastery uped the base AC of 10 to a base of 30; +8 Bracers of Armor, +6 Shield, +14 Dex, +11 Wis, +4 Amulet of Natural Armor, +5 Ring of Protection, +1 insight, +1 luck)
Touch AC of 62, FF AC of 66.

This character is a 20th level Swordsage (from the Book of Nine Swords). I am currently trying to create a 20th level monk with an AC of 100+ but every time I get close I realize that I am spending more than the 760,000gp allowed for 20th level PC's.

Any suggestions on nifty, cheap items that can greatly increase a Monk's AC (besides the obvious from the DMG)?

A digital version of this character, Sharn Pax, is viewable here:
http://d20forge.com/contribution/display.html?id=1811
Prominence
09-30-06, 01:47 AM Every character in the 10^10 challenge has 100+ AC.
Gastoff
09-30-06, 01:50 AM where can I find this 10^10 challenge?
Prominence
09-30-06, 01:56 AM in the stickies at the top of the page....

on another note, there's a few builds with infinite AC. Then there's pun-pun, which will make anything you do look like commoner 20.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=292273 specifically has links.
Gastoff
09-30-06, 02:05 AM Is pun-pun a 20th level character? If so, is he legitimate (did not exceed 760,000gp limit, etc.)?
Prominence
09-30-06, 02:09 AM pun-pun is a fourth level character. He requires no items. It's better to read the 1000 or 3000+ pages on him than ask questions.
Elephant Jack
09-30-06, 02:53 AM on another note, there's a few builds with infinite AC. Then there's pun-pun, which will make anything you do look like commoner 20.
Mh, yeah. But if I remind correctly, pun-pun is not a playable character, more of a mind-construct what can be done with DnD.

@Gastoff: The Char-Op boards can be downright confusing... the probably most useful thread might be Surreal's Some handy links for CO work (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636). Here you find nearly every thread of importance...

Btw for your build, there are the monk's tattooes from Magic of Faerūn - they work like a monk's belt (no item space, though!) and increase your monk level by 4 for calculating monk abilities. By the way, if you add in some Combat Expertise + Improved Combat Expertise + Tumble 5+ rnks + defensive fighting, you add a whooping +33 to AC if you sac all your BAB at 20th level.

Hope this helps
EJ
runestar
09-30-06, 05:56 AM Mh, yeah. But if I remind correctly, pun-pun is not a playable character, more of a mind-construct what can be done with DnD.
Oh, he's playable. About as playable as a solar in a 1st lv campaign.;)

Amazing!:eek: The OP got shot down with narry a sweat! Ah...the high standards this board inevitably ends up setting....:cool:
Slyver
09-30-06, 09:28 AM It can be very fun to find out what you can do within the DnD ruleset. This is the CO board however, which means, you are talking to people, the majority of which, have been doing it continuously for years. Not only that, but they have been collaborating on their exploits for years as well. What this means is, 80 AC is not overly impressive. However, it doesn't mean to get discouraged. The more time you spend here the more you will learn. Hopefully, it will also teach you that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. It is our responsibility as players to maintain a balance with our character. Pushing the envelope is fine, pushing it until it breaks is not.

As for your build itself, I have a few questions.

Unarmered Porficiency, Focus, Specialization, and Mastery uped the base AC of 10 to a base of 30;

I know quite a bit, and I have nfc what this means. Can you break this down further?

+8 Bracers of Armor, +6 Shield, +14 Dex, +11 Wis, +4 Amulet of Natural Armor,... ...This character is a 20th level Swordsage...

The AC bonus from swordsage works only when you are wearing light armor (unarmored does NOT count) and not using a shield.

I am not sure how you are getting a +14 dex mod. You didn't say what race you are, but assuming human getting a 38 dex isn't easy. There must be something to your build besides just swordsage levels, or something to your equipment that is "custom".

Again, don't get discouraged.

Slyver
Repeekluos
09-30-06, 11:03 AM Slyver: I thought that cust-serv ruled that SS ac bonus works in or out of light armor.
NoldorForce
09-30-06, 11:09 AM Unarmored Proficiency and so forth are apparently from some AEG book called Book of Feats. The build itself has this comment.Another character I have designed that exploits the overpowered feats found in Unofficial Sources. I would never allow these feats to be taken in my campaign, but they are fun to use to create that Uber-PC...

Additionally, Customer Service has stated that the intent of the Swordsage's AC bonus is to be allowed with no armor.

Stuff on the CO Boards is generally set up to be ECL 20; this build, as it incorporates a githzerai, goes slightly beyond that to ECL 22. It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but is a useful guideline.
HaikenEdge
09-30-06, 11:15 AM pun-pun is a fourth level character. He requires no items. It's better to read the 1000 or 3000+ pages on him than ask questions.
Actually, due to some work, Pun-Pun is actually now a 1st level human ardent build who starts off naked. And there's only 54 pages or so.
Slyver
09-30-06, 11:34 AM Unarmored Proficiency and so forth are apparently from some AEG book called Book of Feats. The build itself has this comment.

I guess I should have looked at the link. :)

Additionally, Customer Service has stated that the intent of the Swordsage's AC bonus is to be allowed with no armor.

CS stuff is imo total bunk for reasons I will not go into at this time, however; if it does end up being true (in errata) this could make for some easily game breaking monk/swordsage builds unless they put in a no stacking stipulation.

Stuff on the CO Boards is generally set up to be ECL 20; this build, as it incorporates a githzerai, goes slightly beyond that to ECL 22. It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but is a useful guideline.

It is a pretty hard-and-fast rule actually, at least when stating what a build can do. Without the ECL 20 build limit there can be no standard for comparison and the concept of comparison becomes meaningless. However, with LA buyoff (which was not stated but is certainly within the rules if it is stated) the build can be ECL 20.

As for those feats of which I have no desire to know what they do, comparison builds on this board go by WotC published material only. I can bring in a feat that my friend made up and get an AC of 25,487 as a first level commoner, but I don't think that would be very useful to anyone else.

This board has standards. You can post anything you want, but it will be seen as ludicrous and will be ridiculed unless those standards are followed. While it may seem silly and close-minded, it is necessary for the things on this board to retain any semblance of credibility, since often, by their very nature, they are pushing what can be conceived of as credible.

Slyver
Repeekluos
09-30-06, 11:36 AM Slyver: They have already been put into the "no stacking" category. Again, by CS.
Kresalak
09-30-06, 12:31 PM Who has the link to Otto's 300+ AC build?
Prominence
09-30-06, 12:33 PM refer to previous link I posted in this very thread.
Elessar Lespin
09-30-06, 01:41 PM Foolish mortal.
You should have known that anything posted by a newbie in this forum
inevitably engenders one of two pre-programmed responses.

First:

newbie: OMG LOOK GUYS! I came up with this awesome build that does
<insert build cheese here>

forum sage: *yawn* Your build is pathetic. I can do better in my sleep.
My grandmother could do better. And she's dead! In fact your build has
already been outdone two years ago by the <uber cheese build>
which can be linked from here <link to said uber cheese build>.

newbie: *tear* But... but... I thought I had done good!

forum sage: SILENCE pathetic newblet. Crawl back into the vile pit from
whence thee came!

newbie: *retires in tears*

Second:

newbie: Hey guys check out this uber-leet build I just came up with.
It gives me a <ludicrous integer> bonus to my Str!

forum sage: *invokes the use of the extraordinary ability 'I'm Right/You're Wrong'*

forum sage: Actually if you will take careful note, I will now educate you on
what it means to be a TRUE optimizer. If you will please reference the
PHBII Pg. 97, Article 2, Subsection 3, Paragraph 4 I'm sure you will see
that your build is not only impossible, but also utterly worthless in every
way. Retreat now in shame or prepare to be ridiculed by the members of
this forum at large!

newbie: *speechless*
Tshern
09-30-06, 07:19 PM Actually, due to some work, Pun-Pun is actually now a 1st level human ardent build who starts off naked. And there's only 54 pages or so.
Was that a joke or what? If that's actually true, do you happen to have a link? I've only saved the one to the original Pun-Pun thread.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gastoff 09-30-06, 01:42 AM	I was just wondering if anyone else out there have a hobby of creating Uber-Characters. I tend to go overboard when I start designing a high level character. Loop holes and stacking bonuses are things I exploit continuosly to the dismay of those I duel... As for the AC of 80, the breakdown is like this: Unarmered Porficiency, Focus, Specialization, and Mastery uped the base AC of 10 to a base of 30; +8 Bracers of Armor, +6 Shield, +14 Dex, +11 Wis, +4 Amulet of Natural Armor, +5 Ring of Protection, +1 insight, +1 luck) Touch AC of 62, FF AC of 66. This character is a 20th level Swordsage (from the Book of Nine Swords). I am currently trying to create a 20th level monk with an AC of 100+ but every time I get close I realize that I am spending more than the 760,000gp allowed for 20th level PC's. Any suggestions on nifty, cheap items that can greatly increase a Monk's AC (besides the obvious from the DMG)? A digital version of this character, Sharn Pax, is viewable here: http://d20forge.com/contribution/display.html?id=1811
Prominence 09-30-06, 01:47 AM	Every character in the 10^10 challenge has 100+ AC.
Gastoff 09-30-06, 01:50 AM	where can I find this 10^10 challenge?
Prominence 09-30-06, 01:56 AM	in the stickies at the top of the page.... on another note, there's a few builds with infinite AC. Then there's pun-pun, which will make anything you do look like commoner 20. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=292273 specifically has links.
Gastoff 09-30-06, 02:05 AM	Is pun-pun a 20th level character? If so, is he legitimate (did not exceed 760,000gp limit, etc.)?
Prominence 09-30-06, 02:09 AM	pun-pun is a fourth level character. He requires no items. It's better to read the 1000 or 3000+ pages on him than ask questions.
Elephant Jack 09-30-06, 02:53 AM	on another note, there's a few builds with infinite AC. Then there's pun-pun, which will make anything you do look like commoner 20. Mh, yeah. But if I remind correctly, pun-pun is not a playable character, more of a mind-construct what can be done with DnD. @Gastoff: The Char-Op boards can be downright confusing... the probably most useful thread might be Surreal's Some handy links for CO work (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636). Here you find nearly every thread of importance... Btw for your build, there are the monk's tattooes from Magic of Faerūn - they work like a monk's belt (no item space, though!) and increase your monk level by 4 for calculating monk abilities. By the way, if you add in some Combat Expertise + Improved Combat Expertise + Tumble 5+ rnks + defensive fighting, you add a whooping +33 to AC if you sac all your BAB at 20th level. Hope this helps EJ
runestar 09-30-06, 05:56 AM	Mh, yeah. But if I remind correctly, pun-pun is not a playable character, more of a mind-construct what can be done with DnD. Oh, he's playable. About as playable as a solar in a 1st lv campaign.;) Amazing!:eek: The OP got shot down with narry a sweat! Ah...the high standards this board inevitably ends up setting....:cool:
Slyver 09-30-06, 09:28 AM	It can be very fun to find out what you can do within the DnD ruleset. This is the CO board however, which means, you are talking to people, the majority of which, have been doing it continuously for years. Not only that, but they have been collaborating on their exploits for years as well. What this means is, 80 AC is not overly impressive. However, it doesn't mean to get discouraged. The more time you spend here the more you will learn. Hopefully, it will also teach you that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. It is our responsibility as players to maintain a balance with our character. Pushing the envelope is fine, pushing it until it breaks is not. As for your build itself, I have a few questions. Unarmered Porficiency, Focus, Specialization, and Mastery uped the base AC of 10 to a base of 30; I know quite a bit, and I have nfc what this means. Can you break this down further? +8 Bracers of Armor, +6 Shield, +14 Dex, +11 Wis, +4 Amulet of Natural Armor,... ...This character is a 20th level Swordsage... The AC bonus from swordsage works only when you are wearing light armor (unarmored does NOT count) and not using a shield. I am not sure how you are getting a +14 dex mod. You didn't say what race you are, but assuming human getting a 38 dex isn't easy. There must be something to your build besides just swordsage levels, or something to your equipment that is "custom". Again, don't get discouraged. Slyver
Repeekluos 09-30-06, 11:03 AM	Slyver: I thought that cust-serv ruled that SS ac bonus works in or out of light armor.
NoldorForce 09-30-06, 11:09 AM	Unarmored Proficiency and so forth are apparently from some AEG book called Book of Feats. The build itself has this comment.Another character I have designed that exploits the overpowered feats found in Unofficial Sources. I would never allow these feats to be taken in my campaign, but they are fun to use to create that Uber-PC... Additionally, Customer Service has stated that the intent of the Swordsage's AC bonus is to be allowed with no armor. Stuff on the CO Boards is generally set up to be ECL 20; this build, as it incorporates a githzerai, goes slightly beyond that to ECL 22. It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but is a useful guideline.
HaikenEdge 09-30-06, 11:15 AM	pun-pun is a fourth level character. He requires no items. It's better to read the 1000 or 3000+ pages on him than ask questions. Actually, due to some work, Pun-Pun is actually now a 1st level human ardent build who starts off naked. And there's only 54 pages or so.
Slyver 09-30-06, 11:34 AM	Unarmored Proficiency and so forth are apparently from some AEG book called Book of Feats. The build itself has this comment. I guess I should have looked at the link. :) Additionally, Customer Service has stated that the intent of the Swordsage's AC bonus is to be allowed with no armor. CS stuff is imo total bunk for reasons I will not go into at this time, however; if it does end up being true (in errata) this could make for some easily game breaking monk/swordsage builds unless they put in a no stacking stipulation. Stuff on the CO Boards is generally set up to be ECL 20; this build, as it incorporates a githzerai, goes slightly beyond that to ECL 22. It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but is a useful guideline. It is a pretty hard-and-fast rule actually, at least when stating what a build can do. Without the ECL 20 build limit there can be no standard for comparison and the concept of comparison becomes meaningless. However, with LA buyoff (which was not stated but is certainly within the rules if it is stated) the build can be ECL 20. As for those feats of which I have no desire to know what they do, comparison builds on this board go by WotC published material only. I can bring in a feat that my friend made up and get an AC of 25,487 as a first level commoner, but I don't think that would be very useful to anyone else. This board has standards. You can post anything you want, but it will be seen as ludicrous and will be ridiculed unless those standards are followed. While it may seem silly and close-minded, it is necessary for the things on this board to retain any semblance of credibility, since often, by their very nature, they are pushing what can be conceived of as credible. Slyver
Repeekluos 09-30-06, 11:36 AM	Slyver: They have already been put into the "no stacking" category. Again, by CS.
Kresalak 09-30-06, 12:31 PM	Who has the link to Otto's 300+ AC build?
Prominence 09-30-06, 12:33 PM	refer to previous link I posted in this very thread.
Elessar Lespin 09-30-06, 01:41 PM	Foolish mortal. You should have known that anything posted by a newbie in this forum inevitably engenders one of two pre-programmed responses. First: newbie: OMG LOOK GUYS! I came up with this awesome build that does <insert build cheese here> forum sage: yawn Your build is pathetic. I can do better in my sleep. My grandmother could do better. And she's dead! In fact your build has already been outdone two years ago by the <uber cheese build> which can be linked from here <link to said uber cheese build>. newbie: tear But... but... I thought I had done good! forum sage: SILENCE pathetic newblet. Crawl back into the vile pit from whence thee came! newbie: retires in tears Second: newbie: Hey guys check out this uber-leet build I just came up with. It gives me a <ludicrous integer> bonus to my Str! forum sage: invokes the use of the extraordinary ability 'I'm Right/You're Wrong' forum sage: Actually if you will take careful note, I will now educate you on what it means to be a TRUE optimizer. If you will please reference the PHBII Pg. 97, Article 2, Subsection 3, Paragraph 4 I'm sure you will see that your build is not only impossible, but also utterly worthless in every way. Retreat now in shame or prepare to be ridiculed by the members of this forum at large! newbie: speechless
Tshern 09-30-06, 07:19 PM	Actually, due to some work, Pun-Pun is actually now a 1st level human ardent build who starts off naked. And there's only 54 pages or so. Was that a joke or what? If that's actually true, do you happen to have a link? I've only saved the one to the original Pun-Pun thread.