Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hovnarr 10-05-05, 10:06 AM	I've heard talk about a sorceror/archmage with reactive counterspell and heighten spell, but find it hard to make a workable build. Here's the rundown: Counterspell basics (4 feats) Reactive counterspell -> Improved counterspell -> Improved initiative Heighten spell (to increase the level of, say, a cantrip on the fly) Having all that makes you want to have Mastery of Counterspelling from archmage, for another 3 (mostly useless) feats. That's 7 feats total. To function as a primary caster at all, however, you need Spell penetration and Greater SP. That's 9 feats total. A human or StrH Halfling gets 8 feats pre-epic. Tossing in some PrC for a net gain of 1 feat has proven difficult for me, but even if this could be done the fact remains: you get none of those juicy metamagic feats (silent spell, empower spell etc.) that make the sorceror shine. The only way to amend this would be Incantatrix (though you still need more non-metamagic feats to pull the build off), but Focused Study CRIPPLES the whole counterspelling idea... What to do? I'd like suggestion for full CL PrCs that give a good net gain of feats - especially those with prereqs suitable for the above build. The way I see it now, Archmage simply isn't worth it despite the Mastery of Counterspelling, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Anyway, feats (8) to have are: Counterspelling chain (4), SP, GSP, Silent Sp, Empower Sp. Let's say we drop archmage, what PrCs would you suggest for the counterspelling sorceror? They don't necessarily have to EMPHASIZE the counterspelling part further, as long as the don't break it (like Incantatrix). I'm tempted by Fatespinner(4) as it doesn't cost any feats and maybe Elemental Savant(4) if can get the Energy Sub. back through the net gain of another PrC (suggestions?). Maybe a dip into Mindbender is worth it (?) Anything is better than straight sorceror...
Wilds 10-05-05, 10:10 AM	I dotn think that a metamagic feat could be used by a sorcerer to counterspell another feat unless that sorcerer has that prepared somehow. Cause metamagic takes a action longer, and i dont think u can ready an action that will take a full turn game wise to happen yes any but straight sorcerer is good.
hovnarr 10-05-05, 10:24 AM	A readied action must be a standard action, yes. But Reactive counterspell does not require a readied action (nor a standard action for that matter). So you couldn't do the "heighten trick" until you had reactive counterspell (which you could have by level 6). Apart from that, metamagic spells counter their non-metamagic versions and vice versa. Straight sorceror is so-so, and there's no reason in the world not to take a PrC that reasonably fits your concept (unless you really want a familiar that's more intelligent than you are).
hovnarr 10-05-05, 05:44 PM	Here's an idea to get things going: The biggest problem for sorcerors and arcane advancing classes is limited skill points and to many cc skills. This is usually remedied by the Education feat, making all knowledge skills class skills. Here's an alternative: find an easily accessible PrC with, say, 4 skill points/level, full caster progression and a good assortment of class skills. Take enough levels of that PrC to qualify for other PrCs. Is there any such PrC? I don't have the Planar Handbook, but the "visionary seeker" caught my eye - does it have caster progression at all, and what about skills? It's easy to enter for a sorceror with (for instance) 8 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana). Maybe it sucks, I dunno.
runestar 10-05-05, 10:23 PM	Wasn't it raised in the faq somewhere that the sage had made an error on that ruling and said combo was illegal right from the start?
hovnarr 10-06-05, 03:38 AM	I haven't read the FAQ, but from what I've heard about that ruling, it involved non-reactive use of the combo. The sage mistake was to think that a sorceror could ready a metamagic spell at all (you can't, since it's basically a full round action). Reactive counterspell circumvents this (though it doesn't say what happens with that move action - could the sorceror "borrow" it from his next action like he does with the standard action?). If anyone can confirm or deny the above with a reference, please do so. Otherwise, let's move on with the PrC questions.
Insignia) 10-07-05, 06:35 AM	:bump: I'm fairly interested in this as well.
hockeyman 10-07-05, 09:37 PM	Hey look in the original Warcraft campaign setting. there are a lot of counterspelling feats and the book was published by WotC if your DM is leary about anything not made by them