Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Honorable_Rogue 10-03-06, 10:54 PM	Hi everyone. :) This is my first post here so if I use inappropriate format or something please just let me know and I'll rectify it as best I can. ;) I've played RPGs for about 25 years now. Most of that time was spent on D&D (in its various forms) but around the time 3.5 came out my group switched to Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, and then to d20 Future...so I'm kind of rusty on D&D in general and very new to 3.5 in particular and I was hoping to get some feedback on some character creation choices I need to make for an upcoming game. Character Parameters: A 1st-level character (preferably human, half-elf, or elf) who is very effective in combat as well as skilled at interaction (primarily Bluff, but Diplomacy would be nice too if it doesn't undercut the other priorities). I particularly like unarmed and acrobatic abilities but they aren't essential. Must be geared to a proactive and action-oriented, yet strategic and problem-solving play style. I don't mind skulking around, but I like to be able to mix it up too. Ability Scores: Ability scores are being generated using the point buy system from Iron Heroes. You receive 24 points to distribute, with costs as follows: ABILITY..........COST ....10................0 ....11................1 ....12................2 ....13................3 ....14................4 ....15................5 ....16................7 ....17................9 ....18................13 Sources Permitted: Only the core 3.5 PHB rules are permitted, no other house rules or sources. Aside from ability scores, everything is to be by the book lol. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you. :)
HamHam 10-03-06, 11:14 PM	The only things in Core that really fit that are Bard, Rogue, and Sorcerer. Are the DMG Prcs available? If so, Shadow Dancer, Arcane Trickster, and Eldritch Knight expand your options. Assuming not... Go Bard. Then go into Fighter for two levels. Then either back into Bard or into Rogue. Assume they are... Bard/Rogue/Shadow Dancer Sorcerer/Fighter/Eldritch Knight Would both work. PS: But nothing beats Cleric for sheer power, just so you know.
Honorable_Rogue 10-03-06, 11:17 PM	Thank you very much for the quick reply. I was thinking pretty much the same thing lol. I'm not sure what will be allowed down the line in terms of PrCs to be honest. Is a cleric with the Trickery Domain considered viable in 3.5?
ShneekeyTheLost 10-03-06, 11:37 PM	Okay, you've got a few choices: 1) Elven Rogue. Elves in 3.5 get a nifty ability that lets them make a search check when they get close to a secret/concealed door. Since you're gonna have Search, it's a very handy thing. Also, as an Elf, you get access to the Composite Longbow. Jack up your Dex, don't worry too much about your Strength or Wisdom. Con should at least be average, and don't forget your penalty there. Cha should be jacked up pretty high as well, and Int should be at least average. You're wanting Bluff, Slight of Hand, Diplomacy, Search, Spot, Open Locks, Tumble and Disable Device at an absolute minimum. This lets you be the trap finder, and the charismatic smooth talker. Tumble lets you bypass Attacks of Opportunity for moving past an opponent to get into melee range. Use a Rapier as your melee weapon, and pick up Weapon Finesse later on to use it to the utmost. You should also have a Longbow. Suggested feats are Combat Expertise to get Improved Feint. This way you can feint as a move action, which opens them up to a sneak attack for your next action. Quick Draw is handy for rapid switching of weapons. Two Weapon Fighting is always handy for Rogues to max your your sneak attacking, but may not be for you. 2) Human Monk. This is a more martial build than the Rogue build, but not as much a smooth operator. You should take Dodge and Mobility as your first level feats (humans get that sweet bonus feat, yanno). Tumble is again an important skill, although you don't need to get Open Locks or Disable Device. Monks get Diplomacy as a class skill, but NOT bluff, so you're not quite as smooth a talker. The main advantage of this build is pure damage output. It's a tumbling, no armor wearing, acrobatic combatant who will dish out serious damage. His goal is to tumble past the critter, letting the Tank face it, and pound on it from behind, using his Flurry of Blows to deal good damage. This build has a problem with needing multiple stats. Str, Dex, and Wis are all very important to a monk, as Str is damage, and Dex and Wis are AC. Int is a ditch stat, Con should be decent, and Cha might be important if you plan on using Diplomacy a lot. You should look into getting Spring Attack when you qualify, as it allows you to jump in, smack an opponent, then jump out of range before they can retaliate. With a high Tumble check, you can dance through whole crowds of opponents virtually at will.
nittanytbone 10-03-06, 11:41 PM	Clerics and druids are very potent in a core only environment (heck, in any environment!). Honestly, druids are quite complex due to the amount of errata involved with Wildshape/Polymorph, so for simplicity's sake I'd stick with a cleric. They offer a versatile spell list good from level 1-20, a few good skills (like Diplomacy, in your case, as well as Spellcraft), and robust combat abilities. For pure combat and casting power, you won't want to dilute your cleric with ANY multiclassing. Thus, pick at least one domain that scales with level (perhaps Travel). If you want the social skills boost, Trickery could be useful. Now, the only social skills you're missing are Sense Motive and Gather Information. I'd set up attributes as follows: Str - 14 (4) Dex - 13 (3) Con - 14 (4) Int - 14 (4) Wis - 15 (5) Cha - 14 (4) Wisdom needs to be at least 15 to gurantee high level spells (and bonus spells) on time with regular stat boosts. Int 14, because you have a lot of nice skills to take advantage of with the Trickery domain. Con 14 because you don't want to die. Cha 14 because you specifically want a social character, and because it happens to help with Turn Undead. Put what's left into Str and Dex -- you'll be wearing full plate and wielding a morningstar & shield, most likely. The other option -- IF your party does not have a trapfinder -- is to "Front Load" one level of rogue. This gets you a ton of skill points, a bit of sneak attack (gravy), but most importantly, the trapfinding ability. Max out Search and Disable Device cross class through your career. If your DM lets you use the Cloistered Cleric variant from UA, this is much more viable. As a note, the "Find Traps" spell lets you simulate the trapfinding ability, and if you're a dwarf, stonecutting lets you look for stonework traps -- but you won't be able to max out Search, which hurts a lot.
Honorable_Rogue 10-03-06, 11:58 PM	Wow I have a lot to think about now lol thanks so much for the replies guys this is a big help :)
HamHam 10-04-06, 12:09 AM	Clerics are always viable. My recommendation: Human Cleric Trickery Domain and whatever else is cool (Travel is always good) I would go for a slightly different stat distribution than nittanytbone: Str 14 Dex 12 Con 15 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 12 Then pick up Extend Spell and Combat Expertise as your feats. Other options might be Weapon Focus: Touch Attack, Spell Focus, other Metamagics. In case you don't know, Combat Casting sucks.
Honorable_Rogue 10-04-06, 01:12 AM	Lol, good to know. You guys are awesome, thanks. And by all means if anyone has more suggestions I'd love to hear 'em. :)
GaffeR 10-04-06, 01:49 AM	I'd probably run with either the Trickery Cleric or the Rogue/Fighter. I'd play the Cleric, since I never have. As far as feats go, I'd probably pick up: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, EWP: Spiked Chain, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Extend Spell and Quicken Spell. Maybe craft wonderous later? Combat would go something like: Round 1: Buff, Quickened Buff (at high levels) Round 2: Smash face with spiked chain o' doom.
Honorable_Rogue 10-04-06, 05:36 PM	Thanks a lot for all the input, I appreciate it. One thing I'm wondering is, a couple of you have suggested Combat Reflexes as a feat...with a Dex of 12 or 13 I'm not sure I see a reason for it, especially with a cleric...what am I missing lol?
Brol_The_Mighty 10-05-06, 01:54 AM	Most likely its for other feat pre-req's. I personally LOVE the druid. See if you can get the feat Natural Spell (CV i believe) cleared, and you're golden. They've got the melee covered through WS, and spellcasting love :D
PhaedrusXY 10-05-06, 02:39 AM	Most likely its for other feat pre-req's. I personally LOVE the druid. See if you can get the feat Natural Spell (CV i believe) cleared, and you're golden. They've got the melee covered through WS, and spellcasting love :DNatural Spell is in the Player's Handbook.
Honorable_Rogue 10-05-06, 08:16 PM	Thank you to everyone for your advice...I definitely have a lot to think about. :)
nittanytbone 10-06-06, 09:46 AM	Thanks a lot for all the input, I appreciate it. One thing I'm wondering is, a couple of you have suggested Combat Reflexes as a feat...with a Dex of 12 or 13 I'm not sure I see a reason for it, especially with a cleric...what am I missing lol? If you go the Combat Reflexes route you should probably have at least 14 dex. Most of the suggestions have been in conjunction with spiked chain usage. The spiked chain threatens such a large area that you can easily get many AoO with it. If you combine that with Improved Trip its devastating against humanoid opponents, especially at the lower levels. I would suggest against that strategy in this build due to MAD. You want high cha (social skills, turn undead). You want high wis (you're a cleric). You want high int (you've got good skills to invest in). You want high str and con (melee capable). Something has to give, and dex (along with str) is your least important stat.
Honorable_Rogue 10-07-06, 12:47 AM	Thank you for the clarification and the advice. You guys have helped me narrow down my choices a lot. :)