Post/Author/DateTime	Post
barrel_master 11-08-03, 12:49 PM	Is this nearly as usefull as it used to be? Okay, it's easy enough to find a good creature under 5HD but the 'type' requirement basicly retricts you to elves, dwarfs and Kobalts... am I missing something here?
Vorpal Warhammer 11-08-03, 01:01 PM	Take advantage of the 500 different species of elves that WotC pumps out every year. That'll let you grow gills or wings if you need them. I'm waiting for "stone elves" to come out that have a +10 natural armor bonus and +1 level adjustment :rolleyes:
Hadel Ionque 11-08-03, 01:22 PM	Get races of faerun. If you wanna fly, became an avarial, to swim an aquatic elf, for natural armor lizardfolk is good (+5 to natural armor). It is still as useful as before, the problem is you need to be familar with those creatures. As a DM, I don't accept people to simply claim that they are familiar by sticking it into their background, they have to do it during the adventure. I don't let any backgrounds that allow people to have an advantage over others.
Ranthanas 11-08-03, 01:28 PM	Lizardmen, Troglodytes and Avrael (winged Elves) are the standard choices (oh, and aquatic elves) for buffs. Otherwise, there's the disguise use...
Deuteros 11-08-03, 01:49 PM	Bugbears aren't a bad choice, they have good Natural Armor. Troglodyte's is better but it's always good to have other options.
Hadel Ionque 11-08-03, 03:25 PM	Bah bugbears aren't that great... Unless you don't know troglodytes and lizardfolk... Anyway, I always thought that a level 2 spell that could let you fly/swim was kinda over the top... Now, it is even more overpowered, since you can get up to +6 natural armor, something not even barkskin gives you *sighs*
Otto the Bugbear 11-08-03, 03:44 PM	Originally posted by Hadel Ionque Bah bugbears aren't that great... GRRRRRRR!!!! Cheers Otto :88E: :fight!: :behold: :hoppingma
Hadel Ionque 11-08-03, 03:50 PM	Bugbears are ugly and smell bad :mad:
Otto the Bugbear 11-08-03, 04:52 PM	Originally posted by Hadel Ionque Bugbears are ugly and smell bad :mad: Hrm, well, with that compliment, I guess I'll leave you and your family alone. But beware, I'll be watching you! Cheers Otto :) BTW, that threat was a complete joke, for those poeple that can't recognize a joke. ;)
MikeN 11-08-03, 06:30 PM	Well, that +6 natural armor comes with a -1 dex modifier since you become an "average" troglodyte... Lizardfolk is a better choice I'd say...better overall physical stats without the dex penalty but only with +5 natural armor (same total AC, slightly better vs. touch/etherial/etc) __________ Of course, what I'd like is a 1st level spell called "elvenform" that lets a person change form into only elf subspecies...:D
Redeemer of Ogar 11-08-03, 06:49 PM	Unlike Polymorph and Wildshape, you keep your own ability scores when using Alter Self. +--Redeemer of Ogar--
Jindl 11-08-03, 06:53 PM	Alter self is MUCH better in the hands of a tiefling or aasimar. The ability to use Outsiders for your selection of alterations is great. Mephits can give you good flight, natural attacks and natural armor. A water mephit can breathe water. There's a new beastie in the BoED that is a 4 HD outsider with +10 natural armor. In short, it makes up for the +1 LA of the planetouched races. But for humanoids, its not that great (although there is a humanoid beastie in MH that has +8 natural armor...) -Jindl
Zeffan the Fighting Man 12-02-03, 02:22 AM	:bump: zeff
MegaPlex 01-29-04, 02:48 AM	Humanoid Types for Alter Self RACE Benefit Bugbear +3 Natural Armor, +4 Move Silently Dwarf +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework) Duergar +4 Move Silently, +1 Listen and Spot Elf +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot Half-Elf +1 Listen, +1 Search, +1 Spot, +2 Diplomacy Aquatic Elf Swim 40', +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot Drow Elf +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot (Looks cool) Githyanki None Githzerai None Gnoll +1 Natural Armor Gnome +2 Listen, +2 Craft (Alchemy) Goblin +4 Move Silently, +4 Ride Halfling +2 Climb, +2 Jump, +2 Move Silently, +2 Listen Hobgoblin +4 Move Silently Kobold +1 Natural Armor, +2 Craft (Trapmaking), +2 Search Locathah Swim 60', +8 Swim (take 10) Merfolk Swim 50', +8 Swim (take 10) Orc None Lizardfolk +5 Natural Armor, +4 Balance, +4 Jump, +4 Swim, Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each) Troglodyte +6 Natural Armor, +4 Hide (+8 underground), Multiattack, Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each)
Kaladin 01-29-04, 03:57 AM	So if I'm a halfling, with STR 12, Dex 18, Con 14, what would I get/lose for changing into a lizardman? I'm pretty sure I know how it works but an example always clears things up.
Sisyfos 01-29-04, 06:33 AM	Originally posted by MegaPlex Humanoid Types for Alter Self RACE Benefit Thanks for the list. Sisyfos
Snow Savant 01-29-04, 09:02 AM	Nice list! Although it is missing 2 key races when it comes to maxing out your Natural AC. And Natural Armor is one of the biggest selling points for many people when it comes to Alter Self. Phaerlock (Underdark) = +7 Nat. Armor Crucian (MH) = +8 Nat. Armor ** Wow. +8 is nothing to sneeze at - with the right armor accompaniments, you are well nigh unhittable. Although your movement is now 20'.
MegaPlex 01-29-04, 04:10 PM	Originally posted by Jindl But for humanoids, its not that great (although there is a humanoid beastie in BoED that has +8 natural armor...) What is the name and page in Book of Exalted Deeds?
BattleAngelZero 01-29-04, 05:01 PM	As a DM, I don't accept people to simply claim that they are familiar by sticking it into their background, they have to do it during the adventure. I don't let any backgrounds that allow people to have an advantage over others. Wow, so much for making up a richly detailed character history in one of your games. Awesome frame of mind. But seriously - consider being more open from time to time. I'm not saying you let everybody powergame - I'm saying that, if someone really wants to write up a 20 page backstory detailing their character through and through (you'll probably want to work on this with them), then allow them to use that to their advantage. Conversely, if you have players who barely roleplay, or the ever-present "I only ever play PHB Fighters"-Guy, then don't give them any benefits and reduce their XP gain for not participating as much as the others.
ErikPSO 01-29-04, 05:41 PM	You forgot the feats on the chart, i'm working on it as we speak. Also adding size to the charts, as this also changes.
Sisyfos 01-29-04, 05:47 PM	Originally posted by BattleAngelZero Wow, so much for making up a richly detailed character history in one of your games. Awesome frame of mind. Well, it allows the educated DM to control whether abusive forms are available for players to alter self/polymorph into. I think that many DMs used similar control mechanisms with 3.0 shifters... Sisyfos
ErikPSO 01-29-04, 06:30 PM	Bugbear +3 Natural Armor, +4 Move Silently, Alertness, Weapon Focus (morningstar) Dwarf Move 20’ (no encumbrance), +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework) Duergar Move 20’ (no encumbrance), +4 Move Silently, +1 Listen and Spot Elf +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot, Half-Elf +1 Listen, +1 Search, +1 Spot, +2 Diplomacy, +2 Gather Information Aquatic Elf Swim 40', +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot Drow Elf +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot (Looks cool) Githyanki None Githzerai None Gnoll +1 Natural Armor, Power Attack Gnome Small, +2 Listen, +2 Craft (Alchemy) Svirfneblin Small, +2 Search (Stonework), +2 Craft (alchemy), +2 Listen, +2 Hide (+4 underground) Goblin Small, Move 30’, +4 Move Silently, +4 Ride Halfling Small, +2 Climb, +2 Jump, +2 Move Silently, +2 Listen Tallfellow Halfling Small, +2 Search, +2 Spot, +2 Listen Deep Halfling Small, +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework), +2 Listen Hobgoblin +4 Move Silently, Alertness Kobold Small, Move 30’, +1 Natural Armor, +2 Craft (Trapmaking), +2 Search Locathah Move 10’, Swim 60', +8 Swim (take 10), Weapon Focus (longspear) Merfolk Move 5’, Swim 50', +8 Swim (take 10) Orc None Lizardfolk +5 Natural Armor, +4 Balance, +4 Jump, +4 Swim, Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each), Multiattack Troglodyte +6 Natural Armor, +4 Hide (+8 underground), Multiattack, Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each), Multiattack Phaerlock (Underdark) = +7 Natural Armor, +4 balance, +4 Jump, +4 Swim, Claws and Bite attacks (1d4 each), Multiattack Crucian (MH) = Move 20’, +8 Natural Armor, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (Warhammer) Catfolk (MH) = Move 40’, +1 Natural Armor, +2 Listen, +2 Move Silently Dark Creeper (FF) = Small, Move 30’, +1 Natural Armor, Lightning Reflexes Dark Stalker (FF) = +2 Natural Armor, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes Mongrelfolk (FF) = Endurance, +8 Hide, +8 Sleight of Hand Asabi (MoF) = Move 50’, Burrow 20’, Bite attack(1d4), Combat Reflexes, Jump Lengths Increased Bullywug (MoF) = Move 20’, Swim 30’, +3 Natural Armor, Endurance, +6 Hide (Marshes) Gibberling (MoF) = Small, Move 30’, Bite (1d3), +1 Natural Armor, Weapon Focus (Bite) Shalarin (MoF) = Move none, Swim 40’, Weapon Focus (Trident) Siv (MoF) = Move 40’, Swim 20’, +2 Natural Armor, EWP (Net), EWP (Siangham) Arctic Dwarf (RoF) = Small, Move 20’ (no encumbrance), +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework) Urdunnir Dwarf (Rof) = Move 20’ (no encumbrance), +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework) Wild Dwarf (RoF) = Small, Move 20’ (no encumbrance), +2 to Craft (Stone or Metal), +2 to Search (Stonework) Avarial (RoF) = +4 Spot, +4 Jump, Fly 50’, +2 Listen, +2 Search Forest Gnome = Small, +2 Listen, +2 Craft (Alchemy), +4 Hide (+8 Forests) Grey Orc (RoF) = Move 40’ Orog (Deep Orc) = +2 Craft (Armorsmithing and Weaponsmithing), +2 Natural Armor Mountain Spirit Folk (UE) = Climb 30’, +2 Balance, +2 Jump, +2 Tumble, +8 Climb (Take 10) River Spirit Folk (UE) = Swim 30’, +8 Swim (Take 10) If you see anything wrong in this, or find a race not posted here, please tell. Also, if this goes against copyrights, I apoligize and will remove the material.
MegaPlex 01-29-04, 06:37 PM	Originally posted by ErikPSO Bugbear +3 Natural Armor, +4 Move Silently, Alertness, Weapon Focus (morningstar) You do not get the Weapon Focus (morningstar) feat when you Alter Self into a Bugbear. That feat is not a 'Racial' feat, it's a feat granted because the bugbear has two HD of Humanoid and thus gains a bonus feat. Lizardfolk +5 Natural Armor, +4 Balance, +4 Jump, +4 Swim, Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each), Multiattack This is one of the few exceptions, as the Multiattack is a Racial feat, thus you do get it when you Alter Self to a Lizardfolk.
ErikPSO 01-29-04, 07:17 PM	What is the difference here? I do not see it. Both recieve the feats for thier Humanoid HD. What makes multiattack and weapon focus morningstar different?
Hanniball 01-29-04, 08:07 PM	in the case of the lizardfolk they get the feat for free whereas the bugbear "chose" weapon focus morningstar as it's feat...
Jindl 01-29-04, 08:59 PM	Originally posted by MegaPlex What is the name and page in Book of Exalted Deeds? My apologies, MegaPlex. I also was referring to the Crucian (turtle guy) in the Miniatures Handbook. -jindl
necrosnoop110 01-29-04, 09:09 PM	Great list MegaPlex, anyone got a similar list for Outsiders :D
Ixmof 08-11-06, 11:09 PM	So if I'm a halfling, with STR 12, Dex 18, Con 14, what would I get/lose for changing into a lizardman? I'm pretty sure I know how it works but an example always clears things up. Assuming you mean lizardfolk, you would get +5 Natural Armor, +4 Balance, +4 Jump, +4 Swim, and Claw and Bite attacks (1d4 each). Your ability scores don't change. Edit: You also get Multiattack. Alter Self (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm)
Caelic 08-11-06, 11:12 PM	Err...wow. Holy thread necromancy, Batman!
Ixmof 08-11-06, 11:18 PM	Oops, I got to this thread from a link and did not realize how old it was, sorry.
runestar 08-12-06, 12:31 AM	Alter self into a lizardfolk does not grant you multiattack, since lizardfolk still have to choose the feat and could easily swap it out for another feat if they so desire. The clause about getting "racial bonus feats" apply only to feats with the (b) descriptor after it, meaning that they get the feat for free. Multiattack for a lizardfolk has no such indicator, and so you will not get said feat for free when you alter self into a lizardfolk. ;) A dragonwrought kobold could alter self into a wyrmling black dragon, granting flight and a nice NA boost... :)