2lvs of Rog worth it to cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

2lvs of Rog worth it to cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drock
02-03-04, 12:29 PM My 5th level cleric keeps getting in trouble for being in heavy armor and weighed down. I started out with heavy armor in a group that didn't have many front line fighters. With the death of a party member or two, we now have 3 front line fighters, a wizard, and myself. So i dont need to be in the front lines any more, mainly i provide support for the other characters, this is fine by me!

However, I still have a speed of 20' and terrible negatives to jump, swim, etc. This has proved almost fatal as i had to be hauled over a 10 foot wall becuase i kept getting negatives on my roll to climb even with someone to assist me. Meanwhile archers from the castle we had just left were shooting at me and my friends. Another time i was pulled into a pool of water by a wierd we were fighting and almost ran out of breath before my comrades could fish me out!

I'm thinking of taking a level of rogue now and one later. Mainly i want the skill points to take a few ranks of jump, tumble, diplomacy, and maybe spot. Also, i would be downgrading to light armor to make the most of my speed and mobility. I'm coming up to 6th level and trying to figure out a good feat to take, so far i have power atk, divine might, and scribe scroll.

I dont have any interest in the thief like skills of the rogue i mainly want to make my char more diverse and the sneak atk damage never hurts just in case i have to get into melee.

any ideas or pointers would be greatly appreciated!
if you need any other information i'll be glad to post it
thanks.
Prism
02-03-04, 01:44 PM Which god do you worship and which books can you use? There are some PrC's that have a rogue/skills type focus.

I certainly wouldn't take rogue levels however as your caster level would suffer and you'd still only end up with a few ranks in those skills you are looking for
rilem
02-03-04, 01:55 PM I'd second that; you won't get anywhere near the payback from rogue levels, especially if what you're chiefly interested in is skills.

Better to grab an item-creation feat and make some skill-boosting items for yourself.

And more info about your deity, available books would certainly help.
Drock
02-03-04, 01:58 PM I worship Odin, with domains of War and Magic. As for books allowed, pretty much any of the wizards stuff and outside books with DM approval. So long as i dont bring in something way overblown, he's pretty good about oking it.
Funny Slaughter
02-03-04, 02:01 PM you can get evasion or even a better version by taking divine oracle.

climbing shouldnt be a problem by the time you can cast spells to help you with this.
for single checks you can rely on guidance of the avatar or wieldskill (+20 resp. +10 to a single check)

i would suggest that you get into a PrC with a better skill-list and more skillpoints, take a look at windwalker from F&P or similar classes.

stay with you armor, you can make it a bit lighter by using mithral, though. but i would be very surprised if you have the dex to use light armor for full benefits.

gs
Funny
Drock
02-03-04, 02:03 PM Ok, here are my scores

Str 14 Dex 12 Con 16 Wis 18 Int 13 Cha 17
rilem
02-03-04, 02:15 PM Windwalker is a possibility, as Funny Slaughter suggested, and it even works concept-wise with Odin (the sky-father, right?). Four points/level, with a good skill list, and full BAB and spellcasting.

However, it'll be tricky to get into. You'll need a DM fiat to switch the weapon focus (greatsword) requirement to weapon focus (spear), but that shouldn't be too difficult. Then it's got a bunch of skill requirements and Track and Lightning Reflexes, which is tough for a 5th level cleric.

Ideally, you'd want to swap your first level for a level of ranger, but that's probably out.
rilem
02-03-04, 02:27 PM Alternately, see if you could Swap your first level feat for Versatile: Hide/Move Silently. Sacrifice scribe scroll.

Then Go:

Cleric7/Divine Disciple1. Take the Travel Domain, which gives you Survival as class skill. Survival replaces Inuit Direction and Wilderness Lore, both requirements for Windwalker. Take another level of DD to get Survival up and you should be able to Switch into Windwalker.

So
Cleric7/DivineDisciple2/WindwalkerX?
Feats:
1 Versatile, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Spear)
3 Divine Might
6 Lightning Reflexes
9 Track
...

This doesn't help you in the short-term of course, and might not be workable at all. But a skill-boosting item strategy, coupled with Funny's advice like wieldskill, could help significantly.
Drock
02-03-04, 02:33 PM I dont think i have F&P at the moment. could someone tell me if there are any other goodies that ocme with the prestige class? i understand that you cant just spill out everything but some sense of what else the PrC gives?

As for switching out the feats, i've already scribed scrolls. I feel sure i could get him to go for switching greatsword for spear.

I dont mind picking up the other feats but it may take me a while. thanks for all the help guys!
rilem
02-03-04, 02:38 PM There are class abilities like cold resistance, feather fall, etc. But really, full BAB and full spellcasting is pretty great on its own. There are only a handful of PrCs that offer that combo.

Other bit of advice: The Nimbleness armor enhancement, from Magic of Faerun. Drastically cuts the armor penalty.
MegaPlex
02-03-04, 02:42 PM Originally posted by Drock
Ok, here are my scores

Str 14 Dex 12 Con 16 Wis 18 Int 13 Cha 17

If you are thinking about light armor, how about bracers, ring prot, etc and then a level of Monk.

Monk has all the skills you wanted as class skills and you would get a +4 to AC from your Wis bonus.

I would recommend against taking any class that does not have a spell casting progression, but Monk is one of the better choices if you do.
catharz
02-03-04, 03:25 PM Rather then a level of Monk, you could buy a Monk's belt ;)

However, a Mythril Breastplate + Magic vestiment might be a better idea.
Drock
02-03-04, 03:26 PM Some of you have suggested that i try mithril armor. I guess its lighter but will it allow me to have more move or is it just great for weight and armor checks? My other problem with all the heavier armors is the cost. i'm going broke trying to buy magical plate. maybe i should just save up a bit.

thanks again for the advice
LordShade
02-04-04, 03:24 AM rilem's windwalker idea is very good. Alternately or in conjunction, if you switch to light armor, get yourself a reach weapon like a longspear (fits with your deity too). This way you can hang back behind the 3 fighters and still hit enemies with your reach weapon, and still be able to move around enough to heal anybody that's hurt.
Funny Slaughter
02-04-04, 05:49 AM i think odin would be better suited with the stormlord, a PrC originally developed for a priest of talos.
not as good as a windwalker, but not bad either and with great roleplaying potential.

gs
Funny
pawsplay
02-04-04, 03:22 PM Just stick with cleric. Switch to masterwork studded leather, or, when you can get it, mithril stuff. For your next Feat, take Divine Shield.

Or just learn to be more careful.
Drock
02-04-04, 03:25 PM Thanks guys. I'm going to look into the prestige classes you recommended and i talked to my dm last night. i was able to get some +1 chainmail to replace my plate. I even had enough cash left over to buy a scroll of divination for the raid we're about to do on the local thieves guild. wish me luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drock 02-03-04, 12:29 PM	My 5th level cleric keeps getting in trouble for being in heavy armor and weighed down. I started out with heavy armor in a group that didn't have many front line fighters. With the death of a party member or two, we now have 3 front line fighters, a wizard, and myself. So i dont need to be in the front lines any more, mainly i provide support for the other characters, this is fine by me! However, I still have a speed of 20' and terrible negatives to jump, swim, etc. This has proved almost fatal as i had to be hauled over a 10 foot wall becuase i kept getting negatives on my roll to climb even with someone to assist me. Meanwhile archers from the castle we had just left were shooting at me and my friends. Another time i was pulled into a pool of water by a wierd we were fighting and almost ran out of breath before my comrades could fish me out! I'm thinking of taking a level of rogue now and one later. Mainly i want the skill points to take a few ranks of jump, tumble, diplomacy, and maybe spot. Also, i would be downgrading to light armor to make the most of my speed and mobility. I'm coming up to 6th level and trying to figure out a good feat to take, so far i have power atk, divine might, and scribe scroll. I dont have any interest in the thief like skills of the rogue i mainly want to make my char more diverse and the sneak atk damage never hurts just in case i have to get into melee. any ideas or pointers would be greatly appreciated! if you need any other information i'll be glad to post it thanks.
Prism 02-03-04, 01:44 PM	Which god do you worship and which books can you use? There are some PrC's that have a rogue/skills type focus. I certainly wouldn't take rogue levels however as your caster level would suffer and you'd still only end up with a few ranks in those skills you are looking for
rilem 02-03-04, 01:55 PM	I'd second that; you won't get anywhere near the payback from rogue levels, especially if what you're chiefly interested in is skills. Better to grab an item-creation feat and make some skill-boosting items for yourself. And more info about your deity, available books would certainly help.
Drock 02-03-04, 01:58 PM	I worship Odin, with domains of War and Magic. As for books allowed, pretty much any of the wizards stuff and outside books with DM approval. So long as i dont bring in something way overblown, he's pretty good about oking it.
Funny Slaughter 02-03-04, 02:01 PM	you can get evasion or even a better version by taking divine oracle. climbing shouldnt be a problem by the time you can cast spells to help you with this. for single checks you can rely on guidance of the avatar or wieldskill (+20 resp. +10 to a single check) i would suggest that you get into a PrC with a better skill-list and more skillpoints, take a look at windwalker from F&P or similar classes. stay with you armor, you can make it a bit lighter by using mithral, though. but i would be very surprised if you have the dex to use light armor for full benefits. gs Funny
Drock 02-03-04, 02:03 PM	Ok, here are my scores Str 14 Dex 12 Con 16 Wis 18 Int 13 Cha 17
rilem 02-03-04, 02:15 PM	Windwalker is a possibility, as Funny Slaughter suggested, and it even works concept-wise with Odin (the sky-father, right?). Four points/level, with a good skill list, and full BAB and spellcasting. However, it'll be tricky to get into. You'll need a DM fiat to switch the weapon focus (greatsword) requirement to weapon focus (spear), but that shouldn't be too difficult. Then it's got a bunch of skill requirements and Track and Lightning Reflexes, which is tough for a 5th level cleric. Ideally, you'd want to swap your first level for a level of ranger, but that's probably out.
rilem 02-03-04, 02:27 PM	Alternately, see if you could Swap your first level feat for Versatile: Hide/Move Silently. Sacrifice scribe scroll. Then Go: Cleric7/Divine Disciple1. Take the Travel Domain, which gives you Survival as class skill. Survival replaces Inuit Direction and Wilderness Lore, both requirements for Windwalker. Take another level of DD to get Survival up and you should be able to Switch into Windwalker. So Cleric7/DivineDisciple2/WindwalkerX? Feats: 1 Versatile, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Spear) 3 Divine Might 6 Lightning Reflexes 9 Track ... This doesn't help you in the short-term of course, and might not be workable at all. But a skill-boosting item strategy, coupled with Funny's advice like wieldskill, could help significantly.
Drock 02-03-04, 02:33 PM	I dont think i have F&P at the moment. could someone tell me if there are any other goodies that ocme with the prestige class? i understand that you cant just spill out everything but some sense of what else the PrC gives? As for switching out the feats, i've already scribed scrolls. I feel sure i could get him to go for switching greatsword for spear. I dont mind picking up the other feats but it may take me a while. thanks for all the help guys!
rilem 02-03-04, 02:38 PM	There are class abilities like cold resistance, feather fall, etc. But really, full BAB and full spellcasting is pretty great on its own. There are only a handful of PrCs that offer that combo. Other bit of advice: The Nimbleness armor enhancement, from Magic of Faerun. Drastically cuts the armor penalty.
MegaPlex 02-03-04, 02:42 PM	Originally posted by Drock Ok, here are my scores Str 14 Dex 12 Con 16 Wis 18 Int 13 Cha 17 If you are thinking about light armor, how about bracers, ring prot, etc and then a level of Monk. Monk has all the skills you wanted as class skills and you would get a +4 to AC from your Wis bonus. I would recommend against taking any class that does not have a spell casting progression, but Monk is one of the better choices if you do.
catharz 02-03-04, 03:25 PM	Rather then a level of Monk, you could buy a Monk's belt ;) However, a Mythril Breastplate + Magic vestiment might be a better idea.
Drock 02-03-04, 03:26 PM	Some of you have suggested that i try mithril armor. I guess its lighter but will it allow me to have more move or is it just great for weight and armor checks? My other problem with all the heavier armors is the cost. i'm going broke trying to buy magical plate. maybe i should just save up a bit. thanks again for the advice
LordShade 02-04-04, 03:24 AM	rilem's windwalker idea is very good. Alternately or in conjunction, if you switch to light armor, get yourself a reach weapon like a longspear (fits with your deity too). This way you can hang back behind the 3 fighters and still hit enemies with your reach weapon, and still be able to move around enough to heal anybody that's hurt.
Funny Slaughter 02-04-04, 05:49 AM	i think odin would be better suited with the stormlord, a PrC originally developed for a priest of talos. not as good as a windwalker, but not bad either and with great roleplaying potential. gs Funny
pawsplay 02-04-04, 03:22 PM	Just stick with cleric. Switch to masterwork studded leather, or, when you can get it, mithril stuff. For your next Feat, take Divine Shield. Or just learn to be more careful.
Drock 02-04-04, 03:25 PM	Thanks guys. I'm going to look into the prestige classes you recommended and i talked to my dm last night. i was able to get some +1 chainmail to replace my plate. I even had enough cash left over to buy a scroll of divination for the raid we're about to do on the local thieves guild. wish me luck!