3.0 game--Forsaker? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.0 game--Forsaker? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mod5000
02-20-07, 09:26 PM I'll soon be started on a 3.0 game, and while dusting off and perusing Masters of the Wild, I came across the Forsaker PrC, which looked interesting.

Is it any good? Fast Healing (but limited :( ), SR (but not enough to be very effective at high levels), Con-to-AC (used to 3.5 and Deepwarden, so not impressed much, though it might be BIG in 3.0...), and an ability score bonus every level. All in exchange for any magical items I ever had, and will ever use.

Any advice playing one of these? And what's a good way to optimize it 3.0? Is it even worth it, what with forsaking all use of magic items?

(Thinking Human Barb 3 / Forsaker 10 / Frenzied Berserker 7... good/bad? advice? Haven't played 3.0 in a while now, so I might be forgetting something...)
kabof
02-20-07, 09:35 PM Books avaiable? If BoED is legal, Vow of Poverty is the option.
mod5000
02-20-07, 09:37 PM Basically, Core+SaF/SaS/ToB/MotW.
Nothing 3.25 or 3.5, and I can't think of anything else that's from that era.
Tomada
02-20-07, 10:56 PM well... it's usually not worth it. There has been a lot of discussion about these guys.

They simply hate magic.

You will have a hard time with your party's magical itens, and even more with the party spellcaster.

I would love it the forsaker drew energy from the destroyed itens, instead of just exploding everything magical and the party be dammed.

if it wasn't for that, the forsaker would be viable, kind of.

even with vow of poverty I would think twice before entering it.

put something on the top shelf and sudenlly you can't reach it since you can't fly nor can someone cast it on you.
Maybe it's not that bad, but I think you understand me.
ksbsnowowl
02-20-07, 11:11 PM The most effective and character-driven way to play a Forsaker, in my opinion, is to focus your character around sundering. Sunder that magical shield, or what have you, and gain your powers.
Angelsolar
02-21-07, 10:36 AM For a Forsaker, I'd use a Drow..given that the Forsaker SR stack with any other SR of an other Source (at 20 level you'll have 52SR:D )
Think0028
02-21-07, 10:54 AM One problem with Forsaker + VoP that I remember from a sig somewhere:

Remember, you can't break magic items for forsaker since you need to donate it all for VoP. Magic is evil! So give it to the orphans!
ksbsnowowl
02-21-07, 12:26 PM One problem with Forsaker + VoP that I remember from a sig somewhere:Remember, you can't break magic items for forsaker since you need to donate it all for VoP. Magic is evil! So give it to the orphans!That's why you build your character around sundering. You don't have to donate it if it's not yours. You just break it because you hate it (and it gives you powers).
Xaktsaroth
02-21-07, 02:00 PM According to my copy of Masters of the Wild, the only benefit a Forsaker gets for breaking a magic item is his DR. All his other class abilities are just dependent on him not casting spells or using SLA's.
Kurama Youko
02-21-07, 02:35 PM ...
ksbsnowowl
02-21-07, 04:03 PM According to my copy of Masters of the Wild, the only benefit a Forsaker gets for breaking a magic item is his DR. All his other class abilities are just dependent on him not casting spells or using SLA's.Yeah, most of the class' abilities are always available. I thought also that his "functionally this powerful for overcoming magic damage reduction values" was also tied to his needed breaking of magic. Maybe it was a function of his own DR? I haven't read up on the class in a long time.
The Jake
02-21-07, 05:59 PM Would playing a race with a very high LA be worthwhile here? Such as a feral half-ogre or greater?
Part-Human2
02-21-07, 09:27 PM I never understood Forsaker's Damage Reduction. Magic weapons can hurt them more than non-magical weapons, unless he destroys magic items. It's not only counter-intuitive (magic weapons do more damage against them) but also enforces a dependency on magic to fuel an ability.
Endarire
02-21-07, 11:42 PM What about using psionics?

-EE
mod5000
02-22-07, 12:35 AM Also out... DM hates psionics :(
MikeN
02-22-07, 02:16 AM Would playing a race with a very high LA be worthwhile here? Such as a feral half-ogre or greater?

Remember when Savage Species came out and people said Half-Ogre was broken at +1 LA and most of the "proof" had to do with the illegal (by the rules) combo that was Feral + Half-ogre? Half-ogre = type: giant, a type to which the Feral template cannot be applied.
________

Right, that said, the Forsaker is a great flavor class that totally sucks game-mechanic-wise, and generally works in a party even worse than the Frenzied Berzerker...
mod5000
02-22-07, 02:53 AM Unfortunately, only the core races from the PHB 3.0 are allowed :-(
mod5000
02-22-07, 02:27 PM Well, guess I'll scrap the idea of Forsaker... instead I think I'll go with a mounted charger for as much crazy damage as I can fit in.

Human Midgit (often mistaken for a Halfling :-P--just take a -2 on Strength, rest is regular human stats)

1. Fighter 1 (Mounted Combat) (Improved Initiative) (Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword)
2. Fighter 2 (Mounted Archery)
3. Fighter 3 (Power Attack)
4. Fighter 4 (Cleave)
5. X 1
6. Master Samurai 1 (Ride-By Attack)
7. Master Samurai 2
8. Master Samurai 3
9. Master Samurai 4 (Weapon Focus: Lance)
10. X 2 (Spirited Charge)
11. Cavalier 1
12. Cavalier 2 (Improved Trip)
13. Cavalier 3
14. Cavalier 4
15. Cavalier 5 (Knock-Down)
16. Cavalier 6
17. Cavalier 7
18. Cavalier 8 (Weapon Spec/Improved Crit)
19. Cavalier 9
20. Cavalier 10

Everything from either PHB 3.0 or SaF. Would have taken something other than Fighter 6, but I needed the feats. (You can Supreme Cleave off a mount, making it move 5' steps in between each cleave, right?)

Basically, we can do 4x regular damage 5/day on charge attacks while mounted, +5 to all attacks while mounted, and a perfect +20 BAB. BTW, does anyone remember how partial actions work? I don't get what Full Mounted Attack means--if your mount moves as a move-equivalent action, are you able to make a full attack on the target?

EDIT: Changed the build a little... Any idea what to put for X?
khyron1144
02-22-07, 02:34 PM Human (Permanently Reduced so he can ride a Riding Dog into small areas like dungeons, etc--we'll be Power Attacking a lot, so -2 strength isn't that big a deal)

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I thought 3.0 Enlarge/Reduce changed your size but not your Size, so you're still a ten-foot-tall Medium creature or a three-foot-tall Medium creature.

Is that right?
mod5000
02-22-07, 02:42 PM :mad: Forgot about those retarded 3.0 rules... :( Any way to be Small AND get an extra bonus feat at first level? (Want to say Strongheart Halfling, need to ask the DM on that one.)

Ooh! What if my character was born a midgit? ^_^
khyron1144
02-22-07, 02:56 PM :mad: Forgot about those retarded 3.0 rules... :( Any way to be Small AND get an extra bonus feat at first level? (Want to say Strongheart Halfling, need to ask the DM on that one.)

Ooh! What if my character was born a midgit? ^_^

Both 3.0 and 3.5 did questionable things with the Enlarge spell. The 3.0 thing mentioned above and if I remember rightly removing it from the list of spells that could be made Permanent on a character in 3.5
ksbsnowowl
02-22-07, 04:23 PM BTW, does anyone remember how partial actions work?Yes. It's basically a standard action. Think of it like the Russian wooden hollow stacking dolls. A partial action is slightly bigger than a standard action, thus, because a standard action can fit 'inside' a partial action, you can use a partial action to perform a standard action. Similarly, a move-action is smaller than a standard action, and because a move action fits 'inside' a standard action, you can use a standard action (or anything that allows you to perform a standard action) to perform a move action.

I'm guessing this question was in reference to 3.0 Haste?
mod5000
02-22-07, 04:27 PM Actually, more to Full Mounted Combat that the Cavalier gets at level 6...
I'm unsure what that does for you...

I've also got 2 open levels in there that need a class with full BAB... any ideas?
Thinking either Paladin for Detect Evil, cha-to-saves, protectection from diseases, Aura of Courage, Lay on Hands, and Smite Evil, or one regular class followed by a level of Gladiator (also from SaF), or Halfling Outrider if I can be a Strongheart Halfling.
Balthanon
02-22-07, 04:37 PM You could try to fit in Kishi Charger-- the Oriental Adventures alternative to the Cavalier. It would require pushing back Spirited Charge, however, a single level would give you Expertise and a second level would give you an additional deadly charge/day.
Balthanon
02-22-07, 05:40 PM An option for that 5th level might be hospitaler-- I believe that had prerequisites of +4 BAB, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Ride 5, and Handle Animal 5 in 3.0, without the spellcasting requirement.
ksbsnowowl
02-22-07, 07:06 PM I just re-read the Sword and Fist Cavalier description. Although worded a little oddly, all the 6th level ability does is basically grant you pounce while mounted. Your mount moves and you can still make a full attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mod5000 02-20-07, 09:26 PM	I'll soon be started on a 3.0 game, and while dusting off and perusing Masters of the Wild, I came across the Forsaker PrC, which looked interesting. Is it any good? Fast Healing (but limited :( ), SR (but not enough to be very effective at high levels), Con-to-AC (used to 3.5 and Deepwarden, so not impressed much, though it might be BIG in 3.0...), and an ability score bonus every level. All in exchange for any magical items I ever had, and will ever use. Any advice playing one of these? And what's a good way to optimize it 3.0? Is it even worth it, what with forsaking all use of magic items? (Thinking Human Barb 3 / Forsaker 10 / Frenzied Berserker 7... good/bad? advice? Haven't played 3.0 in a while now, so I might be forgetting something...)
kabof 02-20-07, 09:35 PM	Books avaiable? If BoED is legal, Vow of Poverty is the option.
mod5000 02-20-07, 09:37 PM	Basically, Core+SaF/SaS/ToB/MotW. Nothing 3.25 or 3.5, and I can't think of anything else that's from that era.
Tomada 02-20-07, 10:56 PM	well... it's usually not worth it. There has been a lot of discussion about these guys. They simply hate magic. You will have a hard time with your party's magical itens, and even more with the party spellcaster. I would love it the forsaker drew energy from the destroyed itens, instead of just exploding everything magical and the party be dammed. if it wasn't for that, the forsaker would be viable, kind of. even with vow of poverty I would think twice before entering it. put something on the top shelf and sudenlly you can't reach it since you can't fly nor can someone cast it on you. Maybe it's not that bad, but I think you understand me.
ksbsnowowl 02-20-07, 11:11 PM	The most effective and character-driven way to play a Forsaker, in my opinion, is to focus your character around sundering. Sunder that magical shield, or what have you, and gain your powers.
Angelsolar 02-21-07, 10:36 AM	For a Forsaker, I'd use a Drow..given that the Forsaker SR stack with any other SR of an other Source (at 20 level you'll have 52SR:D )
Think0028 02-21-07, 10:54 AM	One problem with Forsaker + VoP that I remember from a sig somewhere: Remember, you can't break magic items for forsaker since you need to donate it all for VoP. Magic is evil! So give it to the orphans!
ksbsnowowl 02-21-07, 12:26 PM	One problem with Forsaker + VoP that I remember from a sig somewhere:Remember, you can't break magic items for forsaker since you need to donate it all for VoP. Magic is evil! So give it to the orphans!That's why you build your character around sundering. You don't have to donate it if it's not yours. You just break it because you hate it (and it gives you powers).
Xaktsaroth 02-21-07, 02:00 PM	According to my copy of Masters of the Wild, the only benefit a Forsaker gets for breaking a magic item is his DR. All his other class abilities are just dependent on him not casting spells or using SLA's.
Kurama Youko 02-21-07, 02:35 PM	...
ksbsnowowl 02-21-07, 04:03 PM	According to my copy of Masters of the Wild, the only benefit a Forsaker gets for breaking a magic item is his DR. All his other class abilities are just dependent on him not casting spells or using SLA's.Yeah, most of the class' abilities are always available. I thought also that his "functionally this powerful for overcoming magic damage reduction values" was also tied to his needed breaking of magic. Maybe it was a function of his own DR? I haven't read up on the class in a long time.
The Jake 02-21-07, 05:59 PM	Would playing a race with a very high LA be worthwhile here? Such as a feral half-ogre or greater?
Part-Human2 02-21-07, 09:27 PM	I never understood Forsaker's Damage Reduction. Magic weapons can hurt them more than non-magical weapons, unless he destroys magic items. It's not only counter-intuitive (magic weapons do more damage against them) but also enforces a dependency on magic to fuel an ability.
Endarire 02-21-07, 11:42 PM	What about using psionics? -EE
mod5000 02-22-07, 12:35 AM	Also out... DM hates psionics :(
MikeN 02-22-07, 02:16 AM	Would playing a race with a very high LA be worthwhile here? Such as a feral half-ogre or greater? Remember when Savage Species came out and people said Half-Ogre was broken at +1 LA and most of the "proof" had to do with the illegal (by the rules) combo that was Feral + Half-ogre? Half-ogre = type: giant, a type to which the Feral template cannot be applied. ________ Right, that said, the Forsaker is a great flavor class that totally sucks game-mechanic-wise, and generally works in a party even worse than the Frenzied Berzerker...
mod5000 02-22-07, 02:53 AM	Unfortunately, only the core races from the PHB 3.0 are allowed :-(
mod5000 02-22-07, 02:27 PM	Well, guess I'll scrap the idea of Forsaker... instead I think I'll go with a mounted charger for as much crazy damage as I can fit in. Human Midgit (often mistaken for a Halfling :-P--just take a -2 on Strength, rest is regular human stats) 1. Fighter 1 (Mounted Combat) (Improved Initiative) (Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword) 2. Fighter 2 (Mounted Archery) 3. Fighter 3 (Power Attack) 4. Fighter 4 (Cleave) 5. X 1 6. Master Samurai 1 (Ride-By Attack) 7. Master Samurai 2 8. Master Samurai 3 9. Master Samurai 4 (Weapon Focus: Lance) 10. X 2 (Spirited Charge) 11. Cavalier 1 12. Cavalier 2 (Improved Trip) 13. Cavalier 3 14. Cavalier 4 15. Cavalier 5 (Knock-Down) 16. Cavalier 6 17. Cavalier 7 18. Cavalier 8 (Weapon Spec/Improved Crit) 19. Cavalier 9 20. Cavalier 10 Everything from either PHB 3.0 or SaF. Would have taken something other than Fighter 6, but I needed the feats. (You can Supreme Cleave off a mount, making it move 5' steps in between each cleave, right?) Basically, we can do 4x regular damage 5/day on charge attacks while mounted, +5 to all attacks while mounted, and a perfect +20 BAB. BTW, does anyone remember how partial actions work? I don't get what Full Mounted Attack means--if your mount moves as a move-equivalent action, are you able to make a full attack on the target? EDIT: Changed the build a little... Any idea what to put for X?
khyron1144 02-22-07, 02:34 PM	Human (Permanently Reduced so he can ride a Riding Dog into small areas like dungeons, etc--we'll be Power Attacking a lot, so -2 strength isn't that big a deal) Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I thought 3.0 Enlarge/Reduce changed your size but not your Size, so you're still a ten-foot-tall Medium creature or a three-foot-tall Medium creature. Is that right?
mod5000 02-22-07, 02:42 PM	:mad: Forgot about those retarded 3.0 rules... :( Any way to be Small AND get an extra bonus feat at first level? (Want to say Strongheart Halfling, need to ask the DM on that one.) Ooh! What if my character was born a midgit? ^_^
khyron1144 02-22-07, 02:56 PM	:mad: Forgot about those retarded 3.0 rules... :( Any way to be Small AND get an extra bonus feat at first level? (Want to say Strongheart Halfling, need to ask the DM on that one.) Ooh! What if my character was born a midgit? ^_^ Both 3.0 and 3.5 did questionable things with the Enlarge spell. The 3.0 thing mentioned above and if I remember rightly removing it from the list of spells that could be made Permanent on a character in 3.5
ksbsnowowl 02-22-07, 04:23 PM	BTW, does anyone remember how partial actions work?Yes. It's basically a standard action. Think of it like the Russian wooden hollow stacking dolls. A partial action is slightly bigger than a standard action, thus, because a standard action can fit 'inside' a partial action, you can use a partial action to perform a standard action. Similarly, a move-action is smaller than a standard action, and because a move action fits 'inside' a standard action, you can use a standard action (or anything that allows you to perform a standard action) to perform a move action. I'm guessing this question was in reference to 3.0 Haste?
mod5000 02-22-07, 04:27 PM	Actually, more to Full Mounted Combat that the Cavalier gets at level 6... I'm unsure what that does for you... I've also got 2 open levels in there that need a class with full BAB... any ideas? Thinking either Paladin for Detect Evil, cha-to-saves, protectection from diseases, Aura of Courage, Lay on Hands, and Smite Evil, or one regular class followed by a level of Gladiator (also from SaF), or Halfling Outrider if I can be a Strongheart Halfling.
Balthanon 02-22-07, 04:37 PM	You could try to fit in Kishi Charger-- the Oriental Adventures alternative to the Cavalier. It would require pushing back Spirited Charge, however, a single level would give you Expertise and a second level would give you an additional deadly charge/day.
Balthanon 02-22-07, 05:40 PM	An option for that 5th level might be hospitaler-- I believe that had prerequisites of +4 BAB, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Ride 5, and Handle Animal 5 in 3.0, without the spellcasting requirement.
ksbsnowowl 02-22-07, 07:06 PM	I just re-read the Sword and Fist Cavalier description. Although worded a little oddly, all the 6th level ability does is basically grant you pounce while mounted. Your mount moves and you can still make a full attack.