Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RatlingMonk 06-28-04, 01:18 AM	List of Available Sources: Corebooks, Splatbooks, FRCS, (maybe) BoVD. No PRCs (my main point of trouble) but Gestalt build is available. We are using 3.0 rules. Starting Stats Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Cha: 12 (Willing to change if better option presents itself) I wanted to do a sneak attack type of build (maxing initiative) but with the gestalt option I was thinking I could combine this somehow with a light fighter. I can't choose between Barb/Rogue or Fgt/Rogue. I was planning on using a Chainshirt for armor and a Greatsword for my main weapon. I know alot of people like the spring attack build but that doesn't really appeal to me (My char w/ the d12/d10 levels will have the HP to stay and fight). I just can't decide if it's better to try for more feats or take the bigger HD and rage, along w/ the added Barb movement. Could use some help deciding...
Funny Slaughter 06-28-04, 03:54 AM	the key to gestalt is to get as much synergy as possible. this means that you have to combine classes that are quite different from eachother. a fighter/barbarian for example does not have big potential. on the other hand take a look at a rogue/druid: full spellcasting full wildshape 8 skillpoints/lvl sneak-attack try to find the different qualities lile BAB, HD, skillpoints, spellcasting etc as different as your ideas allow it. gs Funny
charlesatan 06-28-04, 11:01 AM	Funny Slaughter is right about building two-synergistic classes. Since you're intent on melee, you'll have to weigh in the pros and cons between the Fighter and the Barbarian. The Fighter has bonus feats and Weapon Specialization (the heavy armor proficiency isn't exactly to your benefit at the moment). The Barbarian has Rage and better HD (although if raging, your AC will be quite low). Of course since it's 2nd-level, you can probably get away with raging and then making a sneak attack on your opponents to knock them down in one blow. The only problem I have with rage is that at low-levels, you can only rage a few times per day.
CompleteSatori 06-28-04, 11:52 AM	Here's an alternate route to godlike characterness... Rogue 2/Favored Soul 2 Sure you don't have the bonus feats, and your base attack stays at 3/4, but ALL of your saves are favored, you have 8+Int skills with helpful choices from the FS skill selection, and you can maximize you Charisma based skills (need a high Charisma, change that to a 16 if you are on a point buy system), while maintaining a spontaneous spellcasting progression with the Cleric spell list. (The FS gets LOTS of known spells btw, many more than a Sorcerer). I mention this pairing primarily because you mention that there are no PrC's in your game, and with the Rogue's Special Abilities past level 10, plus Weapon Focus/Specialization, multiple Energy Resists, Wings and DR, you have lots of abilities, can increase your Base Attack to a Full progression with one spell (and think about Divine Metamagic-Persist-), and full buffing plus healing... Its a deadly combination of classes for what you are looking for. 10d6 Sneak Attack plus Improved Evasion and 9th level Divine spells. Not too shabby. EDIT: Choose a Diety who's weapon is either a Shortsword, Daggers, or Kukri's so that you can Two Weapon Fight with your Focus/Specialization weapon.
42up 06-28-04, 03:28 PM	The most synergetic core gestalt build IMO is the monk/druid. Focus on wild-shaping and your good to go. Heck, everything can be your dump stat with that build. 18 wisdom is the only thing you really need once you get wildshape.
amalcon 06-28-04, 03:36 PM	At low levels, and without PrC's, I like the Fonk: Fighter 2/Monk 2 Fighter makes up for the monk's main drawbacks (d6 HP, only medium BAB), Monk makes up for the Fighter's main drawbacks (bad reflex+will and skills). If this campaign keeps going for very long, then my personal favorite, the Ranger/Wizard moves into the limelight: d8 hp full BAB all good saves Wizard spellcasting 6 skill points/lvl animal comanion (not a great one, but it will make a good scout)... Another that's fun to play around with is (oddly enough) the Cleric/Druid. At first glance this doesn't look that great -- they have the same BAB, same saves, and often-overlapping spellcasting. However, it really comes into its own when you start sharing all those selfonly spells with your animal companion. Imagine a divine favor/divine power/animal growth'ed Dire Lion, Dire Wolf, or even ordinary Horse (you can ride these). It can probably take your average fighter ALONE. This works pretty well with Sorcerer/Druid, Wizard/Druid, or especially Psion/Druid (that one's probably even better than Cleric/Druid if done properly).
Naja 06-29-04, 08:27 AM	Originally posted by CompleteSatori Here's an alternate route to godlike characterness... Rogue 2/Favored Soul 2 I second that. But if you couldn´t take Favored Soul the next best route will be rogue/cleric: all saves favored, with divine might you get your full BAB and with well chosen domains you can get some very nice spells available too. With your written choices for weapon I´d go with a dwarven Cleric of Haela Brightaxe (Luck and War domains to get the Greatsword). Edited: Just noticed you play 3.0: forget this: If you can use stuff from Complete Divine (something like Divine Metamagic (Persistant)): Human Cleric of Sharess (Charm and Travel domain) :)
Aramas 06-29-04, 11:11 AM	Not an entirely pertinant question, but... What is the LA for a Gestalt character?
CompleteSatori 06-29-04, 11:21 AM	Not just a not pertinent question, also not really a question. Gestalt characters (if you somehow have missed every other Gestalt thread here) are an option inside the Unearthed Arcana book, where every NPC and character has the combination of 2 classes of their choice every level, raising the power level of the game, and the CR of their combats by 1-2. It gets somewhat complicated, and it is a choice that has to change the whole game you are in, there cannot be simply one Gestalt character inside of a normal DnD game, everyone who has character levels must have 2 of them per level. You combine the best attributes of each at each level.
cowdragon 06-29-04, 11:49 AM	if it's Gestalt AND 3.0 then definetly go with a spellcaster! I'm not kidding. In 3.0 you didn't get nerfed on any spellcasting things. You get spell focus and greater spell focus at +4 DC. Then bump it even more with shadow weave magic and such. Go even higher with tattoo focus. Be something cool like a wizard(specialist)/fighter or something. Fighter for hit points and base attack bonus. Wizards for mondo spells and meta-magic feats. That would be my recommendation. Then, if PRC's are ever allowed you take archemage and spellpower. Dc's into the 30-40 range. Far out daddio!!:cool: The Cowdragon :mage:
Naja 06-30-04, 03:13 AM	So, you´re going Gestalt with 3.0: Unlike Cowdragon I would not take "something cool like fighter/wizard". The best Gestalt builds are utilizing synergies between the classes. Your Stats look fine, but consider dropping Strength a bit for this (you´re using 3.0 Divine Power that is) So here´s what I propose (getting full base attack all day at level 15) Human Rogue/Cleric of Gond (FRCS) Domains: Planning (Free Extend Spell) and Metal (Weapon Proficiency&Focus: any Hammer, take the Maul from the FRCS) Feats you have to take: First level: Spellcasting Prodigy (FRCS) [you get free: Extend Spell, Weapon Proficiency:Maul, Weapon Focus: Maul) sixth: Empower Spell ninth: Persistant Spell (FRCS,T&B) Then you´re almost free to take whatever feats you like to (enhance your battle prowess or spellcasting) You end up with: -All saves favored -medium BAB until you get Divine Power(which is Persistant at level 15), but Divine Favor (Persistant at level 9) should make up for this... -nearly all skills as class skills - 11 skill points per level - 5 Feats you can use at will to take the fighter feats you liked - all the brokenness of the 3.0 Cleric without it´s disadvantages If your DM allows you could use some sort of ironwood maul to get Spikes (DotF) on it.
RatlingMonk 07-01-04, 04:38 AM	I finally looked at the cleric spells everyone was talking about (I'd never played one usually I just do a tank fighter) and it is alot better class than I realized. I am definately leaning toward the rogue cleric combo you just posted though, it seemed like I could have some fun with it. I see what you are saying w/ lowering the strength since I can bring it up to 18 with divine power, on the 32 pt buy how would you set up the stats? I was thinking then Str: 12 Dex: 14 Con:14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 (16 w/ SCP) Cha: 14
Naja 07-01-04, 10:38 AM	Originally posted by RatlingMonk Str: 12 Dex: 14 Con:14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 (16 w/ SCP) Cha: 14 Depends on your favorite fighting style: if you´re going to take advantage of the trip/expertise chain I would lower Charisma and get Int 14. Otherwise this looks good (though I´d never play a character with Int under 14; but then again I like to have many skills). Another (good) option is to get more into your prime casting stat: Str: 12 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 15 (17 through Spellcasting Prodigy) Cha: 12 will net you a lot more than Cha: 14.