Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JohnGalt 08-09-05, 02:00 AM	Does anyone have any good 3.5 archer builds. I saw a few 3.0 archer builds, but not many 3.5 builds. The ones I saw didn't really appeal to me or had classes that my DM did not allow(sorry snowowl). I can use the 3.0 Deepwood Sniper, as there has not been an update. I have access to pretty much everything but Dragon magazine and the Campaign Setting splat books. I was thinking something along the lines of rgr 5/fgt 2/horizon walker 6/deepwood sniper 7, though not necesarrily in that order. The plan would be to dimension door around while wearing a ring of invisibility, effectively becoming impossible for reg. creatures to hit. Any opinions on that build, or a feat progression suggestion? I don't really like Order of the Bow Initiate in 3.5 because it isn't synergetic with deepwood sniper or manyshot feat. However I could be wrong. Any help is appreciated. On a completely unrelated note, how does something that says "usuable once every 1d4 rounds" work? When you start combat do you roll, and everytime you use it do you roll. Do you roll once per combat. Help on that is appreciated as well.
TrackStar 08-09-05, 02:22 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183604 Enjoy.
Raven42 08-09-05, 02:34 AM	I was thinking something along the lines of rgr 5/fgt 2/horizon walker 6/deepwood sniper 7, though not necesarrily in that order. The plan would be to dimension door around while wearing a ring of invisibility, effectively becoming impossible for reg. creatures to hit. Any opinions on that build, or a feat progression suggestion? I don't really like Order of the Bow Initiate in 3.5 because it isn't synergetic with deepwood sniper or manyshot feat. However I could be wrong. Any help is appreciated. On a completely unrelated note, how does something that says "usuable once every 1d4 rounds" work? When you start combat do you roll, and everytime you use it do you roll. Do you roll once per combat. Help on that is appreciated as well. For your build, try some levels of scout. It has some really nice class features that almost make you want to take it for all 20 levels. May not have the best BAB, but oh well. And where would you be getting dimension door from? As for the "usable once every 1d4 rounds", as far as I know, each time you use it you roll 1d4 and after that many rounds, you can use it again. But I could be wrong about that.
Feldspar 08-09-05, 04:08 AM	I don't really like Order of the Bow Initiate in 3.5 because it isn't synergetic with deepwood sniper or manyshot feat. Seems like it would synergise with the Scouts skirmish damage though. Scout 10 / OotBI 10 seems like it could be a simple, yet fun, build.
JohnGalt 08-09-05, 03:21 PM	Wow, good idea. Skirmish damage is really synergetic with many shot.
ninjarabbit 08-09-05, 03:28 PM	I like a simple rogue16/ranger2/fighter2. With the able learner feat you can keep all your vital skills maxed out so you can be the trap monkey and tracker in addition to being a good archerer.
Kelldroth Smite 08-09-05, 03:53 PM	Skirmish and manyshot are not as synergetic as one would think. Manyshot counts as a volley, and Skirmish counts as precision damge, therefore, Skirmish damage is applied only once sadly. As for a proper build, I'd go with fighter2 Ranger 3 Deepwood sniper2 followed by Peerless Archer (Silver Marches) max out the peerless archer.... after that... well umm no idea.
NullAndVoid 08-09-05, 04:23 PM	I think they are actually referring to the Greater Manyshot feat (From XPH?). Greater Manyshot [General] You are skilled at firing many arrows at once, even at different opponents. Prerequisites Dex 17, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6. Benefit When you use the Manyshot feat, you can fire each arrow at a different target instead of firing all of them at the same target. You make a separate attack roll for each arrow, regardless of whether you fire them at separate targets or the same target. Your precision-based damage applies to each arrow fired, and, if you score a critical hit with more than one of the arrows, each critical hit deals critical damage. Special A fighter may select this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Drakos 08-09-05, 04:29 PM	Skirmish and manyshot are not as synergetic as one would think. Manyshot counts as a volley, and Skirmish counts as precision damge, therefore, Skirmish damage is applied only once sadly. As for a proper build, I'd go with fighter2 Ranger 3 Deepwood sniper2 followed by Peerless Archer (Silver Marches) max out the peerless archer.... after that... well umm no idea. But the Greater Manyshot feat from the XPH allows the percision damage with each arrow, you need to make seperate attack rolls however. Also the arrows may be fired at seperate targets. It basically un-vollys the manyshot.
Feldspar 08-09-05, 10:42 PM	Wow, good idea. Skirmish damage is really synergetic with many shot. Actually, it was the OotBI Precision damage that I was thinking would be synergistic with the scouts skirmish ability. No need to even get or use many shot. Save yourself some arrows and just take the one shot per round with Skirmish and Precision damage.
JohnGalt 08-09-05, 11:13 PM	Actually, it was the OotBI Precision damage that I was thinking would be synergistic with the scouts skirmish ability. No need to even get or use many shot. Save yourself some arrows and just take the one shot per round with Skirmish and Precision damage. Hmm. With Greater Manyshot you can apply the skirmish damage to each arrow you fire. So firing four arrows would net you 4d8 + 4d6 + 4(enchantment on bow). With the ootbi you only get 1d8 + 5d8(i think) + 1(enchantment on bow). There is a huge difference in damage. however, without greater manyshot, i would agree with you.
Encard 08-10-05, 01:13 AM	Hmm. With Greater Manyshot you can apply the skirmish damage to each arrow you fire. So firing four arrows would net you 4d8 + 4d6 + 4(enchantment on bow). With the ootbi you only get 1d8 + 5d8(i think) + 1(enchantment on bow). There is a huge difference in damage. however, without greater manyshot, i would agree with you. Comparison of (Greater Manyshot-using) Scout 20 vs. Scout 10/OotBI 10, assuming all arrows hit: Scout 20 3d8 (3 arrows) + 15d6 (skirmish) + 3 (enhancement) = 69 average damage. Note that the Scout's BAB only lets him shoot 3 arrows, not 4. Scout 10/OotBI 10 1d8 (1 arrow) + 3d6 (skirmish) + 5d8 (OotBI) + 1 (enhancement) = 38.5 average damage. Scout 20 is BAB +15, Scout 10/OotBI 10 is BAB +17. The former takes a -6 penalty for Greater Manyshot with 3 arrows, the latter gets a +1 from the Greater Weapon Focus class ability and only needs to hit with his highest attack bonus, meaning that the actual amount of damage dealt isn't quite as different as it seems here. With some Radiant Holding ammo, however, the Scout definitely pulls far ahead.
Areuth 08-10-05, 01:24 AM	OotBI is complete crap, it says specifically you can use a STANDARD ACTION to make it, so, one attack a rd... Try to break that in 3.5 Archery
JohnGalt 08-10-05, 02:50 AM	Hmm. Well there is no way I would take more than 6 levels of scout, which only loses me 2 BAB. However, I want those 4 shots, and -8 is a hefty penalty. Does anyone know a way to offset the huge -8 penalty for a 4 arrow manyshot? Right now I only would have level 5/6 of scout in my build. Any other PRcs are in to try and boost my Attack Rolls so I can actually hit with all of my precision damage.
Feldspar 08-10-05, 04:53 AM	assuming all arrows hit That seems like a big assumption to make. only needs to hit with his highest attack bonus, meaning that the actual amount of damage dealt isn't quite as different as it seems here That what I was thinking - so I figured I'd run these numbers to see how things shake out. h/r = hits/round; c/r = crits/round; d/r=damage/round For the many shot case, the first thing shown is the number of arrows shot. You'll note that when optimizing for damage, using Manyshot to launch as many arrows as possible is NOT always the correct thing to do. Scout 20 with Greater Manyshot Longbow ab=15 1d8+1 + 5d6 20x3 1 ac=30 h/r=0.30 c/r=0.0150 d/r= 7.07 1 ac=29 h/r=0.35 c/r=0.0175 d/r= 8.24 1 ac=28 h/r=0.40 c/r=0.0200 d/r= 9.42 2 ac=27 h/r=0.50 c/r=0.0250 d/r=11.78 2 ac=26 h/r=0.60 c/r=0.0300 d/r=14.13 2 ac=25 h/r=0.70 c/r=0.0350 d/r=16.48 2 ac=24 h/r=0.80 c/r=0.0400 d/r=18.84 2 ac=23 h/r=0.90 c/r=0.0450 d/r=21.20 2 ac=22 h/r=1.00 c/r=0.0500 d/r=23.55 2 ac=21 h/r=1.10 c/r=0.0550 d/r=25.91 3 ac=20 h/r=1.25 c/r=0.0625 d/r=29.44 3 ac=19 h/r=1.40 c/r=0.0700 d/r=32.97 3 ac=18 h/r=1.55 c/r=0.0775 d/r=36.50 3 ac=17 h/r=1.70 c/r=0.0850 d/r=40.03 3 ac=16 h/r=1.85 c/r=0.0925 d/r=43.57 3 ac=15 h/r=2.00 c/r=0.1000 d/r=47.10 Scout 10 / OotBI 10 Longbow ab=18 1d8+1 + 3d6 + 5d8 20x3 ac=30 h/r=0.45 c/r=0.0225 d/r=17.57 ac=29 h/r=0.50 c/r=0.0250 d/r=19.52 ac=28 h/r=0.55 c/r=0.0275 d/r=21.48 ac=27 h/r=0.60 c/r=0.0300 d/r=23.43 ac=26 h/r=0.65 c/r=0.0325 d/r=25.38 ac=25 h/r=0.70 c/r=0.0350 d/r=27.34 ac=24 h/r=0.75 c/r=0.0375 d/r=29.29 ac=23 h/r=0.80 c/r=0.0400 d/r=31.24 ac=22 h/r=0.85 c/r=0.0425 d/r=33.19 ac=21 h/r=0.90 c/r=0.0450 d/r=35.15 ac=20 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=37.10 ac=19 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=37.10 ac=18 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=37.10 Hmmm, the scootbi is looking pretty good, isn't he? Of course, the AC's used there aren't exactly reflective of reality. With Dex bonus to hit and the like, the range where manyshot kicks butt is going to get pushed up into the 20's. I'm sure there are a lots of tricksy ways to boost up the Manyshotter through spells, weapon abilities and the like as well. Even not so tricky things like elemental damage and str bonus from a composite bow will favor a multi arrow approach. So lets try those numbers again with (I don't even know what's appropriate for 20th level character) a Dex of bonus +8, a Str bonus to damage of +4, weapon focus for each, and, um, +1 flaming-shocking bow. Scout 10 / OotBI 10 apr=1 bab=15 str=4 dex=8 Longbow ab=25 1d8+5 + 7d6 20x3 dexhit 1 ac=40 h/r=0.30 c/r=0.0150 d/r=10.48 1 ac=39 h/r=0.35 c/r=0.0175 d/r=12.23 1 ac=38 h/r=0.40 c/r=0.0200 d/r=13.98 2 ac=37 h/r=0.50 c/r=0.0250 d/r=17.48 2 ac=36 h/r=0.60 c/r=0.0300 d/r=20.97 2 ac=35 h/r=0.70 c/r=0.0350 d/r=24.47 2 ac=34 h/r=0.80 c/r=0.0400 d/r=27.96 2 ac=33 h/r=0.90 c/r=0.0450 d/r=31.45 2 ac=32 h/r=1.00 c/r=0.0500 d/r=34.95 2 ac=31 h/r=1.10 c/r=0.0550 d/r=38.45 3 ac=30 h/r=1.25 c/r=0.0625 d/r=43.69 3 ac=29 h/r=1.40 c/r=0.0700 d/r=48.93 3 ac=28 h/r=1.55 c/r=0.0775 d/r=54.17 3 ac=27 h/r=1.70 c/r=0.0850 d/r=59.41 3 ac=26 h/r=1.85 c/r=0.0925 d/r=64.66 3 ac=25 h/r=2.00 c/r=0.1000 d/r=69.90 3 ac=24 h/r=2.15 c/r=0.1075 d/r=75.14 3 ac=23 h/r=2.30 c/r=0.1150 d/r=80.39 3 ac=22 h/r=2.45 c/r=0.1225 d/r=85.63 3 ac=21 h/r=2.60 c/r=0.1300 d/r=90.87 3 ac=20 h/r=2.65 c/r=0.1325 d/r=92.62Scout 10 / OotBI 10 apr=1 bab=17 str=4 dex=8 Longbow ab=28 1d8+5 + 5d6 + 5d8 20x3 dexhit ac=40 h/r=0.45 c/r=0.0225 d/r=22.70 ac=39 h/r=0.50 c/r=0.0250 d/r=25.23 ac=38 h/r=0.55 c/r=0.0275 d/r=27.75 ac=37 h/r=0.60 c/r=0.0300 d/r=30.27 ac=36 h/r=0.65 c/r=0.0325 d/r=32.79 ac=35 h/r=0.70 c/r=0.0350 d/r=35.31 ac=34 h/r=0.75 c/r=0.0375 d/r=37.84 ac=33 h/r=0.80 c/r=0.0400 d/r=40.36 ac=32 h/r=0.85 c/r=0.0425 d/r=42.88 ac=31 h/r=0.90 c/r=0.0450 d/r=45.41 ac=30 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=47.93 ac=29 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=47.93 ac=28 h/r=0.95 c/r=0.0475 d/r=47.93 Hmmm, the Manyshot guy can really pump out the damage against the minions, but the the scootbi still seems to have the upper hand when taking on an elite opponent like a Balor or a Very Old Red Dragon. Not sure how useful the test cases I ran were, but hopefully you'll get some value from the results.
JohnGalt 08-10-05, 12:17 PM	Hmm, so the manyshot is really good against people with low AC, and the OotBI is really good against high ac/dr guys. Also, the 10th level OotBI extended precision would apply to Skirmish damage as well, right? 10 levels of that may be nice so I can skirmish/precise damage from 60ft, can use manyshot and precision, and have decent saves. Hmm. Maybe something like this. Race: Wood Elf(probably) 1. Ranger Point Blank Shot 2. Ranger Rapid Shot 3. Scout Precise Shot 4. Scout 5. Fighter Weapon Focus(Longbow) 6. OotBI Manyshot 7. OotBI 8. OotBI 9. OotBI Greater Manyshot 10. OotBI 11. OotBI 12. OotBI Free 13. OotBI 14. OotBI 15. OotBI Free 16. Scout 17 Scout Free 18. Scout Free 19. Scout 20. Fighter Free Any suggestions on what I should put in for the Free slots. This build allows me to Manyshot against weaker enemies, and precision damage against stronger ones, all from 60ft(i hope, does extended precision apply to skirmish).
Sang-Drax 08-10-05, 12:29 PM	I must remind you that you don't have to take Scout 20. Take Highland Stalker PrC, which has skirmish and full BAB. The Justice of Weald and Woe PrC from Champions of Ruin has some nice stuff, too. Nothing's better than a Scout archer, though.
Nicholas the Paladin 10-21-05, 03:30 AM	I must remind you that you don't have to take Scout 20. Take Highland Stalker PrC, which has skirmish and full BAB. From which book?
vradna 05-13-06, 11:01 PM	From which book? Complete Adventurer pg:54.
TheOne 05-13-06, 11:35 PM	As far as calculations for manyshot vs. OotBI check out the uber bow enhancement from Champ of Ruin, splitting, every arrow you shoot splits into two, so that scout20 now makes six attack rolls with a manyshot. Justice of Weald and Woe is a great archer PrC but I'm not quite sure how it compares to scout or HS. Dragon Devotee adds up two 2d6 damage to skirmish plus some other goodies over five levels. I am also currently toying with an archer scout build using feats from PHBII. I was thinking something like Scout5/Ranger2/DD3/HS9
Pinky's brain 05-13-06, 11:51 PM	Comparison of (Greater Manyshot-using) Scout 20 vs. Scout 10/OotBI 10, assuming all arrows hit: Scout 20 3d8 (3 arrows) + 15d6 (skirmish) + 3 (enhancement) = 69 average damage. Note that the Scout's BAB only lets him shoot 3 arrows, not 4. Scout 10/OotBI 10 1d8 (1 arrow) + 3d6 (skirmish) + 5d8 (OotBI) + 1 (enhancement) = 38.5 average damage.At level 20 you will have +5 enhancement bonus, and the bows will be composite ... Personally Id prefer fighter 12/consecrated harrier 8 though ... even without spells he is going to give the above builds a run for their money. With spells and some lesser metamagic rods of quickening he will always be hitting because of find the gap though and from the second round onward he will be benefitting from hunter's mercy. He does more damage and is more flexible ... magic for the win.
AZNsupermarket 05-14-06, 01:37 AM	Edit: what I said has already been said
Bolorhaig 05-14-06, 02:51 AM	i just posted a similar question the other day (high movement archer build). i got some very helpful responses. seems like a couple respondents mentioned that you could manyshot w/the OotBI precision damage. i don't think you can. both require a standard action, so you can't combine them. if they required you to use a standard attack that would be ok, but they both read standard action so they are prohibitive to each other. some interesting classes i've tried for this char (in addition to scout): barbarian variant from unearthed arcana (lose rage, gain fav enemy and archery combat style)-this will boost BAB for scout, increase his move (always nice), and if you take 2 lvls of Vbarb and at least 2 lvls of scout you get improved uncanny dodge (barb uncanny dodge upgrades if you already have it). can't complain about that d12 HP either. deepwood sniper-good BAB, and even if you only dip a couple lvls you get nice critical bonuses for your arrows shadow scout (OE)-good BAB and another movement boost. legendary bowman-this is from a mongoose publication (does that count as a splatbook?). you get another movement boost, and if you take enough lvls of it you get an area line effect w/your arrows for crowd control. i'd like to hear what you end up with. bolorhaig
Ithandor 05-14-06, 04:17 AM	A slightly alternative route, but one which I think is quite nice, is Stalker of Kharash from BoED. Specifically: -Full BAB -Progresses Ranger spells (which allow access to some very useful spells indeed; Hunter's Mercy, Arrowmind, etc) -Favoured Enemy (evil): This is the main benefit. Once you have this, you can use additional Ranger levels, and the feats Improved Favoured Enemy and Nemesis, etc, to increase its damage. Throw in the Hunting enhancement on your bow, which doubles Favoured Enemy damage, and you'll be doing significant damage against evil foes. -Hide in Plain Sight: Enough said really, gets it at level 4. :D A nice way into SoK is Ranger(4)/Fighter(2) (you'll need the feats). After that, I'd recommend taking the first 2 levels of SoK, then Ranger 5 and 6, then back into SoK. After that, it's pretty open. No Campaign specific splatbooks means no Peerless Archer, but you could head into Deepwood Sniper, or stick with Ranger, or (if you're feeling really abusive) you could check out Foehunter from MotW ;) Alternatively, if you have feats to spare (which I'd doubt, this build is quite feat intensive), you could use a Greatbow and take one level of Exotic Weapon Master for Close Combat Shot. Just my .02c, hope it helps! Ithandor
Venator 05-14-06, 07:10 AM	Ive got a pretty straight forward Archer build that Im working towards in my current game. Wood Elf Fighter 19 / Ranger 1 1 - Fighter - Point Blank, Precise 2 - Figher - Weapon Focus (Longbow) 3 - Fighter - Rapid Shot 4 - Fighter - Coordinated Shot 5 - Fighter 6 - Fighter - Weapon Spec, Many Shot 7 - Fighter 8 - Fighter - Ranged Weapon Mastery 9 - Fighter - Imp. Critical 10 - Fighter - Greater Weapon Focus 11 - Fighter 12 - Fighter - Imp. Precise, Greater Weapon Spec 13 - Fighter 14 - Fighter - Dead Eye (Dragon Compendium Feat - Adds Dex to damage) 15 - Ranger - Imp. Favored Enemy 16 - Fighter 17 - Fighter - Feat Slot 18 - Fighter - Feat Slot 19 - Fighter - Weapon Supremacy 20 – Fighter Played as a volley archer in a party of 7. Ranger level comes really late so i can add a favored enemy that fits the PC in terms of roleplaying and fits the game in terms of story line. Being able to use Ranger wands isnt a bad side effect either. 19 lvls of Fighter isnt to bad, eh? He gets a pretty solid bonus to damage on each arrow (roughly +17/arrow based on Dex vs. non-favored enemies). The only bit of cheese here is the addition of the Dead Eye feat, which is from the Dragon Compendium. Hes really accurate, so he shouldnt have to much trouble landing most shots. I might decide to add in Imp. Rapid shot in one of the late game feat slots but we will see. Hes currently only lvl 4 but Ive got high hopes for him. It never hurts to have a Fighter standing back with the wizard types too. What he lacks in skill / abilities he makes up for in that respect. Let me know any critisism, nothing is in stone as hes only lvl 4 :).
nbhs275 05-14-06, 08:36 AM	You deserce this for posting archer, not bow user. Now here is my suggestion:CROSSBOW! Take crossbow sniper and scout. Now what levels you take exactly depends, with shadow dancer being a decent prc. Your dex will be more important then your strength, so you can drop into a very accurate small form(whisper gnomes are a great race for this,especially if you mix his skirmish and silence abilities. Take shot on the run and the add-ons from the PHB II so you can make 2-3 of these attacks a turn. This ends up looking like this with a straight 20 scout whisper gnome(dex is 36-38) +5 light crossbow 2-3x(1d6+14+5d6+5+bolt enhancments)with an average of 40 each with an average bolt now with +5 5element light crossbow with a +5 5element bolt(not optimized but fun) 2-3x(1d6+14+5d6+5d6+5d6+10) each bolt doing an average of 80, plus you can do this at up to sixty feet away, and then back even farther up
GhostStepper 05-14-06, 02:15 PM	i hope you can clarifiy a few things for me since i was thinking the crossbow idea could be a good one. Take shot on the run and the add-ons from the PHB II so you can make 2-3 of these attacks a turn. This ends up looking like this with a straight 20 scout whisper gnome(dex is 36-38) how are you getting your dex that high? even with magic item 36-38 is nuts +5 light crossbow 2-3x(1d6+14+5d6+5+bolt enhancments)with an average of 40 each with an average bolt now with +5 5element light crossbow with a +5 5element bolt(not optimized but fun) is there a feat in the PHB2 that allows you to move (to get your skirmish damage) and still get 2-3 attacks with a crossbow? If so, sweet. And where are you getting the +14 from? Even with a dex of 38, crossbow sniper only gives you a bonus on damage equal to half your dex bonus. Is there another feat the improves this? 2-3x(1d6+14+5d6+5d6+5d6+10) each bolt doing an average of 80, plus you can do this at up to sixty feet away, and then back even farther up 2-3 attacks with skirmish aside...where are are all these 5d6s coming from? and +10? Im not familiar with the elemental bolt you were talking about, does it multiply skirmish somehow?
Pinky's brain 05-14-06, 02:19 PM	Dunno where the last 3 are supposed to come from ... but 20 base +4 leveling +5 inherent +6 enhancement = 35. There are no feats to get extra attacks with shot on the run though AFAIK. Flyby attack + manyshot is much better anyways.
GhostStepper 05-14-06, 02:32 PM	Dunno where the last 2 are supposed to come from ... but 20 base +4 leveling +6 inherent +6 enhancement = 36. There are no feats to get extra attacks with shot on the run though AFAIK. Flyby attack + manyshot is much better anyways. now that i look at it i guess its not that bad by 20th level. +6 inherent bonus from manuals is like 165,000 gp and +6 gloves of dexterity is 36,000 gp so its affordable at that level.
nbhs275 05-14-06, 03:35 PM	i screwed up on +14, it should be +7 from dex..oops.. the elemental means your choice of flaming, icy, ect,ect. enchantments, for a +5d6 bonus, plus the same enhancement on your crossbow. And i was grabbing the +38 from a build with paragon levels im working on, so you probably would have a 36 dex, and good ability scores, seeing as most archer builds require 18 dex and a high strength. While other builds work on boosting both of those abilities with expensive enhancement, you can focus on a more powerful crossbow and bolts, so every shot you take is effective. I don't personally have the PHB II at this moment but am making the assumption that seeing as spring attacks getting add ons, so will its ranged counterpart. And what i think is the best part of this build? YOU HAVE A FREE HAND!! Whether this means that you have a melee weapon, a shield or a wand in that hand, you gain A LOT of vercitility quick(and seeing as you don't have all your points in your dex and strength, you can have an int high enough to let you use that wand and/or scroll.
GhostStepper 05-14-06, 03:54 PM	the elemental means your choice of flaming, icy, ect,ect. enchantments, for a +5d6 bonus, plus the same enhancement on your crossbow. oh, ok. you mean icey AND flaming AND shocking etc..for a total of 5d6 I still think you might be better off with something greater multishot based considering you cant get your full attack while moving enough to get the skirmish bonus to damage. That is unless...you use the Sparry Dummy of the Master (AEG pg 137) which allows you to take 10 ft. steps inseat of 5 ft steps. Then you can make full attacks after moving your 10ft to get skirmish damage.
Auldar 08-06-06, 09:56 PM	That is unless...you use the Sparry Dummy of the Master (AEG pg 137) which allows you to take 10 ft. steps inseat of 5 ft steps. Then you can make full attacks after moving your 10ft to get skirmish damage. Wow, never noticed that one.. Needs 1 level of monk to use it, but wow.. 10' steps.
Optimator 08-06-06, 11:38 PM	Or be able to roll above 40 in tumble, right?
Auldar 08-06-06, 11:45 PM	Or be able to roll above 40 in tumble, right? Not sure who that's directed to? The Sparring Dummy indicates you must have 1 level of monk to train with the dummy to gain the benefit of making 10' steps. A tumble check of 40 wouldn't allow you to move 10' and then make a full-round attack..
highbulp 08-07-06, 12:49 AM	I've looked at a number of Archer threads, and it doesn't look like any of them even mention the possibility of using Arcane Archer. Is it comparatively that weak a PrC? My archer character's build is Wizard 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Free 1/Deepwood Sniper 3/Arcane Archer 10/Free 1. The idea is a sniper character--one who can hit from really really far away for a killing strike (especially with poison, Arrow of Death, and Phase Arrow), though he wouldn't necessarily shine in straight combat. It's not that optimized, but I like the concept and think it would be fun to play.
Blade2718 08-07-06, 01:31 AM	Arcane Archer is not good because it doesn't advance spellcasting. It's good for a two level dip, but beyond that...is forgettable.
TrackStar 08-07-06, 01:47 AM	I see mention of the DwS in this thread for a 3.5 build... does it say somewhere that you can use the 3.0 build for 3.5? Was it updated somewhere? I thought we lost the DwS to 3.0?
Skarlett Spyder 08-07-06, 02:05 AM	Was it updated somewhere? I thought we lost the DwS to 3.0? We did lose it. Why it's being mentioned in a 3.5 ARCHER THREAD is beyond me. It was good, but it's still 3.0.
Frieza-Prexus 08-07-06, 05:29 AM	A tumble check of 40 wouldn't allow you to move 10' and then make a full-round attack.. There's a rule in Oriental Adventures that allows you to 10' step instead of a 5' step on a dc 40 tumble check. That same sections allows a dc 35 check to stand up from prone as a free action that provokes AoO.
Pinky's brain 08-07-06, 05:36 AM	OA isn't 3.5 either ...
nbhs275 08-07-06, 10:01 AM	OotBI and zen archery can lead to some very accurate shots, even with greater manyshot. That plus some monk/scout levels and your looking very good. If only you could use flurry with a bow/greater manyshot.
Pinky's brain 08-07-06, 11:19 AM	nbhs275, that makes absolutely 0 sense. OOTBI does nothing for your accuracy except that it has full BAB ... ranged precision can't even be used with manyshot (greater or not). Sacrificing BAB for the monk's AC bonus when you can simply get a monk's belt makes no sense either.
nbhs275 08-07-06, 11:36 AM	if i remember correctly with OotBI and zen archery let you use both wisdom and dexterity on attack rolls. Or maybe that was changed in 3.5. But if thats still true, it means you can get a much larger bonus. 30(16+2 leveling,6 item, 6 tome) dex and 30(16+2 leveling,6 item, 6 tome) wis means a +20 to hit before BaB, items or feats. Even if you only dip into it enough to gain the ability and use this with close range greater manyshots. But if this has changed from 3.0, then yes, this concept is null and void.
Pinky's brain 08-07-06, 11:47 AM	Wow, the 3.0 OotBI was actually a usefull PrC ... I wonder why they turned it into a waste of paper for CW.