Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZebRaderJedi 01-16-04, 11:51 PM	Hey all, My gaming group is spread pretty far and wide these days, we still get together about once every two weeks, but for games inbetween our normal schedule, there's really only me and my old roommate. While we lived together, we ran a few 2 PC games, trading GM spots each adventure. This was back in the days before 3e, and recently he and I converted these characters to continue their adventures. We're not really too happy with how the conversion left us, as the PCs don't quite have the same feel as in 2e. We've been chatting about re-converting now with 3.5 out. Could you help in optimizing this guy? As a 2 PC party, we feel that 'power' helps us survive CRs of our levels. Almric Mythmaker Lawful Evil 3.5 level 17 Grey (or FRCS Sun) Elf (+2 Int, -2 Con) In 2e he was a Fighter/Mage (Bladesinger Kit). Str 16 Dex 18 Con 13 Int 17 Wis 11 Cha 9 As a level 17 character I was thinking w/ stat increases: Str 16 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10 3.0 Almric was a Fighter 4 / Wizard 3 / Bladesinger 10 This Gish didn't match 2e in terms of abilities at all. The Race of Faerun Bladesinger helped some, and now with the Complete Warrior maybe it'll be better (since it doesn't rely on a separate spell list). I've been reading the various Gish threads, but thought I'd post this as an open invitation for help. My buddy's PC is even worse off, as in 2e he was something crazy like "Elven Ranger/Druid/Thief". I don't have his old stats, but will recommend to my buddy that he post for help if he feels he needs it. They've been on planar jaunts, popping into alternate realities, so pretty much anything is fair game. 4 iterative attacks would be nice, but I'm willing to settle for 3 in order to boost caster level as high as possible. Ideally, Almric ends up as an almost full caster (9th level spells) by level 20, but that's negotiable. Thanks in advance for any help! Zeb edit: changed the title
JosephKell 01-16-04, 11:59 PM	Fighter 4/Wizard 2/Bladesinger 10/Spellsword 1 Fighter 4/Wizard 2/Bladesinger 6/Spellsword 5 (Channel Spell and Ignore ASF)
ZebRaderJedi 01-17-04, 12:02 AM	Thanks JosephKell, that was fast. I'm not stuck on the 4 Fighter levels, you think that they are worth keeping in a build going for high magic? (By converting to 3.5 we're thinking of using our current character levels, but going full score class-wise based on the 2e stuff.) Anyway, thanks! Zeb
JosephKell 01-17-04, 12:07 AM	Full Bab 4/Arcane Caster 2 is the fastest way into Bladesinger... Ranger 4 could be substituted... Or perhaps Paladin? Paladin 2/Bard 4 would work... for an interesting Half-Elf warrior... Your choices are Bard, Sorcerer, or Wizard (I prefer Sorcerer myself). Or if you are so inclined... Noble 4/Bard 3/Bladesinger 10 Edited: Changed Wizard 4 to Bard 3.
ZebRaderJedi 01-17-04, 12:31 AM	Speed for access into Bladesinger isn't too much of an issue, as we're going to keep the characters at level 17. Ranger 4 / Wizard 2 / Bladesinger 10 / Spellsword 1 sounds okay, but CL would be, like 8? What about Ranger 1 / Wizard 9 / Bladesinger 7 That's a late entry into Bladesinger, but caster level 13 is closer to what I was thinking about in this build. Maximizing CL is priority #1 for this conversion at this time. Really appreciate the help so far. Zeb
JosephKell 01-17-04, 12:59 AM	Why waste hte level on Ranger? If you want to max your Wiz caster level and be a bladesinger... how about Wizard 10/Bladesinger 7?
ZebRaderJedi 01-17-04, 01:12 AM	Originally posted by JosephKell Why waste hte level on Ranger? If you want to max your Wiz caster level and be a bladesinger... how about Wizard 10/Bladesinger 7? That's not a bad idea. I thought BS needed all Martial for some reason, but just checked CW and that's not the case. The other idea I had was to minimize the Bladesinger levels (1 or 3) and add on either Knight of the Thorn (need 1 ftr level to qualify) - good since Almric is LE OR Planeshifter. The latter fits better in the theme of the campaign. Wizard 9 / Bladesinger 1 / Planeshifter 7 BAB +10, CL 16 Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Knight of the Thorn 10 / Bladesinger 1 BAB +12, CL 16 KoT is a bit harder to justify, though the PCs home plane could have a KoT-type Prc available to one of the organizations. What do you think? Thanks again, Zeb
ZebRaderJedi 02-08-04, 02:49 AM	I ended up going with this conversion (plus some recent gaming added a level): Male Sun elf, Level 18, Lawful Evil Ranger 1 / Wizard 8 / Bladesinger 1 / Planeshifter 8 BAB +10/+5 Arcane Caster Level 15 I'm debating about how best to round this build out, the various options are: 2 levels Bladesinger, +1 CL, BAB +12, +2 additional Int to AC 2 levels Archmage, +2 CL, BAB +11, Mastery of Shaping & Elements 2 levels Planeshifter, +1 CL, BAB +11, Demiplane Seed! The last adventure left us bereft of a lot of our equipment, right now I'm pretty humble (for 18th level) with: +5 flaming longsword Bracers of Armor +7 Ring of Protection +4 Headband of Intellect +6 Fiendish Familiar (FF symbiote) We are talking about searching for some treasure hordes next, to beef this up some. We're currently resting in Sigil, so a few Gather Info checks and we're ready to roll. Any advice on what to add on level-wise? Mechanically, he ended up a very strong caster gish, decent in a fight, better with the spells. Oh, and my buddies conversion left him looking like this: Level 18 Druid 5 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 6 / Planar Champion 4* BAB +11/+6/+1 Druid CL 11, Wizard CL 9 *we've house-ruled that Weapon Specialization is available to all at level 4, GWS you need the Fighter levels as normal. We do this in our larger groups game as well. One of the other GMs put that up, and we accepted and have carried it into our side games. Any advice on how best to round out his build? Thanks!!! Zeb
Inkubus 02-08-04, 08:18 AM	You want a Bladesinger, right? Oooh, the good old days of the 2nd Ed bladesinger... Okay, using the RoF version (which I like way better than that CW crap) I would go for a Fighter 1/ Wizard 5/ Bladesinger 7/ Eldritch Knight 7 (caster level 11, all spells can be quickened by song of celerity, two spell lists (6th level wizard spells and 4th level baldesinger spells, BAB +17, all the bladesinger goodies except song of fury) If you absolutely have to use the CW bladesinger I'd avoid it completely and instead go Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Havoc Mage 5/ Eldritch Knight 8 (caster level 15, battle cast 8th, BAB +16). IMO that nets you everything that a bladesniger gets and more. Cheers, Inkubus.
ZebRaderJedi 02-08-04, 11:30 AM	Thanks for the input Inkubus! I'll have to goto the store and browse through the Miniature's Handbook - haven't picked that up as my group isn't really into miniatures. Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Havoc Mage 5/ Eldritch Knight 8 (caster level 15, battle cast 8th, BAB +16) sounds pretty cool - just a matter of figuring out what Havoc Mage does. If I stick with the Ranger 1 / Wizard 8 / Bladesinger 1 / Planeshifter 8 , any advice on how best to round out the 20 level build? Thanks again, Zeb
Lord Zeb 07-17-04, 04:41 PM	*casts resurrection on thread * So, now with a new & improved screen name, I figured it'd be time to show the latest update for ole Almric. Since playing months & months ago to get up to level 18, we've let the characters idle in Sigil for quite a while. Now we are talking about dusting them off for a few more planar jaunts. In the meantime I have bought quite a few more books, and decided it was time to "finalize" Almric. (Since it's a for fun 2 player, co-GM campaign, we agreed it'd be alright to swap the Int & Cha scores, oh and a book of intelligence +4 has been read during R&R). Almric Mythmaker male grey elf, Lawful Evil Level 18 (Battle Sorcerer 16/CW Bladesinger 1/Dragonslayer 1) Str 16 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 18 (24 w/equip) Feats: Blooded, Combat Expertise, Dodge, WF Longsword, Quick Draw, Combat Casting, Iron Will SQ: elf traits, summon familiar, no ASF in light armor, +1 dmg vs dragons, immune to fear, bladesong style (+1 int to AC) Caster level 18 (!!) BAB +14/+9/+4 Spells Known: 0: Resistance, Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Lilght, Mage Hand, Message, Detect Poison 1: Shield, Magic Missile, True Strike, Feather fall 2: Alter self, invisibility, See Invisibility, Spiderclimbing 3: Fly, Lightning bolt, Vampiric touch 4: Stoneskin, fire shield, evards black tentacles 5: Teleport, wall of force, cone of cold 6: Disintegrate, Greater Dispel Magic 7: Prismatic Spray, Limited Wish 8: Polymorph Any Object 9: Shapechange So, optimization fiends..er friends..., how's that look? Any changes recommended? What about the next 2 levels? Thanks in advance, Zeb
roguebfl 07-17-04, 06:43 PM	Well 3rd ed's multi classing is much weaker then 2nd, but you could ge most of the power bak if use use the Gestalt rules from UA
Lord Zeb 07-17-04, 11:54 PM	Originally posted by roguebfl Well 3rd ed's multi classing is much weaker then 2nd, but you could ge most of the power bak if use use the Gestalt rules from UA Very true, I did think about Fighter 18 / Wizard 18, or some variation like Fighter 8 / Spellsword 10 // Wizard 18 But that would mean Gestalting our foes etc too, so a non-Gestalt variant seems best. I really dig the Battle Sorcerer since it allows for the Gish-type mix I like, and keeps the caster level pumped. Thanks for the reply! Zeb
roguebfl 07-18-04, 08:56 AM	Originally posted by Lord Zeb But that would mean Gestalting our foes etc too, so a non-Gestalt variant seems best. you a 2 PC group? why not just treat the CR of your opents as if you where a 4 PC group and NOT Gestalting your foes?
Lord Zeb 07-18-04, 08:59 AM	Originally posted by roguebfl you a 2 PC group? why not just treat the CR of your opents as if you where a 4 PC group and NOT Gestalting your foes? That could work. Any recommendation for what a Gestalt Almric would look like?
roguebfl 07-18-04, 09:35 AM	Originally posted by Lord Zeb That could work. Any recommendation for what a Gestalt Almric would look like? straight convertion? Fighter 20 up one side and Wizard 10 / Bladesinger 10