Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talonos 12-11-06, 01:50 PM	Hey. First, if there is anybody here that is in my campaign (The one set in post incursion Quay), either leave now, or deprive yourself of some of the fun of the game. I warned you. I'm trying to create plans, statistics, and equipment for an CR 20 warlock NPC for use as a one-time climactic battle antagonist named Mordo. He doesn't nessissarily have to be a twentieth level warlock (Last time the players saw him, he was a level 12 warlock, so I suppose the minimum warlock level is 12) but I want him to retain the "Gifted/Cursed Evil Guy" flavor. Here is all the information I can think of, so you get as much background as possible: He will be fighting a group of five ECL 17-18ish players and their two 16thish level cohorts. There is: An Elven Transmuter 7/Master Transmogrifist 10 A Human Werewolf Barbarian/Fighter (Can't remember the levels, but he's ECL 17) with Crimsion Ruination from Weapons of Legacy, A Half-fiend, half half elf Warmage 12/ Psionic warrior 1 A Half-Elven Druid 17 An Asimar Marshal/Fighter/Legendary Leader who is ECL 17, but I forget his level distribution (And whom I have you CO people to thank for) And two cohorts: A Cleric 16 (Who has a vlow of non-violence and for plot reasons will be unable to cast spells, but will be useful with wands and scrolls) A human scout/Dread commando, level distribution unsure, ECL 15, I think. This is a very dangerous group. They took down Vlaakith, the 25th level Sorcerer Lich Queen of the Githyanki, last session. However, they used up all their consumable magic items directly before the battle, and they were fully rested at the time. Before fighting this warlock, they will have already fought one CR 20 battle against a bunch of undead (Without the cleric's turning power, again, for plot reasons.) So I'm expecting it to be challenging anyway. Still, I came here, because I need to make sure I can appropriately challenge these players, who have handily defeated everything I've thrown at them thus far. The battle will take place in a large underground, shadowy area that is fairly wide open aside from thick (five foot) columns around the edges. Because I'm trying to Min/Max an encounter, and not a character, these could be changed to give the warlock a terrain advantage if his combat abilities depend on it. Also, as a DM, I use a non-standard elite array: 16, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8. I've never had balance problems because of this, and considering that two of my characters rolled 18 during character creation and only one of them is below point buy for a "High powered campaign" (Lucky rollers) I've never had a problem with using this array. Here are my ideas so far: Mordo: Medium Humanoid (Human) Warlock 20 HD: 20d6+80 (153HP, assuming average rolls) AC: 40 (+6 dex, +9 armor, +2 shield +4 delfection +3 Natural, +6 shield) BAB/Grapple: +15/+14 Attacks: Eldrich blast 9d6 (DC 25, if applicable) Special attacks: Utterdark Blast, Eldrich Doom, Vitriolic blast, Bewitching Blast, Hellrime Blast. SPecial Qualities: Detect Magic, Deceive Item, DR 5/Cold Iron Fiendish Resilience 5, Imbue Item, Fire and Acid Resistance 10, Devil’s Sight, See the Unseen, Dark one’s Own Luck, Fell flight, Flee the scene, Devour Magic, Enervating Shadow Saves: Fort +20 (+6 War +4 con, +5 luck +5 resistance) Ref +17 (+6 war,+6 dex +5 resistance) Will + 17 (+12 war, +5 resistance) Abilities: Str 8, Dex 22 (+4 from magic), Con 18 (+4 from magic), Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 22(+5 from magic) Skills: Max ranks in Use magic device, none others assigned yet. Feats: Improved Critcal (Blasts), Ability Focus (Blasts) Quicken Spell-like ability (Devour Magic) Battle caster (Makes it so he can wear medium armor without Penalty), Three unassigned feats left. Equipment: (Should total 220K) About 35K unspent gold, Gloves of Dexterity +4, Belt of Constitution +4, Crown of Charisma +5, +4 mithral Breastplate, ring of Force Shield, Ring of Deflection +4, Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Cloak of Resistance +5, Healer’s Armor (From a Dragon Magazine; once per round, when you are damaged, this vest casts Cure Light Wounds on you at caster level one in response, Costs only 1250 GP, suprisingly), Buckler +5 Alignment: Neutral Evil. Now, for strategy... Because he has "Deceive Item" (Can take 10 on all Use Magic Device checks) He can put together some crazy combos with scrolls and/or wands. We can get really creative here. I own Spell Compendium, by the way. Mordo will have no time to prepare for combat beforehand (Though he keeps his "Devil's own Luck" on all the times.) Though he will get a suprise round (Which I figure he'll use to activate his Enervating Shadows.) One thing I was thinking of doing is giving him a few scrolls of Heal. He can easily pass that DC, and his "Flee the Scene" can Dimention Door him to a small area off to the side of the main "Battle" chamber, and he can read his scrolls of heal as the players attack the Major Image left behind. Would Quicken Spell-like Ability (Flee the Scene) aid in this? His Quickened Devour Magic is there to simultaneously heal (sort of) him while depriving them of the druids buffing spells, and still allow him to use a blast. He'll be fighting alone in a dungeon-type room, so the only blast shape he'll really need is his Eldrich Doom. Utterdark blast is pretty good, but lots of my players have insane fortitude saves (The barbarian especially) so Vitriolic blast I picked because it doesn't allow a save. The other essence invocations are probably not as useful, and can be replaced if you have any better ideas. After Mordo falls, he will stay down for a few rounds (Long enough for the cleric to break out a few wands and patch people up) and then suddenly be possessed by evil energy, and rise again at full health as a proxy of Vecna, and they will fight it out again. No, I'm not going for a TPK, but the cleric has scrolls of Revivify, they've got the money to afford true ressurections if that doesn't work, and the battle would go perfectly, in my opinion, if only one player is left (it'll probably be the barbarian werewolf) duking it out with Mordo, and finally take him down when he's on his last legs. It's a tough Balancing act. They're only ECL 17-18, about, but I did see them take out a 25th level lich wizard flanked by four CR 18 undead and two CR 18 dragons, so I wouldn't put it past this group.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-11-06, 02:24 PM	Hmm, first off, check his AC, as you have a +2 shield bonus towards the front, and a +6 shield bonus at the end. As Mordo here has the decieve item ability, perhaps a staff of some sort is in order? As he should be flying, protection from arrows would be nice, as it works on all ranged attacks, not just arrows. Have him have a few save or die scrolls, or perhaps that staff might have one. After all, you can basically make a staff with whatever spells you want. So, disintergrate, horrid wilting, and the like would be interesting. While his eldritch blast is nice, it isn't all the impressive. Instead, have him use wands and scrolls and other items to deal out better damage. Perhaps a scroll of bloodwind, with some sort of item that gives him a natural attack. Then, he could fly around, and make melee attacks at range. I don't know if these are good ideas or not, but I hope they help.
Richmud 12-11-06, 02:34 PM	You might want to think about giving him all three levels in hellfire warlock, found in FC2 as well as right here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3
DaveTheMagicWeasel 12-11-06, 02:59 PM	Hellfire Warlock, as already mentioned, is a beast of a class. If you're feeling cruel then add in some Bloodline or Legacy Champion abuse. Also, I'd give him the Mortalbane feat (BoVD). Five uses should be plenty to last him an encounter. Another good Warlock tactic is Eldritch Cone + Utterdark Blast, along with undead minions, so you can heal your minions whilst blasting the party at the same time. I'd also give him a staff filled with spells that don't do direct damage (summons for example), and have him start the combat flying up in the shadows while invisible. Spend the first part of the encounter harassing the party with Chilling Tentacles + minions and then open fire with a Mortalbane Hellfire Eldritch Cone when they've all been pushed into an enclosed space :D
Talonos 12-11-06, 03:21 PM	Ah, yes... The shield... I forgot I had two there. I'll remove the ring of force shield. 5% spell failure is perfectly acceptable if it means a +6 bonus to Armor Class from a +5 buckler... I like that Hell-Fire warlock. Coupled with a few scrolls of restoration, some summoned Minions to keep PCs busy during the three rounds, and his Flee the Scene, he could Hell-fire all day and pop out to restore himself. The staff seems like an obvious choice. Nothing stinks more than having to spend a move action to get out that scroll you need, and staves make pretty cool treasure rewards (Better that yet another Amulet of Natural Armor to sell...) Dave? Why would Eldrich cone be better than Eldrich doom? I agree, though, that with Undead as well, that's a nasty combo. Perhaps I could add "Summon Undead" into his staff... With a warmage in the party, Protection from Arrows is basically useless. Far better would be some sort of "Protection from Energy," Although with a warmage blasting, it won't take long realize what he's strong and weak against (or to eat through 120 points, for that matter.) This party has scary saves, so save or die spells are pretty much out. In addition, the Barbarian's got a legacy item that generates a protection from evil at all times, so he's immune to lots of will saves.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 12-11-06, 03:40 PM	Well, Eldritch Doom means you need to be a bit closer to the party than the average Warlock would feel comfortable with (though now, in the days of Eldritch Glaive's its a more attractive invocation choice). Also, if you use Fell Flight and position yourself 30 ft. up in the air and then aim straight down then you can affect an area with a diameter of 60 ft., since the Con extends in all 4 directions (well, thats how I remember it working, I could be wrong), which would be a larger area than Eldritch Doom. As for the Warmage - if the Warlock has fought the party before he's probably been smart enough to invest in a Ring of Evasion, and then maybe stack Dark One's Own Luck onto Reflex. True, sooner or later the Warmage will switch to Orb spells, but then the Warlock can try and out-range him with Eldritch Spear. I'd also take Flyby Attack - that way you can swoop down, flood the area with your Eldritch Cone and then withdraw to higher up. You can also use it in conjunction with Devour Magic as a nasty little surprise for any PCs that try and join you in the sky and ruin your fun. With their shapeshifting the Druid and Transmogrifist could challenge his aerial dominance as well, so have him instruct his minions to grapple them en masse in the early rounds. Oh, and Retributive Invisibility as well, coz its always amusing.
Talonos 12-11-06, 03:58 PM	Heh... I like your idea, but against single targets, the warmge uses nothing but orb spells. Why allow a save for half damage when you only miss your touch attack about 5-15% of the time? (High natural dexterity &+6 gloves, weapon focus (ranged touch)) That's why I went with Enervating Shadows. A touch attack has a 50% miss-chance. I like the Ring of Evasion, though, because after missing enough touch attacks, she'll doubtlessly move onto area of effect spells just because she knows that she'll miss too often if she needs to hit a apecific target and prefer to swath an area in flame. I'm adding a 40 ft. Cathedral ceiling to the mix. That should give him flying room. I don't think aerial dominance would be a problem. He's got good maneuverability, and I know there's a magic item somwhere that, when worn, improves you maneuverability by one (I forget what it is; I think it's in the draconomicon.) If it's in his price range, I could give him that, and make sure other flying creatures with worse maneuverability would have a hard time getting around the columns. I put Dark One's Own Luck into Fortitude, because that's his worst save, but you do have a point. Wow... I just noticed that three levels in Hell-fire Warlock redices his DR, his ER, and his FH. He's suddenly a lot more fragile... Probably worth it, though, for a 15d6 eldtich blast and that shield ability.
strenoth 12-11-06, 04:01 PM	also, as has been mentioned in the Opt boards elsewhere, a single level of binder nabs you a bind that grants you ability damage healing at the rate of 1/round. So unless he's using the retributive aspect, he can keep doing it with out resorting to restoration
Talonos 12-11-06, 08:59 PM	What is a binder? Where do I find it? Any suggested spells for his staff?
Phoenix00 12-11-06, 09:14 PM	Binder is a base class in tome of magic. It doesn't cast spells instead it makes deals with powerful beings in exchange for part of there power. Hellfire warlock has been talk about alot in this thread. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=752142 A 20th lvl warlock build Evil Guy is quite easy and powerful with this new information. Binder 1/Warlock 1/Devil Bloodline 1/Warlock 2(3)/Devil Bloodline 1(2)/Warlock 3(6)/Hellfire Warlock 2/Devil Bloodline 1(3)/Hellfire Warlock 1(3)/Warlock 7(13) will net you an eldritch blast damage of 20d6 before items/other effects, one dark invocation (can get more with items), and the all powerful imbue item ability.
Phoenix00 12-11-06, 09:15 PM	If you don't have access to Tome of Magic. The Strongheart Vest from Magic of Incarnum also works.
Phoenix00 12-11-06, 09:20 PM	One more thing, if you do not have access to these books, since you are playing a villian and thus don't have to worry about saving your cash due to pacing yourself, a few scrolls of heal will heal 150 hps and any ability damage. That or a limited staff of life(not a full staff with all 50 charges). Something that is quite easy to make with your imbue item.
Tha Sage 12-11-06, 10:36 PM	Even with the 50% chance to miss, confronting the party directly still seems like suicide to me, especially with an Orb happy caster around.
Talonos 12-12-06, 12:14 AM	I'm afraid I have neither tome of magic nor magic of incarnum. If it would help, here are the books I own: Book of Challenges, Complete Arcane, Dieties and Demigods, Dragonomicon, Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5 & 3, Dungeon Master's Guide 2, Epic Level Handbook, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Heroes of Battle, Manual of the Planes, Monster Manual 3.5 & 3, Monster Manual 2, Player's Handbook 3.5 & 3, Spell COmpendium, Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, Weapons of Legacy. I also hae just about every 3rd and 3.5 edition Dragon Magazine they've put out, though they're half the country away right now. As a full-time student, I have no income besides birthday money, so before you suggest I get a book, make sure it's a really good one.;) He's got Eldrich Cone now, as well as chilling tentacles. That staff should come in handy. I just realized that because Mordo will be in his shadows, nobody will be able to see him, or whether their attacks are working or not. If the warmage sends in orb after orb of, say cold, Mordo can use protection from Energy to protect himself and the warmage won't be able to see that her attacks are doing nothing. Still 120 points is a little low around level 20. I was thinking of going for Energy immunity, but it was too expensive. Okay, Here he is now: Name/Class: Mordo, Warlock 17/Hell-fire Warlock 3 Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human) HD/HP: 20d6+80 (153) Init: +6 Speed: 20 ft (Fly) AC: 38 (+6 dex, +9 armor, +4 deflection +3 Natural, +6 shield) Bab/Grapple: +14/+13 Attack: Eldrich Blast 9d6 Special Attacks: Utterdark Blast, Eldrich Cone, Vitriolic blast, Hellrime Blast, Hell-fire blast, Hell-Fire Shield Special Qualities: Detect Magic, Deceive Item, DR 4/Cold Iron, Fiendish Resilience 2, Imbue Item, Acid Resistance 5, Fire Resistance 15, Devil’s Sight, See the Unseen, Dark one’s Own Luck, Fell flight, Flee the scene, Devour Magic, Enervating Shadows, Chilling Tentacles, Hell-fire Infusion. Saves: Fort +16 (+6 War +4 con, +5 resistance +1 hfw) Ref +24 (+6 war,+6 dex +5 resistance, +6 Luck, +1 hfw) Will + 19 (+11 war, +5 resistance, +3 hfw) Abilities: Str 8, Dex 22 (+4), Con 18 (+4), Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 22(+5) Feats: Improved Critical (blasts), Ability Focus (Blasts), Quicken devour Magic, Battle caster, Flyby Attack, craft Wondrous Item, craft staff Skills: Max Use Magic Device, whatever he needs for Hell-fire warlock. Alignment: Neutral Evil Equipment: Gloves of Dexterity +4*, Belt of Constitution +4*, Circlet of Charisma +5*, Mythral Breastplate +4, Ring of Deflection +4, Amulet of Natural Armor +3*, Cloak of Resistance +5*, Healer's Armor*, Buckler +5, Ring of Evasion, Staff of Mordo* (27 charges), 16937 unspent gold. (Items with an * he crafted himself, discounting it 70%, as per DMG p.110) Mordo’s Staff: A staff like this is unlikely to ever see creation again. Created using a warlock’s unique ability to commandeer spells from other sources, this strange staff blends several powerful cleric, wizard, and ranger spells together into a staff whose sole purpose is to minimize the weaknesses of its creator while boosting his ability to deal damage: Powers: Heal (2 charges) Protection from Energy (1 charge) Chain Lightning (2 charges) Summon Undead 5 (1 charge) Market Price: 78500 GP He's still got about 17k gold left for scrolls. I'm thinking Avasculate, for sure. It doesn't appear to allow a save against the damaging aspect of the spell, and it could take the barbarian down by nearly 100 health in one attack. The stun's not going to happen, but it would be icing on the cake if it did. Any other ideas?
neceros 12-12-06, 12:16 AM	Christmas is coming up. ;)
Phoenix00 12-12-06, 12:26 AM	Complete Mage is a great/horrible book depends on how you look at power creep. But back to the subject. Just give your NPC the con as his main stat, and then have him cast heal every few rounds via item. I would do sneak attack tactics, put them in a large dome area, with some hallways attached to it. Attack, run away, attack run away again. Your damage is high enough that you can seriously wear your party down, but if you stay in one place for too long you get your ass kicked even with the high damage. You will need Quicken Spell Like Ability (Eldritch Blast) and Quicken Spell Like Ability (Flee the Scene)
neceros 12-12-06, 12:27 AM	Complete Mage is a great/horrible book depends on how you look at power creep. RIFTS!
Talonos 12-12-06, 12:34 AM	I'm confused over Quicken and Empower spell-like ability. As far as I could tell, you just can't. From the SRD:The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to half its caster level (round down) -4. For a summary, see the associated table.And from Complete Arcane: An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a spell whose level is equal to one-half the warlock’s class level (round down), with a minimum spell level of 1st and a maximum of 9th when a warlock reaches 18th level or higher. As far as I can tell, unless you really multi class, your Class Level/2 will never be less than (Your HD/2)-4. Thus, unless he takes eight HD in a non-invoker class, you can't use Quicken Spell-like ability on his blasts. (Well, not until he reaches an epic 26 HD, at least) Yet I see quicken Spell-like ability in many warlock builds. Have you guys found a way around that? Although I will drop the Improved Critical (Blasts) in favor of quickening Flee the Scene. I was originally thinking of using his eldrich blasts to pick off characters one at a time, but now, I'm leaning more towards utterdark cones that'll boost his undead allies.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-12-06, 12:54 AM	With a warmage in the party, Protection from Arrows is basically useless. Far better would be some sort of "Protection from Energy," Although with a warmage blasting, it won't take long realize what he's strong and weak against (or to eat through 120 points, for that matter.) Well, the protection from arrows spell works against any ranged attack, including ranged touch spells, and the like. So, it would be effective against those pesky orb spells, for example.
Talonos 12-12-06, 01:21 AM	Form the SRD, under Protection from Arrows:The subject gains damage reduction 10/magic against ranged weapons.Also from the SRD, under Damage Reduction:A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. Emphasis added. The orb spells are both spells, and they deal energy damage. Sorry, but nope. Besides; taking ten damage off of an attack that deals 12d6 (Average of 45, after warmage edge) isn't that great. Thanks for the idea, though. It's too bad it didn't work...
Grizzled Gryphon 12-12-06, 02:08 AM	Hmm, I just searched and searched, but I cannot find the spell I am thinking of. I know it has "arrow" in the name, as it makes sure to point out that it works against all ranged attacks, and not just arrows, as the name implies. Obviuosly, it is not Protection From Arrows. I think it gives you a 20% miss chance against any ranged attack made against you. Well, it is something like that, anyway... Sorry for the confusion. I also know it is not in the PHB. Wish I could find it, again...
yorric 12-12-06, 02:56 AM	Hmm, I just searched and searched, but I cannot find the spell I am thinking of. I know it has "arrow" in the name, as it makes sure to point out that it works against all ranged attacks, and not just arrows, as the name implies. Obviuosly, it is not Protection From Arrows. I think it gives you a 20% miss chance against any ranged attack made against you. Well, it is something like that, anyway Warlocks get this as a least invocation (can't recall the name though, and we may well be thinking of different things since I don't remember this invocation applying to other than missiles), somewhere in Complete Arcane. As for quickened/empowered blasts. There is an official errata that changes the effective level of the blast from half the warlocks levels to being always one - except where a shape or essence would boost this. Basically the highest level supplied by the essence or shape is the one to use when applying quickening or empowering.
GoofsterStud 12-12-06, 03:13 AM	I still think going for the Warlock/Ur Priest/Eldritch Disciple/Warlock Is the best bet. Versitile. Why not Divine Power and Eldrich Glaive those spell casters. lol And there are some mean Cleric touch only spells that you can be hitting the shole party with, using your power.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 12-12-06, 08:06 AM	I'm confused over Quicken and Empower spell-like ability. As far as I could tell, you just can't. From the SRD:And from Complete Arcane: As far as I can tell, unless you really multi class, your Class Level/2 will never be less than (Your HD/2)-4. Thus, unless he takes eight HD in a non-invoker class, you can't use Quicken Spell-like ability on his blasts. (Well, not until he reaches an epic 26 HD, at least) Yet I see quicken Spell-like ability in many warlock builds. Have you guys found a way around that? Although I will drop the Improved Critical (Blasts) in favor of quickening Flee the Scene. I was originally thinking of using his eldrich blasts to pick off characters one at a time, but now, I'm leaning more towards utterdark cones that'll boost his undead allies. That was changed in the Complete Arcane errata - Eldritch Blast is now a 1st level spell regardless of your Warlock level (but with a higher level essence applied it becomes a spell of the the level of the essence). This can be a pain with Globes of Invulnerability, but is of massive benefit for the Empower/Quicken spell-like ability feats.
WombleHunter 12-12-06, 08:32 AM	Heh... I like your idea, but against single targets, the warmge uses nothing but orb spells. Why allow a save for half damage when you only miss your touch attack about 5-15% of the time? Because the bad guy has buffed himself with a Scroll of Ray Deflection, that's why. It's in the Spell Compendium - look it up, and then ask yourself WHY you haven't used it against the Warmage before ;). Greater Globe of Invulnerability also works, since the Orbs are low enough level to be excluded.
Carnon 12-12-06, 08:58 AM	The Ur-Priest dip isn't that great if he already has 12 levels of Warlock. Not on the list of allowed books either. However there are some dips in Complete Arcane you might want to consider. Assuming you want the 3 levels of hellfirey blasting... ... 2 levels in Acolyte of the Skin nets you an improved fort save, Dex, AC and slightly better HD in exchange for one invocation known and 1d6 of EB damage. BAB is unaffected. You also gain fire resistance 10, it's a shame you already have fire resistance 5. Taking 4 levels is also a viable option. ... 1 level in Mindbender nets you an improved fort save and telepathy in exchange for pretty close to nothing at all, level 17 of Warlock isn't even giving you any BAB. Wild Mage probably isn't worth the feat requirements, Green Star Adept requires taking more than a couple of levels of the class and has more of a melee focus.
HoshiAdam 12-12-06, 11:09 AM	If you want to make it a bit more challenging, make his lair be his own demiplane, and give him a scroll or two of banishment for the Aasimar and Half Fiend.
Hyfigh 12-12-06, 12:19 PM	That was changed in the Complete Arcane errata - Eldritch Blast is now a 1st level spell regardless of your Warlock level (but with a higher level essence applied it becomes a spell of the the level of the essence). This can be a pain with Globes of Invulnerability, but is of massive benefit for the Empower/Quicken spell-like ability feats. Globe of Invulnurability does not stop spell-like abilities so Warlocks bypass this one altogether.
Cam S. 12-12-06, 12:37 PM	You might want to grab "Baleful Utterance", the Least Invocation which gives you "Shatter"--while using retributive invisibility Shatter the party's weapons, armor, items (or a wand or two...breaking wands releases all charges, if I recall.) Leaving the enemy without weapons (and possibly without means of escaping, somehow) would be more than hillarious.
Talonos 12-12-06, 01:11 PM	I generally don't do equipment breaking, but that actually makes sense for him at this point. Plus, they've got crazy amounts of cash after invading the aforementioned Lich-Queen's palace. What to break, though? The barbarian has a legacy weapon (which, if I recall correctly, is treated as artifact level and thus requires a disjoining, not a sundering) and none of the other characters rely too much on weapons. Heck, the marshal person can be a perfectly annoying nuicance just standing around giving "Moral Support." Perhaps sundering the armor of the fighter types to make it easier for his summoned undead minions to attack? I like the idea of going into acolyte of the skin, but if I do, I need to figure out which invocation I'm dropping. I've already dropped two darks in favor of two greaters that seem more useful, so I guess I need to choose a greater to get rid of... As for Globe of Invulnrability, just to point out: Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items.It specificaly mentions spell like abilities. However, you can fire things out of the sphere, apparently, so it doesn't matter unless they've got the globe on. My only problem with this plan is that it says:Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled. To me, this reads that all active spells (Or spell-like abilities) are supressed within the sphere, which, with fourth or lower level, includes Dark ones own luck, Devil's Sight, See the Unseen, and most importantly, fell-flight. It's not worth it. Better would be spell immunity. If I build that into his staff, he could make himsef immune to all five orb spells, with no ill effects. Thanks for the train of thought that led to this, hyfigh. Here's a question: If you use Use Magic Device to activate a staff (Which has a caster level equal to yours) what caster level is it activated at? I've been thinking 20 (His Invoker level) but I can't say why, because I did't get that from anywhere. The demi-plane thing is interesting (And once, I had a guy with Planar Turning via prestige class turn a PC, which was funny to no end, at least for me.) but a private demi-plane is a little too far out of the way for what I had in mind. I'd post the plot, so you could get ideas, but if any of my players are reading this thread, it's bad enough that I've spoiled the one of the antagonist. I'm not touching plot, here.
Tha Sage 12-12-06, 01:18 PM	Better would be spell immunity. If I build that into his staff, he could make himsef immune to all five orb spells, with no ill effects. Alas... The warded creature effectively has unbeatable spell resistance regarding the specified spell or spells. Naturally, that immunity doesn’t protect a creature from spells for which spell resistance doesn’t apply. Orbs dont allow Saving Throws or Spell Resistance.
Richmud 12-12-06, 01:45 PM	You might want to grab "Baleful Utterance", the Least Invocation which gives you "Shatter"--while using retributive invisibility Shatter the party's weapons, armor, items (or a wand or two...breaking wands releases all charges, if I recall.) Leaving the enemy without weapons (and possibly without means of escaping, somehow) would be more than hillarious. Fun idea but shatter doesn't work on magic items, you can however mix it with one of the dispell invocations but thats harder to pull off in combat
Talonos 12-12-06, 02:25 PM	<Checks...> Huh? That's got to be a mistake... Orb of acid, I can understand not allowing spell resistance. After all, no acid spells do. But the other orb spells are all based off of acid orb (as acid orb, except it deals X damage) so it seems to me they forgot to change the "Spell-resistance" heading. Is there errata for the book? Does it mention this?
GhostStepper 12-12-06, 02:59 PM	Obviuosly, it is not Protection From Arrows. I think it gives you a 20% miss chance against any ranged attack made against you. Well, it is something like that, anyway... Sorry for the confusion. I also know it is not in the PHB. Wish I could find it, again... Sounds like Entropic Shield to me.
Pinky's brain 12-12-06, 03:17 PM	Yet I see quicken Spell-like ability in many warlock builds. Have you guys found a way around that? Always read the erratas ;) Eldritch blast is always considered the equivalent of a first level spell unless eldritch essense or blast shape invocations are applied.
Pinky's brain 12-12-06, 03:26 PM	To me, this reads that all active spells (Or spell-like abilities) are supressed within the sphere, which, with fourth or lower level, includes Dark ones own luck, Devil's Sight, See the Unseen, and most importantly, fell-flight. Except they aren't :) "Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast."
Pinky's brain 12-12-06, 04:00 PM	How about using a some zombie/skeletal dragons for backup? Skeletal dragons with their supreme BAB for their CR can put the hurt on in melee and the zombie dragon breath weapons can soften them up from range (Shadow dragon perhaps?). With utterdark blast you can heal them too of course. If the transmuter can cast control undead he could take one over, but since it would be his highest level spell I would say he deserves it.
Ian Demagi 12-12-06, 04:31 PM	Might want to give him a Chausable of Power (greater + 2 dice to all Eldrtich Blasts making him do 11d6 on every normal blast) and a Warlocks Septer too. Watch out for the warmage, yeah 12d6 is only 42 plus his edge but, if he has worked his feats right that can be a lot more very quickly. If he sudden empowerd/sudden maxed an Orb spell, its a huge hit. And all the Orbs are SR none. Also he gets distintegrate now. I would keep the warlock greater invisible at all times so the warmage can't find him unless he has an item that allows him to see invisible, or the party has invis purge. Keep him flying away from the barbarian.
Richmud 12-12-06, 04:45 PM	<Checks...> Huh? That's got to be a mistake... Orb of acid, I can understand not allowing spell resistance. After all, no acid spells do. But the other orb spells are all based off of acid orb (as acid orb, except it deals X damage) so it seems to me they forgot to change the "Spell-resistance" heading. Is there errata for the book? Does it mention this? Its not the acid its the fact that all are conjuration school. conj spells that deal damage tend not to have SR
Tebryn 12-12-06, 06:17 PM	Its all about Battlefield Control. Solid Fog, with Blindsight (Spell Compendium) its only 30' but with flyby attack you can pull it off. Though, a Blindfold of True Darkness would be better (AaEG) Dust of Dissapearance (DMG) can't be seen by see invisibility, or even true seeing. but only lasts a handfull of rounds. Transmute Rock to Lava is mighty against the Low Reflex save members of the party. throwing this down after a solid fog might get interesting. But its also 9th level and something like 7k+ to throw around with scrolls. Beads of Force (DMG) help divide and conquer. through forcecage will work a little better if you can afford it. I always love the idea of a Mirror of Opposition. and it would be an amazing boon to your warlock, but it is also quite expensive (92k) unless your making it yourself. (well... even then...) you can also look at the variant summon tables (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedSummon.html), and summon some nonstandard creatures to his aid (EG Axiomatic Rust Monsters) And Mirror Image, Greater (PHBII) is also handy, keeps the party guessing. and dont just throw all of this stuff on there and think just because you have it all will be well. each item/spell/ect needs to be used properly. i have lost count of the times i have seen DM's make an evil villan fight too easy because they "forgot about Item X/didn't know (insert ability here) worked that way" thats all for now, got to run :cool:
Talonos 12-12-06, 07:17 PM	Watch out for the warmage, yeah 12d6 is only 42 plus his edge but, if he has worked his feats right that can be a lot more very quickly. If he sudden empowerd/sudden maxed an Orb spell, its a huge hit. And all the Orbs are SR none. Only 42? That's quite a hunk of damage. And yeah, she blew apart an ancient red dragon with a sudden empowered and maximized (via a rod) orb of cold that got a critical hit and dealt extra damage anyway (against a creature with the fire subtype.) 198 damage, I ended up calculating. I guess with what I know kow, globe of invulnrability is the way to go. I'll give him two scrolls of it, just in case one is dispelled. The good thing is that metamagic feats only improve a spell's prepared level, not its actual level, right? A maximized, empowered orb of acid bounces off a sphere of invulrability just like any other orb, right? You'd need heighten spell to get past the sphere, right? Two members of the party have goggles of see invisibility. They're both casters, so they say they keep their spell hand pointed at whatever invisible creature they happen to be fighting at all times. This is good enough that a quick glance at the casters can triangulate an invisible opponent's position to about a five foot square (if they're fighting in close quarters) effectivly pinpointing them. That's why I haven't jumped on retributive invisibility. Enervating Shadows actually works better, because it give a 50% miss chance vs. everybody, not just the people who know where he is but can't see her. Skeletal dragons would be nice, but I need to come up with a reason why they're there...
Fwib 12-12-06, 07:23 PM	Probably the best thing you can do if you are going to be a 20th level warlock is make sure that you will qualify for the Epic Warlock Feats (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a) that you want. (If this is a one-off game or otherwise will not be going Epic, sorry for not reading it) [edit] Oh. he's a BBEG - well, probably no advancement for him then, unless he gets away to become a recurring BBEG. [edit more] Leadership - since he gets a minion of as much as 17th level and as many as 4 minions of 5th level or more (possibly better depending on what leadership extending-stuff you use) he can have those minions be initiators from the Tome of Battle - they can all use White raven tactics on their leader, and he can kick serious PC butt. This tactic is likely to always work, since as a 20th level warlock, he has Dark Foresight.
Pinky's brain 12-12-06, 07:34 PM	Leadership is useless for NPCs, only summoned creatures don't count towards the EL. If a DM wants to give his NPCs minions he simply gives his NPCs minions. PS. white raven tactics abuse is silly in a real game, also he doesn't have ToB.
Fwib 12-12-06, 07:40 PM	Leadership is useless for NPCs, only summoned creatures don't count towards the EL. If a DM wants to give his NPCs minions he simply gives his NPCs minions. PS. what DM allows infinite loop inducing abilities into his game without houseruling?No infinite loop in White Raven Tactics, just low-level mooks in effect giving up their actions so the BBEG gets to act some more. re: 'if the GM wants to give out minions, he gives out minions' true, but if the minions come from a feat or class feature etc, the players have a harder time complaining when the minions who are worth zero xp to them are very effective in boosting the BBEG (admittedly the 17th level guy would be worth xp, so you don't have him there) :) [edit] no ToB? ah well... WRT needs fixing to say that no creature can benefit from it more than once per round, or per combat, or something. Hmmm... how about this: WRT:effect: "if the target has not acted this round, then they act next, and if they have acted this round, then they move to the front of the initiative queue for next round" -- or would that be too much of a nerf?
Talonos 12-12-06, 09:33 PM	Unless they're summoned, gated in, or something similar, he's not going to have anybody else with him. He'll be pretty much alone. Yeah, he's a reccurring BBEG, but this is the time they finally choose to kill him (Ending him) or spare him (Ensuring that he never bothers them again out of fear and politeness.) Basically, they've fought him three times before: Mordo's Story (Spoilered for those of you who don't care. Also, if you're a player of my game, don't read this, as it contains plot spoilers. And by the way, you shouldn't be here anyway.) First time, they were all level ones, and he was a level four. They snagged the Magical Item they came to snag, and ran like the dickens, getting hit from behind by eldrich spears. (It's more effective than shaking your fist and shouting "You rotten, no good kids!") The next time, they were fourth, and he was seventh. They were both going after the same dragon and his horde, and so temoprarily allied. Then, the barbarian took down the red dragon, and Mordo Coup de graced it. They both claimed they got the "Final Blow" and a fight broke out, with Mordo getting very trounced, and using his flee the scene. It was funny. After the illusion went away, they spent five combat rounds running around groping places, trying to find him, thinking he was invisible. Best thing was, some very good role-playing convinced Mordo's cohort to split up with Mordo and join the party. He's the cleric cohort mentioned on the first page. I never intended him to become a party member, but he's now the most iconic character in my campaign. The next time, they were 11 and he was 15. They were going after the same legacy item, Crimson Ruination, and ran into each other on the way to the cave of a ghostly red dragon. Again, they made a temporary alliance. As the barbarian was in melee with the dragon, and the dragon looked like it was about to die, Mordo "Accidentally" started hitting the barbarian in the back, (Because if an opponent has cover, if you roll wrongly, you hit the cover instead, he actually got away with it three times before the party realized perhaps Mordo wasn't just rolling poorly.) After the death of the dragon, they surrounded him again, and he was forced to Flee the Scene. This time, they had goggles of see invisibility, and were very annoyed that their investment didn't pay off. This time, the party will be invading one of the holiest sites of Vecna. When the party finally gets to the end, and is about to claim their prize, the Book of the Fall of Vecna (A tome describing Vecna's ascension to godhood) Vecna will use Miracle to teleport Mordo into the area, (he was previously on the road to try to hunt another monster. That's just what he does for a living) and then Vecna will use his communication to command Mordo to kill the party, or else "I'll take back my gifts from you." (He'll lose all warlock class features.) Now Mordo wasn't expecting this, and after being humiliated once and beaten twice, will not want to fight. However, unwilling to spend the rest of his life without the power he's gotten used to, it's either kill or be killed. (Or be spared by a generous PC.) After this battle, Mordo will either be dead (Ooh... can warlocks become liches? Vampires? What could he rise again as?) or will have lost all of his warlock powers for failing to serve the dark powers. Unless he becomes a lich or something, I don't have to worry about him being epic. Edit: I don't know how to do spoilers, so I put it in code boxes for now. Edit: That didn't work either, so I put it in small font, so its easier to skip. Edit: Okay, so that's how you do spoilers.
Talonos 12-13-06, 05:27 PM	Wow… Put up a war story, and all you get back are crickets… Oh well. Constructive bump: Seeing as though he’s pretty much done by this point, here is a round by round battle plan. Surprise round (You can make a swift action and a five-foot step in a surprise round, right?) Activate Enervating shadows to provide a miss chance, use a quickened vitriolic cone, hitting a bunch of people, and causing continuous damage to the casters, perhaps causing their spells to fail. He takes a five foot step upwards. Round 1: Five foot step upwards. Quickened Hell-fire cone, hitting as many people as possible, followed by a Chilling tentacles. (The casters probably haven’t moved much, and the Marshal and Barbarian, who charged, will probably have grapple checks too high anyways. Round 2: Now that he’s ten feet up, out of reach, most likely, he’ll take a move action to finish going up as high as possible. Summon Undead from the staff, (Skeletal Wyverns and Troll skeletons both have reach, so they’ll be able to attack grappled people safely.) Quickened Hell-fire blast (not cone) against anybody who’s not grappled (because firing into grapples is pretty bad.) Round 3: Utterdark cone, hitting everybody, followed (Likely) by a quickened Flee the Scene. (By this point, he’s probably hurting.) He’ll go a few feet down the hall, just out of sight. Round 4: Cast heal from staff. Move action to draw scroll of globe of Invulnrability. Round 5: Cast Globe of invulnability. Move action to draw scroll of Avasculate. Round 6: Pop out from around the corner, cast Avasculate on Barbarian (Unless he’s Grappled, because it requires a touch attack and firing into grapples is silly with that much gold on the line.) Round 7: Five foot step upwards, Hell-fire Infusion (Empower) Chain Lightning from staff. Round 8: Five foot step upwards, Summon Undead 5 from staff (His old ones are probably dead by now) Round 9+: Utterdark cones until forced to flee and heal Round X+: Earch time he flees to heal, he'll cast heal and one other buffing spell (likely protection from energy from whatever the warmage's been using most.) … You get the idea. Any other plans, dastardly ideas, etc?
Momar 12-13-06, 05:53 PM	Hmm, I just searched and searched, but I cannot find the spell I am thinking of. I know it has "arrow" in the name, as it makes sure to point out that it works against all ranged attacks, and not just arrows, as the name implies. Obviuosly, it is not Protection From Arrows. I think it gives you a 20% miss chance against any ranged attack made against you. Well, it is something like that, anyway... Sorry for the confusion. I also know it is not in the PHB. Wish I could find it, again... Maybe the ray deflection spell in the SC? I think it works against the orbs.
Talonos 01-12-07, 11:31 AM	Just wanted to let you know how he went: Everybody was suprised to see him. I had hinted that the battle coming up was going to be really hard, and when they saw Mordo, they expected him to just be an annoyance again. The didn't know I'd gotten help. In the first round, he basically ruined the master transmogrifist with chilling tentacles. He tried to polymorph into somthing that would let him escape, but he still didn't do so well. Mordo had (Comparatively) a low amount of hit points, so a whirling blade enhanced with true strike from the barbarian's ring of spell-storing brought him down pretty far. After summoning undead and strengthening them with his utterdark blast, he portaled out, and healed. The warmage got really sick of him. His reflex save modifier was literally higher than the warmage's spell DCs (Her player says her character has a thing against enhancing her mental ability scores, so she's only got a charisma of 20 at 19th ECL) so none of her area spells could touch him. Her orb spells never seemed to make it past the shadows (Luckily, her first spell, a sudden empowered, maximized via a rod orb of acid that made it past the shadows, got a natural 2 on the attack roll, keeping the battle from ending in the first round.) Mordo hit the barbarian with avasculate: "Roll a saving throw." "I got a 42." "You lose half your current healthpoints in damage. That'd be... 170 damage." "But I saved!" "That was to keep from being stunned. Now roll against massive damage." "A natural 3. I pass." "Good job. You're still up, at 170 HP left." "But I just took 170 damage!" "Oh, quit whining," said the druid (Max health about 160) The enervating shadows were very helpful. It turns out the Marshal is no longer a marshal (he rebuilt it when I was on vacation), but some insane charger build that deals an average of 140 damage a charge. He missed twice due to the shadows. The biggest suprise would be the pole of anti-magic wall they pulled out and I forgot they had. (Custom item I made for this campaign; generates a 40 foot x 40 foot by 5 foot antimagic wall when planted in the ground, has fifty charges.) A few times, they planted it in the ground in a position that'd cause Mordo to fall. All he needed to to was move five feet, though, and he was flying again, so it was a brief advantage at best. Plus, the warmage couldn't shoot shings at Mordo, and the charger couldn't get all his magic boosts to his charging damage, so it only helped a little. The funniest thing was when Mordo, the barbarian, and the warmage were on one side of the anti-magic wall, and everybody else was on the other side. Mordo let loose a hell-fire infusion empowered chain lightning that dealt tons of damage, and left both of them, ironically enough, in the single digit HP range. The healer was on the other side of the wall. Then, they came to the realization that if they passed through the wall, their amulets of health +6 would stop functioning, and they would both be at about -40 HP. It was pretty tense, but the scout maganged to get over there in enough time to pull the pole out of the ground, and then the barbarian and warmage (Both of which had delayed actions) raced to get next to the healer. Mordo was finally take down by grappling. When he flew back into the room after popping out to heal again, one of them was able to grapple him. He failed his concentration check to dimention door out, and was then pinned (Giving him an effective dexterity of zero.) He was then hit with the Marshals charge, and was brought from full health to negative thirty in one attack. It's okay, though. The battle was fun, didn't last too long, was interesting and unique, and ended because of the brilliant strategy of the players. That's the way a battle should be. Thanks a ton for all your help. My and my group owe it all to you.
WombleHunter 01-12-07, 11:47 AM	Now have him Raised, and come back as a lich ;)
Talonos 01-12-07, 11:54 AM	Nah, they cut him up and (tried to) burned him, just in case. He'd have to come back as something incorpreal. ;)
Richmud 01-12-07, 01:06 PM	Nah, they cut him up and (tried to) burned him, just in case. He'd have to come back as something incorpreal. ;) My ghost will be both vengeful and posses all of my arcane powers :D
WombleHunter 01-12-07, 03:07 PM	Nah, they cut him up and (tried to) burned him, just in case. He'd have to come back as something incorpreal. ;) Surely a bad guy worth his salt has managed to squirrel away the 28825gp needed to pay someone to True Ressurrect him after a set period? THEN he can go about becoming a lich. Then he can turn up again, as the puppetmaster behind the party's next nemesis! :) EDIT: Or a ghost works too. Make sure to have him Malevolence people so he can affect the world, then flee incorporeally into the ground when his body is defeated! EDIT2: How about this - the party's next nemesis is an arrogant noble. After a long and tense cold war, things finally push over into violence and the party are able to break into his sanctum, defeat his (powerful and class-levelled) guards, and slay the noble - only for the ghost of Mordo to erupt from his pawn's corpse and cackle before disappearing into the floor!