3.5 Arena Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Arena Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CubeKnight
09-29-04, 10:29 AM Hey guys, could you help me check over this build? It's for an arena game, I already have the basics on what I want but some input would be nice.

The starting ECL is 12. Allowed Books are Complete Warrrio, Complete Divine, Savage Species and XPH, besides the SRD.

So, here are my main points:
-> Pure druid or taking a couple of PrC?
Seeker of the Misty Island and Contemplative look good, due to the domains. I'm sure I'll need fly, casters over there love flying around. Even tough I could use WildShape to become an aerial creature, being a flying bear is better.
-> Human or another race?
Humans are the standard druid. However, Seeker of the Misty Island requires being an elf or half elf. Also, there are the antropomorphic races. However, most of the are house ruled and give max a +4 Wis (Bat, Raven and Toad have LA +0 and +4 Wis)
-> What feats?
I don't think I should take the summonning feats. The DM ruled the Protection from [Alignment] protects you from all summoned creatures except those directly opposing the alignment, so a simple protection from evil renders all your summoned crits useless.
Extend spell doesn't look that great, as most battles will be over in less than 12 rounds. Quicken OTOH, seems attractive, for the same reason.
->Divine Metamagic?
Even if I usually don't care about Cha, if there's a way to get turning without losing a caster level, it might interest me to power Divine Metamagic
-> Aging?
Aging sounds like a good idea. WildShape will make me care next to nothing about physical stats, and so I could raise my Wis.
-> 1 Monk dip?
Due to being a no magic items arena, there's no chance I'll ever get a monk's belt, so it makes the monk level dip interesting.

About the Arena itself, here are some of the details:
- "Special" point buy. You start with 6 in all scores and have 40 points to spend on a 1:1 ratio.
- No magic items
- 2 preparation rounds before the battle
- *Must* have at least 7 caster levels
- Psionics and Magic are transparent.
- HP is max for each level
- Uses fractional BAB and stacking saves.

So, the two builds I'm considering the most are:

Old Elf Druid 10/Seeker of the Misty Island 1/Contemplative 1
Feats: Empower Spell, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Natural Spell, Oaken Resilency
Domains: Travel, Celerity
Str: 6, Dex: 6, Con: 12, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 12

Human (or antopomorphic bat/raven/toad) Druid 12
Feats: Empower Spell, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Natural Spell, Oaken Resilency, Fast WildShape

I take Oaken Resilency for the immunities it grants. I'm also thinking of Fast WildShape, which my DM has ruled it would lower the time it takes to activate wild feats as well as normal wildshape.

So, any ideas? Opinions? Something I missed? Anything?

Oh, and regarding the Knowledge (Religion) ranks to qualify for Contemplative, I'm planning on using my high Int and 6+Int skill points from Seeker of the Misty Island to get enough ranks. I'd take the SotMI level at CL 11, and Contemplative at 12.

EDIT: My mistake, I can't take Oaken Resilency until I can wildshape into a plant, right? So, what feats do you recomend me instead of it?
FunkyTrip
09-30-04, 01:49 PM Summoning is one of the big strengths of a druid. Why not focus on dispelling other people's protections. The moment their protection is gone with a well placed dispell (3rd level, so you have a bunch of them), your critters can go wacko.

Will also get rid of all the other invis vs animals spells etc and buff spells.

If at least 7 spellcasting levels are needed, you will rule the battlefield in close combat, so you can focus all your skills and abilities on protecting yourself vs spells.

Just get those Dispels to work and any opponent will bite the dust.
cool hand luke
09-30-04, 02:21 PM well the house rule about summons absolutely sucks for this one. WHere in the world did he get that. IN general, druids rock at this stuff. ONe thing you need to think about more is your animal companion, that's some powerful stuff. you are 2 levels shy of the absolutely phenomenal Huge rhino. however, the polar bear, especially if animal growthed, is going to give you a grappling partner that will absolutely crush most enemies. Yeah, his will save sucks, but every round they spend dealing with him is one less they are doing you damage.
CubeKnight
09-30-04, 07:31 PM ONe thing you need to think about more is your animal companion, that's some powerful stuff. you are 2 levels shy of the absolutely phenomenal Huge rhino. however, the polar bear, especially if animal growthed, is going to give you a grappling partner that will absolutely crush most enemies. Yeah, his will save sucks, but every round they spend dealing with him is one less they are doing you damage.

Right, I forgot to mention this.

For some reason (read: the DM thinks druids are overpowered), druids and rangers can have their animal companions, but wizards, sorcerers, and paladins can have their familiars/mounts.

And you're right... I can't believe I forgot about dispelling the Protection Spells.

Then, do you think I should take the Augment Summoning?
What about the domains? In this case, would the Summoner domain be useful? I find it quite weak, specially compared to celerity's Time Stop, Haste, and other spells.
MoonWizard
09-30-04, 08:50 PM I'd follow the wise Yekoj when he says the number two feat every druid should take is Blindsight (from MotW) and cast Obscuring Mist or use a smoke stick for battle. Or use a few Darkberries from MoF. Either way, use them on your self and wade into combat bolstered by a 20 or 100% concealment (good defense) and attack accordingly, unhindered by the loss of sight.

Cast Produce Flame (empowered) to add an avg of 12.75 fire dam/claw (2 claws is 25.5 dam) for each successful slash with a claw or, if you win the grapple check, you'll add the 25.5 automatically.

Good luck!
thorian
09-30-04, 08:54 PM well the house rule about summons absolutely sucks for this one. WHere in the world did he get that.
Not sure why you are saying that. Protection from Evil protects against summoned creatures, except good ones. That is the RAW, not some house rule.

As for the arena, it sounds like the Crucible Arena, Certamin Magica. I play Awk and Eljinn over there, so I can't help you too much. ;) I think the summoning domain is a little redundant for a druid, but it does make your summons harder to dispel and gives a little variety with summon monster spells to add to your spontaneous summon nature's ally spells. If you choose Augment Summoning, it is often more optimal to create more low-level creatures, than one higher level creature, since the augment applies to each creature.

Dispelling buffs and protections is a good tactic since there are no magic items allowed, and therefore few defenses.

As for race, human is nice for the extra feat, and you will probably be wildshaped, so you don't need to choose a race with str, dex or con bonuses.

As for domains, I would choose Travel over Celerity. A teleport, fly or d-door is better than haste, blur, etc. IMO.

Good luck and I'll see you there.
CubeKnight
09-30-04, 09:17 PM As for the arena, it sounds like the Crucible Arena, Certamin Magica. I play Awk and Eljinn over there, so I can't help you too much. ;) I think the summoning domain is a little redundant for a druid, but it does make your summons harder to dispel and gives a little variety with summon monster spells to add to your spontaneous summon nature's ally spells. If you choose Augment Summoning, it is often more optimal to create more low-level creatures, than one higher level creature, since the augment applies to each creature.

Dispelling buffs and protections is a good tactic since there are no magic items allowed, and therefore few defenses.

As for race, human is nice for the extra feat, and you will probably be wildshaped, so you don't need to choose a race with str, dex or con bonuses.

As for domains, I would choose Travel over Celerity. A teleport, fly or d-door is better than haste, blur, etc. IMO.

Good luck and I'll see you there.

So you frequent this Boards as well Awk, no wonder you could beat me. This is Solemnos' player =)

I know about summoning more lower level crits, it's quite nice to have a small army following you.

Regarding the domains, if I go elf, the Seeker of the Misty Island grants me the Travel domain, so I tought celerity would make a fine second domain, tough luck also looks interesting, mainly for the granted ability.

And the reason I'm thinking about elf and not human is precisely that PrC. IMO, an extra domain > an extra feat.

MoonWizard, unfortunately, Masters of the WIld isn't allowed, so no Blindsight for me. Believe me, I take that feat every time I can. Also no Darkberries, but IIRC, there's a blindsight spell on SS, so I'll have to use that.
thugpoetry
09-30-04, 11:52 PM Throian, can you quote me a page and book on having a Prot. from Evil protecting from all non-good summoned creatures?
thorian
10-01-04, 04:37 AM Throian, can you quote me a page and book on having a Prot. from Evil protecting from all non-good summoned creatures?
It is under the Protection from Evil spell, pg 266 in the PHB. Here is a quote from the SRD:
Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect.
thorian
10-01-04, 04:39 AM So you frequent this Boards as well Awk, no wonder you could beat me. This is Solemnos' player =)
Actually, none of my characters have anything to do with builds here. Optimizing for arena battles with constrained conditions is much different from optimizing a character for a normal campaign.
CubeKnight
10-01-04, 10:48 AM Actually, none of my characters have anything to do with builds here. Optimizing for arena battles with constrained conditions is much different from optimizing a character for a normal campaign.

Well, same here actually. For Solemnos, I just went with an idea I had and wanted to try, posted it here only once and it didn't get much attention. But still, I went ahead and tried to optimize it as much as I could. And it works, I haven't lost that many fights. Yours with your insane DC Finger of Death, against a telekinesis grappler and I think that's it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CubeKnight 09-29-04, 10:29 AM	Hey guys, could you help me check over this build? It's for an arena game, I already have the basics on what I want but some input would be nice. The starting ECL is 12. Allowed Books are Complete Warrrio, Complete Divine, Savage Species and XPH, besides the SRD. So, here are my main points: -> Pure druid or taking a couple of PrC? Seeker of the Misty Island and Contemplative look good, due to the domains. I'm sure I'll need fly, casters over there love flying around. Even tough I could use WildShape to become an aerial creature, being a flying bear is better. -> Human or another race? Humans are the standard druid. However, Seeker of the Misty Island requires being an elf or half elf. Also, there are the antropomorphic races. However, most of the are house ruled and give max a +4 Wis (Bat, Raven and Toad have LA +0 and +4 Wis) -> What feats? I don't think I should take the summonning feats. The DM ruled the Protection from [Alignment] protects you from all summoned creatures except those directly opposing the alignment, so a simple protection from evil renders all your summoned crits useless. Extend spell doesn't look that great, as most battles will be over in less than 12 rounds. Quicken OTOH, seems attractive, for the same reason. ->Divine Metamagic? Even if I usually don't care about Cha, if there's a way to get turning without losing a caster level, it might interest me to power Divine Metamagic -> Aging? Aging sounds like a good idea. WildShape will make me care next to nothing about physical stats, and so I could raise my Wis. -> 1 Monk dip? Due to being a no magic items arena, there's no chance I'll ever get a monk's belt, so it makes the monk level dip interesting. About the Arena itself, here are some of the details: - "Special" point buy. You start with 6 in all scores and have 40 points to spend on a 1:1 ratio. - No magic items - 2 preparation rounds before the battle - Must have at least 7 caster levels - Psionics and Magic are transparent. - HP is max for each level - Uses fractional BAB and stacking saves. So, the two builds I'm considering the most are: Old Elf Druid 10/Seeker of the Misty Island 1/Contemplative 1 Feats: Empower Spell, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Natural Spell, Oaken Resilency Domains: Travel, Celerity Str: 6, Dex: 6, Con: 12, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 12 Human (or antopomorphic bat/raven/toad) Druid 12 Feats: Empower Spell, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Natural Spell, Oaken Resilency, Fast WildShape I take Oaken Resilency for the immunities it grants. I'm also thinking of Fast WildShape, which my DM has ruled it would lower the time it takes to activate wild feats as well as normal wildshape. So, any ideas? Opinions? Something I missed? Anything? Oh, and regarding the Knowledge (Religion) ranks to qualify for Contemplative, I'm planning on using my high Int and 6+Int skill points from Seeker of the Misty Island to get enough ranks. I'd take the SotMI level at CL 11, and Contemplative at 12. EDIT: My mistake, I can't take Oaken Resilency until I can wildshape into a plant, right? So, what feats do you recomend me instead of it?
FunkyTrip 09-30-04, 01:49 PM	Summoning is one of the big strengths of a druid. Why not focus on dispelling other people's protections. The moment their protection is gone with a well placed dispell (3rd level, so you have a bunch of them), your critters can go wacko. Will also get rid of all the other invis vs animals spells etc and buff spells. If at least 7 spellcasting levels are needed, you will rule the battlefield in close combat, so you can focus all your skills and abilities on protecting yourself vs spells. Just get those Dispels to work and any opponent will bite the dust.
cool hand luke 09-30-04, 02:21 PM	well the house rule about summons absolutely sucks for this one. WHere in the world did he get that. IN general, druids rock at this stuff. ONe thing you need to think about more is your animal companion, that's some powerful stuff. you are 2 levels shy of the absolutely phenomenal Huge rhino. however, the polar bear, especially if animal growthed, is going to give you a grappling partner that will absolutely crush most enemies. Yeah, his will save sucks, but every round they spend dealing with him is one less they are doing you damage.
CubeKnight 09-30-04, 07:31 PM	ONe thing you need to think about more is your animal companion, that's some powerful stuff. you are 2 levels shy of the absolutely phenomenal Huge rhino. however, the polar bear, especially if animal growthed, is going to give you a grappling partner that will absolutely crush most enemies. Yeah, his will save sucks, but every round they spend dealing with him is one less they are doing you damage. Right, I forgot to mention this. For some reason (read: the DM thinks druids are overpowered), druids and rangers can have their animal companions, but wizards, sorcerers, and paladins can have their familiars/mounts. And you're right... I can't believe I forgot about dispelling the Protection Spells. Then, do you think I should take the Augment Summoning? What about the domains? In this case, would the Summoner domain be useful? I find it quite weak, specially compared to celerity's Time Stop, Haste, and other spells.
MoonWizard 09-30-04, 08:50 PM	I'd follow the wise Yekoj when he says the number two feat every druid should take is Blindsight (from MotW) and cast Obscuring Mist or use a smoke stick for battle. Or use a few Darkberries from MoF. Either way, use them on your self and wade into combat bolstered by a 20 or 100% concealment (good defense) and attack accordingly, unhindered by the loss of sight. Cast Produce Flame (empowered) to add an avg of 12.75 fire dam/claw (2 claws is 25.5 dam) for each successful slash with a claw or, if you win the grapple check, you'll add the 25.5 automatically. Good luck!
thorian 09-30-04, 08:54 PM	well the house rule about summons absolutely sucks for this one. WHere in the world did he get that. Not sure why you are saying that. Protection from Evil protects against summoned creatures, except good ones. That is the RAW, not some house rule. As for the arena, it sounds like the Crucible Arena, Certamin Magica. I play Awk and Eljinn over there, so I can't help you too much. ;) I think the summoning domain is a little redundant for a druid, but it does make your summons harder to dispel and gives a little variety with summon monster spells to add to your spontaneous summon nature's ally spells. If you choose Augment Summoning, it is often more optimal to create more low-level creatures, than one higher level creature, since the augment applies to each creature. Dispelling buffs and protections is a good tactic since there are no magic items allowed, and therefore few defenses. As for race, human is nice for the extra feat, and you will probably be wildshaped, so you don't need to choose a race with str, dex or con bonuses. As for domains, I would choose Travel over Celerity. A teleport, fly or d-door is better than haste, blur, etc. IMO. Good luck and I'll see you there.
CubeKnight 09-30-04, 09:17 PM	As for the arena, it sounds like the Crucible Arena, Certamin Magica. I play Awk and Eljinn over there, so I can't help you too much. ;) I think the summoning domain is a little redundant for a druid, but it does make your summons harder to dispel and gives a little variety with summon monster spells to add to your spontaneous summon nature's ally spells. If you choose Augment Summoning, it is often more optimal to create more low-level creatures, than one higher level creature, since the augment applies to each creature. Dispelling buffs and protections is a good tactic since there are no magic items allowed, and therefore few defenses. As for race, human is nice for the extra feat, and you will probably be wildshaped, so you don't need to choose a race with str, dex or con bonuses. As for domains, I would choose Travel over Celerity. A teleport, fly or d-door is better than haste, blur, etc. IMO. Good luck and I'll see you there. So you frequent this Boards as well Awk, no wonder you could beat me. This is Solemnos' player =) I know about summoning more lower level crits, it's quite nice to have a small army following you. Regarding the domains, if I go elf, the Seeker of the Misty Island grants me the Travel domain, so I tought celerity would make a fine second domain, tough luck also looks interesting, mainly for the granted ability. And the reason I'm thinking about elf and not human is precisely that PrC. IMO, an extra domain > an extra feat. MoonWizard, unfortunately, Masters of the WIld isn't allowed, so no Blindsight for me. Believe me, I take that feat every time I can. Also no Darkberries, but IIRC, there's a blindsight spell on SS, so I'll have to use that.
thugpoetry 09-30-04, 11:52 PM	Throian, can you quote me a page and book on having a Prot. from Evil protecting from all non-good summoned creatures?
thorian 10-01-04, 04:37 AM	Throian, can you quote me a page and book on having a Prot. from Evil protecting from all non-good summoned creatures? It is under the Protection from Evil spell, pg 266 in the PHB. Here is a quote from the SRD: Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect.
thorian 10-01-04, 04:39 AM	So you frequent this Boards as well Awk, no wonder you could beat me. This is Solemnos' player =) Actually, none of my characters have anything to do with builds here. Optimizing for arena battles with constrained conditions is much different from optimizing a character for a normal campaign.
CubeKnight 10-01-04, 10:48 AM	Actually, none of my characters have anything to do with builds here. Optimizing for arena battles with constrained conditions is much different from optimizing a character for a normal campaign. Well, same here actually. For Solemnos, I just went with an idea I had and wanted to try, posted it here only once and it didn't get much attention. But still, I went ahead and tried to optimize it as much as I could. And it works, I haven't lost that many fights. Yours with your insane DC Finger of Death, against a telekinesis grappler and I think that's it.