Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Final Dream 11-29-03, 04:45 PM	I'll cut to the chase. I'm making this charcater from scratch, and I want to see how powerful the MT could get in epic levels. So far, I have Shu4/Sor4/MT13/Mystic Wanderer 1/ Contemplative 1. This is likely the strongest build availible, as the MW lets me add my Cha bouns to AC and the Contemplative can give a prestige domain that lets me add my Cha bonus to my saves. I have a general idea of what path I want to take with my spells, but I'm lost when it comes to feats. I have access to essentially all the official books. Any suggestions?
catharz 11-29-03, 05:01 PM	First, Mystic theurge 13 is probably not worth it. You don't gain any bonus feats from it, and it dosen't advance your spellcasting any faster then a normal PrC. Shu 4/Sor 4/MT 10/MW 1/Cnt 1/Geo 3 is better, although you will be freakish (and should probably alter the flavor-effects of the drifts to match your character). If you become a Shu 4/Sor 4/MT 10/MW 1/Cnt 1/Geo 10 (at level 30), you've only lost one epic feat versus the Mystic theurge. Just food for thought. Of course, I'm not sure if there is an epic Geomancer pubished, so that could be a problem after 30.
BenjCano 11-29-03, 05:26 PM	Since the Shugenja is elemental based, I always liked: Sor 4/Shug 4/Myst 10/Archmage 2, with Mastery of Elements and Mastery of Shaping.
The Final Dream 11-29-03, 05:32 PM	Originally posted by catharz First, Mystic theurge 13 is probably not worth it. You don't gain any bonus feats from it, and it dosen't advance your spellcasting any faster then a normal PrC. Extra levels of MT do enhance spellcasting faster than any other class. They give a level to both the sorcerer CL and the Shugenja CL. Any other class would only give a bonus to one class. Originally posted by catharz Shu 4/Sor 4/MT 10/MW 1/Cnt 1/Geo 3 is better, although you will be freakish (and should probably alter the flavor-effects of the drifts to match your character). If you become a Shu 4/Sor 4/MT 10/MW 1/Cnt 1/Geo 10 (at level 30), you've only lost one epic feat versus the Mystic theurge. Just food for thought. Of course, I'm not sure if there is an epic Geomancer pubished, so that could be a problem after 30. I'll admit, Geomancer is tempting. However, the two main bonuses of the Geomancer- namely, using only one ability score to control spellcasting and wearing armor while casting arcane spells- are worthless with a Shu/ Sor. Both classes cast off of Cha, and Shugenja are prohibited from wearing armor. Because I want to gain as high a CL as possible, at least until I hit CL 20 in both my classes, I'm going to stick with my original build unless there's something extremely useful that I've missed. EDIT: Like the above. Archmage may be worth giving up a Shugenja CL for. Mastery of shaping alone is amazing. I'll think on that.
Sisyfos 11-29-03, 05:36 PM	Originally posted by The Final Dream Extra levels of MT do enhance spellcasting faster than any other class. They give a level to both the sorcerer CL and the Shugenja CL. Any other class would only give a bonus to one class. Epic MT gives caster level to only EITHER divine OR arcane spellcasting class, not to both. This is 100% certain. Sisyfos
The Final Dream 11-29-03, 05:43 PM	Originally posted by Sisyfos Epic MT gives caster level to only EITHER divine OR arcane spellcasting class, not to both. This is 100% certain. Where does it say that? I don't have access to the 3.5 DMG- I don't own it, someone else I know does- so I can't look it up.
Balthanon 11-29-03, 06:19 PM	Originally posted by The Final Dream Where does it say that? I don't have access to the 3.5 DMG- I don't own it, someone else I know does- so I can't look it up. The 3.5 DnD Update Booklet, available on Wizard's website. And actually, you don't even get a choice in the spellcasting. At even levels you get divine, and at odd levels you get arcane. It's definitely not worth pursuing the class into epic levels. If you're not interested in the geomancer, I would consider either the Dweomerkeeper or the Hathran. Hathran gains bonus feats slightly faster than the Dweomerkeeper, while the Mantle of Spells ability is more useful than the uses of fear the Hathran gets. However, for your character in particular, the Mantle of Spells is somewhat worthless, as you only cast spontaneously. The Epic Progressions for both can be found on Wizard's website.
MoogleEmpMog 11-29-03, 11:24 PM	Once you've hit Epic levels with a Shugenja/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge, you should abandon MT for some other caster classes. Unfortunately, Rokugan and OA have a serious dearth of good caster PrCs. Way of the Shugenja (basically the Shugenja splatbook, from AEG) might solve this, but I don't have the Rokugani splats. Therefore, you should persue some other caster classes. You basically can't go wrong with Archmage to advance your Sorcerer levels (lovely, lovely energy substitution). I once had a CR 39 epic BBEG who was a Succubus Sorceress 4/Shugenja 4/Archmage 3/Contemplative 1/Durthan 10/Mystic Theurge 10. (Durthan is from Unaproachable East - basically, she's an evil Hathran) While she probably could have been better optimized, her abilities were quite significant for her level, especially with her outrageously high Charisma (32 at 1st class level, and almost all her stat increases went that way). The save DCs for her various enchantment spells were downright obscene, not that she couldn't do most of it just with Bluff and Diplomacy. ;) If your BAB were higher, you could eventually take a Cleric level or a level in a PrC that grants you a domain, and then go for Divine Emissary to advance your divine spellcasting. I would probably advance your arcane casting while your Epic BAB scales up, then go into DE to catch up your divine casting.