3.5 Eldritch knight - best builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Eldritch knight - best builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dain[DK]
07-08-03, 07:42 AM Now as far as I know the 3.5 eldritch knight from DMG is a rather powerful prestige class. Bonus feat at first level and full spellcasting AND BAB progression hereafter. Now the requirements are what - 3rd level arcane spellcasting, or something like that? So I was wondering: If you wanted to do a relatively conservative/simple build (preferably only one prestige class: The Eldritch Knight), what would that be? These are my thoughts:

You will want to have both good fighting and spellcasting capabilities before entering the class. Because you want the fighting you will have to start out as a fighter, paladin or ranger - preferably the fighter, IMO, since I'm not too fond of paladin/sorcerors... or multiclassed paladins in any case. So right now I'm thinking a dwarven fighter 1/Wizard 5. What do you think?
Fastbond
07-08-03, 08:35 AM Well, a favourite of mine is:
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/EK 9/Sacred Exorcist 3
Staying just at 8th level spells, but overall a good build.

But since you don't like them, we may try the preffix you posted.
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10

From here, we have many options. These are the ones that come to mind (note that, while I add another PrCs, it seems fair 'cause you've maxed out EK levels):

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4
BAB +16, Wizard caster level 18+any Spell Power you pick.

Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 2
Horrid Wilting arrows, anyone? The extra level of fighter is for getting the extra feat so you can easily meet AA requirements.
bitnine
07-08-03, 09:51 AM Originally posted by Fastbond
Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 2
Horrid Wilting arrows, anyone? The extra level of fighter is for getting the extra feat so you can easily meet AA requirements.

Yeah, I thought about that build as well. It looks sort of neat. I don't know if I wouldn't rather go for a level of archmage at the end instead of that fighter level; having mastery of shaping would be fairly valuable if you fire your arrows into where you have melee allies very often. At least, they might want you to take it. :P
JosephKell
07-08-03, 11:48 AM Sorcerer would be more powerful and effective than Wizard.

To BEST take advantage of the EK's martial prowess you need to basicly buff! (Not that I wouldn't take one or two attack spells... nah just take Color Spray and Burning hands, Ray of Enfeeblement...!)

Buffs and Counter-Buffs!

Illusion: Defensive
Necromancy: Enemy Weakening
Abjuration: Send off and countering
Conjuration: Bring a friend to the "party," Wall of Stone for zone control
Evocation: Only fireshield, Firewall, and Wall of Force...

EK seems to be meant more for Counterspellers than Mages.

Note that Counterspellers are Martial Mages that use magic more for counterspelling and slaying mages
Dain[DK]
07-08-03, 12:16 PM Sorcerer would be more powerful and effective than Wizard.

Why is that? Do you mean because it multiclasses well with paladin? Because if you don't it's just a matter of opinion. Why wouldn't the wizard be just as powerful?

And by the way - I like wizards better in multiclass builds where you lose caster levels. If you go multiclass sorceror, the delayed spell casting levels hurt even more, I think.
JosephKell
07-08-03, 12:21 PM Originally posted by Dain[DK]
Why is that? Do you mean because it multiclasses well with paladin? Because if you don't it's just a matter of opinion. Why wouldn't the wizard be just as powerful?

And by the way - I like wizards better in multiclass builds where you lose caster levels. If you go multiclass sorceror, the delayed spell casting levels hurt even more, I think.
What spells do you miss? 9th level? The only 9th level spell a Counterspell Sorcerer needs really is Mordikainin's Disjunction.

I was in a Mage Duel (my min/maxed Wizard/Incantrix of 13th level verses an un-min/maxed... he took Quicken Spell... Sorcerer 11, +2 LA race) and it was a Draw... I blinded him and he ran out of Dispel Magics to try and undo it!

If I was a Sorcerer I would've toasted him, but I had to prepare all my defense spells.

But it is a matter of opinion. Wizards work well when they know what they need, Sorcerers work better the rest the time.

in 3.5 you level up spells right... I wonder if Knock levels up into Disintigrate http://www.geocities.com/aielmanspear/diablokingt.txt
Funny Slaughter
07-08-03, 01:36 PM he took Quicken Spell... Sorcerer 11

you mean he really casted a spell like 4 levels higher only to get it as a fullround?
weird.

sorcerers and metamagic...

gs
Funny
bitnine
07-08-03, 01:46 PM Actually, now that I think about it, going sorceror/ek/archmage might not be too bad. go ahead and take the spell like ability of the archmage at the end of the class and have the ability to use quickened true strikes 8x/day by sacrificing two 8th level slots. Indeed, a little harsh on the ol' 8th level spell slots, but using the spell-like arcana to get some decent dependable sorceror quickens isn't a bad thing.

I'd still take arcane prep for other uses, but true strike is something you may want to use a lot (particularly if you go melee/power attack. Of course, this comes in sort of late, so it's not without its disadvantages. Eh, I need to think for a bit, perhaps there are some more optimal spells to take.
JosephKell
07-08-03, 02:09 PM Originally posted by Funny Slaughter
you mean he really casted a spell like 4 levels higher only to get it as a fullround?
weird.

sorcerers and metamagic...

gs
Funny He never used it... but he used a feat on it! he was a Half-Fiend Elf Sorcerer 11!

As I ran out of Spells, I was left with 2 Dimensional Door spells! So I did something crazy... I DD'ed above him (he can fly naturally) and grappled him, effectively knocking him from the sky!

His Fire Immunity made my Fireballs nothing...

But back to my point:

EK is like an any race version of Bladesinger! Look at the Bladesinger spell list! That is practically all an EK needs (not sure if Dispel Magic is on that list...)! Not that Summon Monster wouldn't help!

But a Bard/EK could be really powerful! Spontaneous Heal Spells!

Mithral Buckler, Longsword, Shield Spell, Mage Armor (all of these stack in 3.5)... and you have a defense of 19 + Dex!

If I can make a Counterspeller with 6th level spells, I can take on a Mage!

An Eldritch Knight HAS the BAB, so use it!
Borin
07-08-03, 02:42 PM I think paladin/sorcerer, possibly with sacred exorcist, is great. You can use your charisma for spells, saves (Divine Grace at pal2), and damage (Divine Might, but then you need some turning ability). This works best as an unarmored character, like an archer or a mounted character that uses Phantom Steed as a ridiculously fast mount for Spirited Charge.

IMHO, for an armored Eldritch Knight [melee class]/wizard would work best, and use the Still Spell feat to memorize some combat spells so you can cast those in armor.
Fastbond
07-08-03, 04:06 PM Yeah, I thought about that build as well. It looks sort of neat. I don't know if I wouldn't rather go for a level of archmage at the end instead of that fighter level; having mastery of shaping would be fairly valuable if you fire your arrows into where you have melee allies very often. At least, they might want you to take it.:P
Well, the main reason for the fighter level was him asking builds with few PrCs, and I thought that was enough. But if he likes it, it really improves both AA arrows and EK casting. You can also change it to Wizard 5 so you can get into Archmage 2. With the insane Dex modifier an AA should have, you can pick Arcane Reach and fire rays like a beholder! :behold:
JosephKell
07-08-03, 04:16 PM Pair EK with Archmage if you want... it is crazy, but you can do it.

I think Scrolls and Wands are enough for a Martial EK (it is pathetic that I have to put Martial in there... the EK IS A MARTIAL CLASS!!!).

Actually the only Evocation Attack Spell I can think of using is Forcelance... (stab people from 20 feet away for 5 rounds... I wonder if it can be used mounted! 2d8 damage base... times 3 for Spirited Charge... HA HA HA HA and the "strength modifier" for the spell is based on casting stuff... not the normal strength... so you could have a crazy spell casting charger that does like 6d8+21 damage.... ooooooooooooo)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dain[DK] 07-08-03, 07:42 AM	Now as far as I know the 3.5 eldritch knight from DMG is a rather powerful prestige class. Bonus feat at first level and full spellcasting AND BAB progression hereafter. Now the requirements are what - 3rd level arcane spellcasting, or something like that? So I was wondering: If you wanted to do a relatively conservative/simple build (preferably only one prestige class: The Eldritch Knight), what would that be? These are my thoughts: You will want to have both good fighting and spellcasting capabilities before entering the class. Because you want the fighting you will have to start out as a fighter, paladin or ranger - preferably the fighter, IMO, since I'm not too fond of paladin/sorcerors... or multiclassed paladins in any case. So right now I'm thinking a dwarven fighter 1/Wizard 5. What do you think?
Fastbond 07-08-03, 08:35 AM	Well, a favourite of mine is: Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/EK 9/Sacred Exorcist 3 Staying just at 8th level spells, but overall a good build. But since you don't like them, we may try the preffix you posted. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10 From here, we have many options. These are the ones that come to mind (note that, while I add another PrCs, it seems fair 'cause you've maxed out EK levels): Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4 BAB +16, Wizard caster level 18+any Spell Power you pick. Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 2 Horrid Wilting arrows, anyone? The extra level of fighter is for getting the extra feat so you can easily meet AA requirements.
bitnine 07-08-03, 09:51 AM	Originally posted by Fastbond Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 2 Horrid Wilting arrows, anyone? The extra level of fighter is for getting the extra feat so you can easily meet AA requirements. Yeah, I thought about that build as well. It looks sort of neat. I don't know if I wouldn't rather go for a level of archmage at the end instead of that fighter level; having mastery of shaping would be fairly valuable if you fire your arrows into where you have melee allies very often. At least, they might want you to take it. :P
JosephKell 07-08-03, 11:48 AM	Sorcerer would be more powerful and effective than Wizard. To BEST take advantage of the EK's martial prowess you need to basicly buff! (Not that I wouldn't take one or two attack spells... nah just take Color Spray and Burning hands, Ray of Enfeeblement...!) Buffs and Counter-Buffs! Illusion: Defensive Necromancy: Enemy Weakening Abjuration: Send off and countering Conjuration: Bring a friend to the "party," Wall of Stone for zone control Evocation: Only fireshield, Firewall, and Wall of Force... EK seems to be meant more for Counterspellers than Mages. Note that Counterspellers are Martial Mages that use magic more for counterspelling and slaying mages
Dain[DK] 07-08-03, 12:16 PM	Sorcerer would be more powerful and effective than Wizard. Why is that? Do you mean because it multiclasses well with paladin? Because if you don't it's just a matter of opinion. Why wouldn't the wizard be just as powerful? And by the way - I like wizards better in multiclass builds where you lose caster levels. If you go multiclass sorceror, the delayed spell casting levels hurt even more, I think.
JosephKell 07-08-03, 12:21 PM	Originally posted by Dain[DK] Why is that? Do you mean because it multiclasses well with paladin? Because if you don't it's just a matter of opinion. Why wouldn't the wizard be just as powerful? And by the way - I like wizards better in multiclass builds where you lose caster levels. If you go multiclass sorceror, the delayed spell casting levels hurt even more, I think. What spells do you miss? 9th level? The only 9th level spell a Counterspell Sorcerer needs really is Mordikainin's Disjunction. I was in a Mage Duel (my min/maxed Wizard/Incantrix of 13th level verses an un-min/maxed... he took Quicken Spell... Sorcerer 11, +2 LA race) and it was a Draw... I blinded him and he ran out of Dispel Magics to try and undo it! If I was a Sorcerer I would've toasted him, but I had to prepare all my defense spells. But it is a matter of opinion. Wizards work well when they know what they need, Sorcerers work better the rest the time. in 3.5 you level up spells right... I wonder if Knock levels up into Disintigrate http://www.geocities.com/aielmanspear/diablokingt.txt
Funny Slaughter 07-08-03, 01:36 PM	he took Quicken Spell... Sorcerer 11 you mean he really casted a spell like 4 levels higher only to get it as a fullround? weird. sorcerers and metamagic... gs Funny
bitnine 07-08-03, 01:46 PM	Actually, now that I think about it, going sorceror/ek/archmage might not be too bad. go ahead and take the spell like ability of the archmage at the end of the class and have the ability to use quickened true strikes 8x/day by sacrificing two 8th level slots. Indeed, a little harsh on the ol' 8th level spell slots, but using the spell-like arcana to get some decent dependable sorceror quickens isn't a bad thing. I'd still take arcane prep for other uses, but true strike is something you may want to use a lot (particularly if you go melee/power attack. Of course, this comes in sort of late, so it's not without its disadvantages. Eh, I need to think for a bit, perhaps there are some more optimal spells to take.
JosephKell 07-08-03, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter you mean he really casted a spell like 4 levels higher only to get it as a fullround? weird. sorcerers and metamagic... gs Funny He never used it... but he used a feat on it! he was a Half-Fiend Elf Sorcerer 11! As I ran out of Spells, I was left with 2 Dimensional Door spells! So I did something crazy... I DD'ed above him (he can fly naturally) and grappled him, effectively knocking him from the sky! His Fire Immunity made my Fireballs nothing... But back to my point: EK is like an any race version of Bladesinger! Look at the Bladesinger spell list! That is practically all an EK needs (not sure if Dispel Magic is on that list...)! Not that Summon Monster wouldn't help! But a Bard/EK could be really powerful! Spontaneous Heal Spells! Mithral Buckler, Longsword, Shield Spell, Mage Armor (all of these stack in 3.5)... and you have a defense of 19 + Dex! If I can make a Counterspeller with 6th level spells, I can take on a Mage! An Eldritch Knight HAS the BAB, so use it!
Borin 07-08-03, 02:42 PM	I think paladin/sorcerer, possibly with sacred exorcist, is great. You can use your charisma for spells, saves (Divine Grace at pal2), and damage (Divine Might, but then you need some turning ability). This works best as an unarmored character, like an archer or a mounted character that uses Phantom Steed as a ridiculously fast mount for Spirited Charge. IMHO, for an armored Eldritch Knight [melee class]/wizard would work best, and use the Still Spell feat to memorize some combat spells so you can cast those in armor.
Fastbond 07-08-03, 04:06 PM	Yeah, I thought about that build as well. It looks sort of neat. I don't know if I wouldn't rather go for a level of archmage at the end instead of that fighter level; having mastery of shaping would be fairly valuable if you fire your arrows into where you have melee allies very often. At least, they might want you to take it.:P Well, the main reason for the fighter level was him asking builds with few PrCs, and I thought that was enough. But if he likes it, it really improves both AA arrows and EK casting. You can also change it to Wizard 5 so you can get into Archmage 2. With the insane Dex modifier an AA should have, you can pick Arcane Reach and fire rays like a beholder! :behold:
JosephKell 07-08-03, 04:16 PM	Pair EK with Archmage if you want... it is crazy, but you can do it. I think Scrolls and Wands are enough for a Martial EK (it is pathetic that I have to put Martial in there... the EK IS A MARTIAL CLASS!!!). Actually the only Evocation Attack Spell I can think of using is Forcelance... (stab people from 20 feet away for 5 rounds... I wonder if it can be used mounted! 2d8 damage base... times 3 for Spirited Charge... HA HA HA HA and the "strength modifier" for the spell is based on casting stuff... not the normal strength... so you could have a crazy spell casting charger that does like 6d8+21 damage.... ooooooooooooo)