Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aethon 02-10-05, 01:58 AM	a friend of mine has gotten it in his head that this is the greatest build for a fighter that wants to deal damage: 3 human paragon/2 fighter (these are the classes i'm taking, no changes can be made) 2 feats and first level, bonus from paragon, 3rd level feat, 1st and 2nd level fighter feats: -two weapon fighting -two weapon defense -exotic weapon prof: bastard sword (use them one handed) -monkey grip (for the large size onehanded bastard (2d8 damge) -oversized two weapon fighting (for the one handed weapon to be considered light, and therefore only a -2 to attack rolls) -weapon focus: bastard sword so far, my character has base abilities: (which i have no problem rearranging) 17 (str) 15 (dex) 16 (con) 14 (int) 14 (wis) 8 (cha) we start at 5th level, so that's a +1 ability; also, levels 1-3 are human paragon, so that's another +2 to one ability he says i should put all into STR and have a 20 natural, then ogre power glove of +2 for some wicked damage that would give me a 6 on attack rolls (22 STR= +6, +4 BAB, -2 monkey grip, -2 2WF and 2d8 + 6 main hand; 2d8 +3 off hand my main question is regarding natural vs enhancement for feat prereq's imp 2WF and greater 2WF both require a higher DEX (as does 2W defense) i can only think of a few feats that require an extremely high STR, and those you can't get until epic levels anyway (overwhelming crit, dev crit) also, do you guys think this is a good build; personally, i was going for kukri's or scimitars for increased crit threats, and boosting my DEX; but this seems pretty good
Feldspar 02-10-05, 02:08 AM	IIRC, monkey grip can't be used on a weapon in your offhand.
Lord Likk 02-10-05, 02:16 AM	but it has some problems. first and foremost, i'm sorry to say that monkey grip doesn't do that; it allows you to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand, not a weapon you can't wield in two or one hand. secondly, the fullblade is the 'large' bastard sword you're looking for. exotic weapon prof will allow you to wield it in two hands, and monkey grip will make it one at an attack penalty. secondly, you could save a feat by waiting a level for exotic weapon prof, and taking a lvl in samurai to get it for free (trouble is: a bastard sword is not a fullblade, unless you count the fact that it says it is in its entry). anyway, this is by no means the only way to achieve high damage with a non-caster. by the way, is that what you mean by fighter, or do you mean a non-barb, non-hurler, non-sneak attacker, non-caster?
Xalphe 02-10-05, 05:36 AM	sorry to burst anyones bubble but monkey grip is now in complete warrior and it allows you to wield a weapon larger than you at no extra effort appart from a -2 penalty on attacks for each size it is larger than you. so a human could wield a large longsword in one hand doing 2D6 damage with the feat. but without it they would need to use both hands to wield it and would still take the penalty on attack. The fullblade doesnt exsist anymore in 3.5 as the weapon size rules changed. I liked the sword and fist rules for monkey grip which you were on about, we just call it oversized grip and allow both in the game. :cool: The char he came up with would be a good idea but I would boost the dex not the str as you need the better two weapon fighting feats to make it worth not takeing a shield. take improved buckler defence instead of the two weapon defence feats as its cheaper on feats and you can still get it enchanted.
dagger 02-10-05, 08:08 AM	[QUOTE=Lord Likk]but it has some problems. first and foremost, i'm sorry to say that monkey grip doesn't do that; it allows you to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand.QUOTE] This is incorrect for 3.5 Complete Warrior Monkey Grip
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 09:49 AM	Well, you can wield a 2-handed weapon in one hand with monkey grip, but only if you're the right size category to do it. What you CANNOT do, as I understand it from a Customer Service email I got on the subject, is monkey-grip anything in an "off-hand" (at least, I think that's how they clarified it. It's been a while). If you do that, you get a rather severe penalty to attack. So the Oversized TWF feat would work, but the Monkey Grip would only apply to the primary hand.
dagger 02-10-05, 10:08 AM	So you could do that Large Bastard Sword in primary and a normal bastard sword in your off hand? I'd like to see how often you would actually hit creatures in the CR 15+ range.
Jeremymc 02-10-05, 10:24 AM	Well, I suppose so. Depends what the rules for "Oversized TWF" are. All I asked about is Monkey Grip. And it wouldn't be too too hard. You'd have a -2 to hit from Monkey grip... And is there another minus from "Oversized TWF".
Lord Likk 02-10-05, 10:38 AM	dagger, what's incorrect about it? my cw is at my friend's apartment. do you have yours on hand to quote and prove me wrong? also, there is no such thing as a large bastard sword. weapons don't have size categories anymore, as xalphe pointed out. even so, it's not as if a halfling can wield a bastard sword that does the same damage as a human's if he's exotically proficient in it. likewise, a human can't wield an ogre's bastard sword (one that deals as much damage) no matter how proficient he is in it. xalphe, i'm pretty damn sure the fullblade does exist in 3.5. in 3.0, it was errata'd down to 2d6 damage, but in the cw, i believe it was officially printed as 2d8 for the first time. if it's not cw, it may have been in savage species that they printed a two-handed exotic 2d8 weapon. even if they didn't, it should exist as long as johvar does.
dagger 02-10-05, 10:39 AM	Oversized lets you use a non-light one handed weapon in your off hand and use the penalties as if it was a light weapon.
Xalphe 02-10-05, 12:06 PM	fullblade is from arms and equipment. Alot of things in arms and equipment have been found in the complete series. I think I would agree that you cant use monkey grip in your off hand. Yes you would be doing a lot of damage but you wouldnt hit that oftern and you would be getting the snot beat out of you for not haveing a shield and as any encounter would last that round or two longer which is never good. :eek: if you want to do loads of damage just play a half giant or goliath as they get monkey grip but better as a racial ability and for one level adjustment they are good choices for max damage.
dagger 02-10-05, 12:25 PM	Monkey Grip allows you to use a Large Longsword in one hand, not a Greatsword. Yes, it does not make sense, but that is the rule.
aethon 02-10-05, 01:01 PM	excatly, since exotic WP: bastard sword allows you to weild it as a one handed weapon, it allows you to weild a large size bastard sword as a onehanded weapon i also for got to add in the WF: bastard sword into my main/off hand attack bonus; i'd be at a +7 to hit in each hand
aethon 02-10-05, 01:07 PM	anyway, this is by no means the only way to achieve high damage with a non-caster. by the way, is that what you mean by fighter, or do you mean a non-barb, non-hurler, non-sneak attacker, non-caster? i mean fighter, from the core rule book (you guys remember those don't you :-P) and i guess an ambiguious answer to my second question was that feat prerequisits must be natural (ie, i have a 15 natural DEX and gloves of DEX +4 so i still can't take a feat that requires DEX 19)
dagger 02-10-05, 01:09 PM	But Monkey Grip still does not work for your off hand
Baneslayer 02-10-05, 01:16 PM	Favor Dex over Str, you want that 17 Dex for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at level 6 and the 19 for Greater Two-Weapon at 11. It says in the Monkey Grip write-up that you can't use a larger weapon in your off-hand or a larger double weapon. Lg Bastard Sword Main-Hand, Bastard Sword off-hand -2 for Monkey Grip -2/-2 for Oversized Two-Weapons So you are -4/-2 to hit, +5 Bab, +3 from Str 17, +1 WF = total attack +5/+7, Damage 2d8+3/1d10+1 It just seems like the worst of both worlds. Take the Str to 20 and you still are +7/+9, 2d8+5/1d10+2 vs +9/+9 1d10+5/1d10+2. Swap WS:Bastard Sword for MG and it is 1d10+7/1d10+4. Fast averages: MG combo vs Spec combo - MG 14+7.5=21.5 dam Spec 12.5+9.5=22 dam; so on Average a little more damage (0.5 pts), but a greater (+2) chance of hitting with the main hand which greatly favors the Specialization build over the Monkey Grip build - what good is 2d8 over 1d10 if you can't hit as often with the 2d8? Using other common fighting builds - Monkey Grip + Lg Twohander, Monkey Grip + Lg Sword and Shield Feats: MG, WF: (fav 2hander) or EWP:Bastard Sword, Power Attack Monkey Grip + Lg Greatsword or Great Axe = +9 attk, 3d6+7 (av 17.5 dam), Max Power Attack (-5/+10): +4, 3d6+17 (27.5 average damage) Monkey Grip + Lg Bastard Sword + Shield = +8 attk, 2d8+5 dam, Shield AC; Max Power Attack (-5/+5): +3, 2d8+10 I'd recommend you go the Large Two Hander with Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack/Power Attack combo because that is just sick damage and it keeps you out of harms way. Otherwise drop Monkey Grip and go the Dual-Bastard Sword build with Specialization.
maven50312 02-10-05, 01:28 PM	Later down the line, take Tempest levels from Complete Adventurer because now it's a decent class. Also, consider the feat Oversized TWF or something like that from CAdventurer as well. Personally, I'd prefer Goliath over human if going down the TWF path. That way, they CAN wield larger weapons in their offhand(as per Powerful Build which gives them other nifty things), they take a dex penalty of -2, but get +4 str and +2 con all for a +1 LA... it's a great deal in my opinion. Just my thoughts
Lord Likk 02-10-05, 01:36 PM	by large bastard sword, do you guys mean the one in the 3.5 phb, or an upsized version of it? do you mean the one 'for medium characters' in the phb? personally, i prefer the old weapon size rules, and my group still uses them. we find it easier to make our own weapons that way and keep them balanced. aethon, in light of the fact that you were originally asking for suggestions, i was wondering if you were bent on playing a fighter, or whether you'd be willing to play a melee character with only one or two levels in fighter. there's honestly no reason to take any more than that. are you bent on continuing fighter? were you planning on starting a prc soon anyway? i'm not familiar with the tempest, but i do know the dervish, and that's right up your alley for this build. also, you can use items to qualify for feats and prc's. but if you or the item gets dispelled, you lose the feat by losing its reqs. when the dispel wears off, you'll get the feat back. xalphe, it was arms and equipment guide! originally, it was in sword and fist, but that of course isn't legal anymore. fortunately, a&eg technically is. you know that table near the beginning of the book that points out a few of the self-evident changes from 3.0 to 3.5 (alchemy is now craft (alchemy), expertise is now combat expertise, etc.)? well that, coupled with some promises wizards made, makes it a 3.5 compatible book. also, good point about the races. any melee build will benefit a lot from augmented size (or plain ol' large-ness), but i don't think aethon can add that into his character now, except through a ritual, perhaps. dagger, how can the feat possibly be that specific? again, i don't have the book here, so i can't positively refute you, but will you explain yourself less concisely, if only for my sake?
Arkat 02-10-05, 03:17 PM	But Monkey Grip still does not work for your off hand Where does it say that? Not in the Complete Warrior which is where the actual feat is. If there was some rule saying you can only use a Light weapon in your off-hand, I would agree Monkey Grip would not apply to your off-hand. However, there is no such rule. Therefore, unless I see some errata for the Complete Warrior stating otherwise, I say Monkey Grip applies to your off-hand.
Todd 02-10-05, 04:31 PM	Where does it say that? Not in the Complete Warrior which is where the actual feat is. If there was some rule saying you can only use a Light weapon in your off-hand, I would agree Monkey Grip would not apply to your off-hand. However, there is no such rule. Therefore, unless I see some errata for the Complete Warrior stating otherwise, I say Monkey Grip applies to your off-hand. CW p104. Last Sentence before Normal: in the Monkey Grip feat description. "You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat to wield a double weapon."
aethon 02-10-05, 05:12 PM	ok, a few things: 1) yes, i was mostly bent on making a fighter, i was going to be the up close fighter of our group 2) whilst he doesn't mind different feats, our DM has gotten a bit tired of all the different classes out there(with the exception of paragons, he feels they are more RP based classes); not to mention races that exsist (he doen't allow elves either). i had wanted to try dervish, however i do not think he will go for it 3) you can't take weapon spec until you hit 4th level of fighter, as noted, i'm taking 3 levels of human paragon 4) maven50312, if you would have read, i did take oversized 2WF 5) speaking of which, oversized 2WF states you are adept at wielding lager then normal weapons in your off hand; when wielding a one handed weapon in your off hand, you take penelties for fighting as if you were wielding a light weapon in your off hand. Monkey grip says w/o this feat a large longsword would be a 2 handed weapon, w/ this feat it's still considered one handed; so in essence, these feats are a bit contradictory but your points are the same ones i brought up to him; utimately, i'd have to get the rulling from my DM
ancalimohtar 02-10-05, 07:08 PM	What the heck are you talking about, Lord Likk? The fullblade is NOT 3.5E compatible because the weapon size rules underwent a complete overhaul. They used to just go by size--now they go by both size and handedness. You can usually convert 3.0 size to 3.5 size + handedness, but the fullblade had a size "Huge," which is a category above Large. 3.0 Large weapons end up as 3.5 Two-handed Medium weapons--what would a 3.0 Huge weapon end up as? A 3.5 three-handed weapon? It's ridiculous, and it's meaningless. The whole point of a Fullblade is a greatsword for Large creatures. So a 3.5 Fullblade is just a Large greatsword. Meaning Monkeygrip will allow you to wield it as a Medium greatsword. And as Todd and others have pointed out, Monkeygrip only affects two-handed weapons and main-hand weapons, not double weapons, and not off-hand weapons. Baneslayer's analysis is correct--this combination of feats for wielding two bastard swords is suboptimal, at least until much higher levels.
PhaedrusXY 02-10-05, 07:38 PM	The whole point of a Fullblade is a greatsword for Large creatures. No, it was not. It was a bastard sword for large creatures. Its nickname was an "ogre's bastard sword". Humans could not wield what would be a greatsword for an ogre at all in 3.0. The fullblade was wieldable as a two-handed weapon by an ogre as a martial weapon, or as a one-handed weapon as an exotic weapon, exactly as a bastard sword is for a human. A human could wield a fullblade as a two-handed weapon with an Exotic weapon proficiency. In 3.5, a fullblade would be a large sized bastard sword. It would be a two-handed martial weapon for large creatures, and wieldable with one hand for large creatures with EWP: Fullblade. Whether or not it's possible to dual wield fullblades is a secondary issue as far as I'm concerned, as two-weapon fighting is a crappy fighting style for a strong fighter. Just drop the idea entirely, and get a two-handed weapon and use Power Attack. All the Wield Oversized Weapon, Monkey Grip, and other feats similiar to this are nothing but munchkin traps. If you want to wield bigger than normal weapons, play a goliath or half-giant. Forget all these stupid feats that give you attack penalties, as THEY ARE NOT WORTH IT. Let me do a simple comparison: a human fighter wielding a normal greatsword vs. a human fighter wielding a large sized greatsword. Normal Fighter takes Power Attack. His weapon does 2d6 damage (average 7), and if he takes a -2 penalty to his attacks, he adds +4 to his damage (average 11). Other Fighter takes Monkey Grip. His weapon does 2d8 damage (average 9), but he takes a -2 penalty to attacks all the time. So the guy with the normal two-handed sword does more damage than the guy monkey-gripping a large two-handed sword, and he can choose to not take the -2 attack penalty if he's facing an enemy with a high AC. Even if you say the large greatsword does 2d10 damage, so that the average damage is the same, the guy with the normal sword still has the advantage of not having to take a -2 to his attacks if he doesn't want to.
Zaffudo 02-10-05, 08:13 PM	Okay, why is this difficult? The full blade 100% exists in 3.5, it just isn’t called that anymore. It doesn’t need to be called that anymore, as the entire weapon size thing was overhauled (for the worse IMO). Unfortunately, the original build still isn’t valid (though it’s close), so I’ll lay it out step by step to clear up any confusion. First, someone asked what the term “Large Bastard Sword” meant. In 3.5 whenever anyone refers to a “Large” weapon it means a weapon designed to be used by a large creature/character. A “Small” weapon is designed for small creatures, “Huge” for huge creatures etc. This means that a longsword designed for an Ogre is a larger version of longsword which does 2d6 damage. He can wield it in one hand and any feats or abilities the ogre has with a longsword (ie. Weapon Focus, Longsword) apply when he fights with this weapon. A Medium Greatsword (a greatsword designed for Medium Creatures) has the same stats – 2d6 damage 19-20 x2 – as a Large Longsword, but it is not the same thing. If an Ogre were to try and wield a Medium Greatsword, he would suffer a -2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size, and would not gain any benefit for from feats he has that only apply to the longsword. Also, when you use a weapon with a size that wasn’t designed for you, the amount of effort it takes to wield is increased/decreased accordingly. Meaning if a weapon is usually a one handed weapon for me, and I use a version of that weapon designed for a creature one size category larger then me, it takes two hands. If I use a smaller version of a two-handed weapon, I can use it in one hand. This means that I cannot wield a two-handed weapon designed for a creature larger then me, because there is no category beyond 2-handed. For more info, check the SRD. Now let’s look at Monkey Grip. It allows you to use a weapon one size category larger then you are, with no increase in effort. So now, with monkey grip, if I use a one-handed weapon designed for a creature larger then I am, it is still a one handed weapon. This also means that I can now wield a two-handed weapon designed for a creature larger then me, I just have to use 2 hands. It also specifically states I cannot wield a larger weapon in my offhand. So, with that in mind let’s look at the Bastard sword. A medium bastard sword is 1d10 19-20 x2. That means that a large bastard sword is 2d8 19-20 x2. A normal human can wield a medium bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon. (No Exotic Feat required) Thus, if I were to take Monkey Grip I could I could wield a large bastard sword in two-hands. If I were to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency I can wield a Bastard Sword in one hand. Thus if I were to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency & Monkey Grip I could use a Large Bastard Sword in one hand. Thus we have replicated a Full Blade. A one handed weapon that does 2d8 19-20 x2. The old flavor text even referred to it as a Ogre’s Bastard sword, and in this case it is exactly that. Now, on to the two-weapon fighting part: Technically speaking, the bastard sword is a one-handed weapon. The SRD says so. That means it does qualify for the Over-Sized two weapon fighting feat. Though because Monkey Grip doesn’t work with your offhand, you’ll be using a large bastard sword in your primary hand & a regular sized one in your off hand. Edit: I didn’t see your post at all Phaedrus. You beat me to the Fullblade thing. I had also thought about mentioning that PA is just plain better, but I figured I’d rambled long enough
HoshiAdam 02-10-05, 10:19 PM	Whether or not it's possible to dual wield fullblades is a secondary issue as far as I'm concerned, as two-weapon fighting is a crappy fighting style for a strong fighter. Just drop the idea entirely, and get a two-handed weapon and use Power Attack. With Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, a TWF can Power Attack just as well as a THF. This is because the off-hand weapon is now one-handed, so it power attacks 1 for 1. The TWF does lose out on single attack chances (charge, spring attack), so THF does have a slight edge there. Except the TWF still has the option of THF for single attacks. It comes down to feat cost in the long run. The TWF option is much more feat intensive, which for some builds is too much. I guess my main point is that if you want to go for the OTWF-Power Attack-whirling bastard swords of doom it is possible. I do agree with Phaedrus about the weapon size feats that give a penalty - until you start stacking several effects together, they aren't worth it.
Baneslayer 02-10-05, 10:36 PM	5) speaking of which, oversized 2WF states you are adept at wielding lager then normal weapons in your off hand; when wielding a one handed weapon in your off hand, you take penelties for fighting as if you were wielding a light weapon in your off hand. Monkey grip says w/o this feat a large longsword would be a 2 handed weapon, w/ this feat it's still considered one handed; so in essence, these feats are a bit contradictory Not at all. Oversized 2WF says you can use a 1-handed weapon in your off-hand as if it was a light weapon i.e. at -2/-2 penalty instead of -4/-4. Monky Grip says you cannot use the Monkey Grip feat to wield a Large weapon in your off-hand nor can you use it to wield a Large Double-Weapon. There is no contradiction. Monkey Grip does not turn a Large 1-handed weapon into a normal 1-Handed weapon, O2WF doesn't apply. Monkey Grip does not let you wield a Large Weapon in your Off Hand, not even a Large sized light weapon. It plainly says it doesn't, so it doesn't - not even a little. That seems pretty cut and dried to me.
Jeremymc 02-11-05, 12:33 PM	you are adept at wielding lager then normal weapons in your off hand Yah, I'd rather wield a Lager in my off hand too. Much better on a Friday night.
dagger 02-11-05, 12:40 PM	Not at all. Oversized 2WF says you can use a 1-handed weapon in your off-hand as if it was a light weapon i.e. at -2/-2 penalty instead of -4/-4. Monky Grip says you cannot use the Monkey Grip feat to wield a Large weapon in your off-hand nor can you use it to wield a Large Double-Weapon. There is no contradiction. Monkey Grip does not turn a Large 1-handed weapon into a normal 1-Handed weapon, O2WF doesn't apply. Monkey Grip does not let you wield a Large Weapon in your Off Hand, not even a Large sized light weapon. It plainly says it doesn't, so it doesn't - not even a little. That seems pretty cut and dried to me. Thank you Baneslayer for writing it in a clear manner. :)
Lord Likk 02-11-05, 01:23 PM	You can usually convert 3.0 size to 3.5 size + handedness, but the fullblade had a size "Huge," which is a category above Large. 3.0 Large weapons end up as 3.5 Two-handed Medium weapons--what would a 3.0 Huge weapon end up as? A 3.5 three-handed weapon? It's ridiculous, and it's meaningless. yes, that is ridiculous and meaningless. it becomes a two-handed large weapon, man. furthermore, just because the weapon size rules changed doesn't mean the old weapons for non-medium/-small creatures don't exist anymore. the fullblade is easily converted to 3.5 and easily quantified as still balanced compared to such weapons as the greatsword, jovar, and longsword.
Lord Likk 02-11-05, 01:27 PM	Now let’s look at Monkey Grip. It allows you to use a weapon one size category larger then you are, with no increase in effort. that's not what it does at all. it allows you to wield a weapon of the same size as you that's two-handed, as though it were one-handed for you. it does not, however, change its size category at all, and it does not allow you to wield weapons a member of your race could not have wielded two-handed. not even in the least.
DreamWeaver 02-11-05, 01:58 PM	Lord Likk: I know you've mentioned your CW is at a friend's house so I highly suggest you regain possesion of it and read the Monkey Grip feat again. It clearly states that the feat does not allow you to wield a normal sized (for your character) 2-handed weapon as if it were a 1-handed weapon. Instead, 3.5e, it now allows you to wield a large sized (for your character) 2-handed weapon as if it were sized for you (in relation to how many hands you have to use to wield it, with the same applying to large sized 1-handed weapons and large sized lite weapons). You keep repeating yourself, and people keep trying to explain it to you. Please, go get your CW. Read the Monkey Grip feat again. All will become clearer as you pass into the 3.5e realm of reality. :D
Lord Likk 02-11-05, 02:10 PM	i'm not going to bother explaining why, but suffice to say that i won't be able to get that book for several days, at least. on top of that, i am literally 100% sure that what you are saying it does in 3.5 is basically what it used to do and no longer does in 3.5. i guess all that really matters is how sure aethon is, but won't one of these people who just KNOW i'm wrong do me the courtesy and do themselves the dignity of proving it?
Welt 02-11-05, 02:37 PM	Oh fer christ's sake... From Complete Warrior, page 103: Monkey Grip [General] You are able to use a larger weapon than other people your size. Prereqiusites: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to wield the weapon does not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon. You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, or a larger two-handed weapon in two hands. You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon. Normal: You can sue a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger one-handed weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all. A bit of advice Lord Likk: when everyone is telling you that you're wrong, it's time to consider that you might actually be wrong.
Lord Likk 02-11-05, 02:56 PM	i am humbled. i understand what you mean, welt, but i think that's philosophically and morally pretty bad advice.
Caelic 02-11-05, 04:30 PM	Large bastards? Did somebody call...oh, wait. You're talking about swords. Ahem. Carry on. ;)
Arkat 02-11-05, 05:18 PM	CW p104. Last Sentence before Normal: in the Monkey Grip feat description. "You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat to wield a double weapon." Oops! Boy do I feel foolish. I swear I read that darned feat before making my post but apparently, I didn't read it well enough! Thanks for pointing out my error!
aethon 02-16-05, 06:19 PM	Normal: You can sue a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a -2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. well, i hope it i can sue it while drinking my lager
Xalphe 02-19-05, 06:05 PM	I swear that line wasnt there when I last looked too, its those damm kobolds(sorry players) writeing in my books again. Well I am sticking to the story that it wasnt there when I made the NPC 's that attacked the party last game or I could just say they were human goliath crossbreeds and had big arms. OOPS. Monkey grip is a good feat I think we can all agree on that. Its not so good when used with two weapon fighting but thats the trade off for trying to hit a goblin with a 8 foot sword. Now to make a goliath ranger with monkey grip, power attack, favoured powerattack and a whole load of other ranger feats that will kill humans. That teach them to light a camp fire in his wood.
Jeremymc 02-20-05, 12:40 AM	i am humbled. i understand what you mean, welt, but i think that's philosophically and morally pretty bad advice. Philosophically? Morally? I don't know what your understanding of this game is, but you probably shouldn't base your MORALITY on it. You may have the police beating down your door soon enough... Especially with all the lager you'll be drinking.