Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KalEEna 09-19-03, 03:47 PM	Hello everyone...I am a new D & D player, and have decided to build a Sorceress. I expect my group to be playing for a while, and I have no intention to start another character. So, I would like some help to optimize my sorceress build. Let me post what I have currently: Level 3 Elven Sorceress Chaotic Good Alignment Str: 10 Dex: 15 (+2 Ability Modifier) Con: 11 Int: 14 (+2 Ability Modifier) Wis: 14 (+2 Ability Modifier) Cha: 12 (+1 Ability Modifier) HP: 10 AC: 12 (With modifiers added) Exp: 3200 Skills: 3 Ranks in Bluff 2 Ranks in Concentration 1 Rank in Diplomacy 1 Rank in Heal 5 Ranks in Knowledge Arcana 1 Rank in Listen 1 Rank in Move Silently 1 Rank in Search 4 Ranks in Spellcraft Feats: Magical Aptitude Empower Magic Spells: Cantrips: (7 Per Day) Ray of Frost Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand Disrupt Undead Level 1: (6 Per Day) Shield Magic Missile Shocking Grasp Languages Known: Common Elven Draconic Sylvan I need advice on how to build this character to become very powerful in battle. Thanks!
JosephKell 09-19-03, 03:48 PM	Eshew Materials is better for the Sorcerer and Sorceress on the go than Empower Spell...
RaKhan 09-19-03, 04:06 PM	Ack! You only have a Cha of 12?!? It's bad enough that a sorceror is limited in the spells he/she knows, but limiting yourself to only 2nd level spells makes her survivability in the game and thus usefulness to the party almost completely nil. I honestly wouldn't start off with a Cha for a sorceress lower than 16. If you're using point-buy system, then reorder your points to have a Cha 16 to 18. If you rolled that badly, then I would suggest rerolling your stats again. You said you were a new player to D&D. You should start off with an effective character so that you don't get discouraged playing your first D&D campaign. I'd hate to see a person try to play a class with completely underpowered talent (natural stats), especially a D&D newbie. You'll end up thinking that sorcerors suck if you decided to play with those stats. Cha is the most important stat for a sorceror, bar none. Why you have Dex, Int, and Wis higher than your Cha is beyond me.
Ranthanas 09-19-03, 05:10 PM	What the hell are you playing at with that Cha? You want it to be your highest stat. (Swap your Cha and Wis is probably the easiest way, but if you have a pointbuy, take it higher) Feat: Spellcasting Prodigy would also help a lot. (FRCS, can only be taken at first level, adds +2 to your spellcasting stat for the purpose of spellcasting only). If you can't have this, take a metamagic feat (and dump magical aptitude- most such feats aren't worth it) You can't use Empower Spell until you hit level 6 (and it isn't worth it for quite a while after that), so Extend Spell is probably your best bet. As for Prestige Classes, if you are playing Core (PHB and DMG only), go for the Loremaster, but if you can persuade your DM to let you be an0 Incantrix (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010803b) past your DM, that's probably better (it requires a metamagic feat and the Iron Will feat, neither of which are wasted), although you have to be creative to get that Knowledge (The Planes) stat (the Versatile feat helps here- makes two cross class skills in class)
KalEEna 09-19-03, 05:29 PM	What the hell are you playing at with that Cha? Why you have Dex, Int, and Wis higher than your Cha is beyond me. I told you already, I am new. Thanks for making me want to post here again with other questions I have btw, knowing I'm going to get chewed for something I don't even know is always a comforting thought.... All I was told was that Charisma is how well you look, and how much more likely people are to believe you and stuff like that. No one ever told me it that it enables you to cast more spells per day etc. Someone explain pointbuy? Also, what the hell is FRCS? My group tells me I get level 2 spells next level...so that's why they suggested I get empower magic at level three so I can cast empowered magic missiles... So I should just scrap this char for a new one?
rilem 09-19-03, 05:49 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I told you already, I am new. Thanks for making me want to post here again with other questions I have btw, knowing I'm going to get chewed for something I don't even know is always a comforting thought.... All I was told was that Charisma is how well you look, and how much more likely people are to believe you and stuff like that. So I should just scrap this char for a new one? Criticism is pretty much par for the course on this board; I wouldn't sweat it. You probably should look at The Build FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46947). It provides a lot of basic information and provides links to other information on sorceror spell selection. Also read the regular Optimization FAQ. Judging by some of your misconceptions (which seem to be shared by your group) you should also read the Player's Handbook or the System Reference Document (http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=srd35). This isn't an insult; many new players only scan a few pages of the book, or don't even read it at all and rely on other people to inform them. This is a mistake. D&D is a game that rewards people who read and learn the rules. But here's an even more basic primer: Every spellcasting class has a key attribute that affects their spells, how many bonus spells they get per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. For Wizards, it's Intelligence; for Clerics and Druids, Wisdom and for Bards and Sorcerors it's Charisma. That ability score should be among your highest. You should also have a higher constitution; hit points will always be your weak point, and you want to minimize that. The reason empower doesn't help you right now is because an empowered spell takes up a spell slot TWO levels higher than normal, not one. You can't cast empowered magic missiles until Level 6. Point Buy is a way of distributing ability scores besides rolling dice (eliminates randomness). If you don't know what it means, your group probably doesn't use it and so you don't need to worry about it. FRCS refers to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. You don't need to scrap the character, but you do need to do some homework to make sure your PC is a viable one.
Enki 09-19-03, 06:07 PM	You also want a minimum of 15 in your charisma stat and apply every 4th level ability point bonus to charisma if you want access to ninth level spells as a sorceress at level 18. In order to cast high level spells you need the equivalent charisma. To cast 1st level spells you need a natural CHA of 11, to cast a 3rd level spell CHA 13 is needed, 5th = CHA 15, 7th= CHA 17, 9nth= CHA 19. The following skills: 1 Rank in Listen 1 Rank in Move Silently 1 Rank in Search are relatively useless as you'll never have a high enough modifier to justify having ranks in these skills, they can also be used without training. You should up your ranks in concentration and spellcraft as they are the bread and butter of caster builds.
rilem 09-19-03, 06:14 PM	Yeah, that too. I meant to mention the minimum-spell-level thing, though it doesn't seem like the PC has a 15 in any ability, unless you can change them at this point. I wouldn't worry about not getting 9th level spells at this point, however. Frankly, you might not live that long, and you also might come across a way to boost your score permanently by an extra point or so by then (a wish from another character, a tome of leadership, etc.)
Archmage Evender 09-19-03, 06:31 PM	Welcome to the optimization board. The other members dont mean to be critical, they are just a little grouchy. Dont scrap the char. It has potential. If you want to optimization your char i would: (1)put your highest stat on cha(being the ability sorce that determines your spell casting power). So put the 15 on it. (2)if you have access to the Forgotten Realms(is a campaign setting, on this board we use FRCS for short, begging the lazy people we are) Races of Faerun book. I would take the star elf for the +2 to cha. (3)when you go up to 4th i would put the stat adj on cha(and would put the ones at higher levels too). (4)i seggest you should change your stats to: STR 10 DEX 16(14 if you are playing a star elf) CON 11 INT 14 WIS 13 CHA 15(17 if you are playing the star elf, +2 if you have spell casing prodgy for FRCS). (5) as the other board members stated taking metamagic feats for a sorc is not so good because it takes a full found. And so spell focus, spell casting prodigy(if you FRCS book) or eshew materials Where is the magical aptititude feat? Your spell selection looks very good. with your skills you would want to max out in spellcarft and concentration With any spellcaster you have a base stat that dertimines bonus spells, the dificulty of your spell (DCs for short). bards use cha clerics use wisdom druids use wisdom rangers use wisdom paladins use wisdom sorcerers use cha wizards use int so if you played a 3rd level sor with 14 or 15 cha you would have DCs of 12( because its 10+your cha mod, and so 10 + 2 =12), and you get bonus spells because of your high ability score, 12 gives you a bonus 1st, 14 gives you a bonus 1st+2nd and so on...................................... ............ For a spell caster cha also determineswhat level of spells you can cast, and so you want it as high as it can be. To work out what level spells you can cast you subtract 10 from your spellcasting sats and that = the level you can cast e.g. if you have 15 cha you can cast 5th level spells at the moment(but it will increase as you cha increase from you putting your stat adj on it, that is if you do so) I hope i have solved any problems you had and hope you enjoy playing your sor :D Edit: sorry as i was typing out this message others had put in more threads and so info in some of our post are the same :D
Jindl 09-19-03, 06:35 PM	Hey! In my opinion, the sorceror more than any other spellcasting class, depends on three main things: ability scores feat selection and most importantly, spell selection For ability scores, you should put the highest into Charisma. This will make you an all around better spellcaster. Since sorcerors suffer from d4 hit dice, I suggest that you put your next best score into Constitution. A 14 in Constitution will not only give you 50% more hit points on average, but it helps with your fortitude saving throws (which sorcerors are bad at) and with the concentration skill, which you will need to cast spells when you are in combat. Dexterity and Wisdom are both good choices for your other good stats. Put your worst score in Str, and the next lowest in Int. BTW: I would suggest switching away from elf, as the penalty to con will hurt your hps (and as I already said, Con is more important than Dex). Perhaps a gnome??? For feat selection, I would suggest Spell Focus. It helps make your spells from a certain school harder to resist. Good schools to pair with that are illusion, evocation, and necromancy. Personally, I like illusion the best for a sorceror, due to the versatility of illusion spells. Other good feats are spell penetration (helps you overcome foes with spell resistance) and metamagic feats like silent spell and still spell. Stay away from item creation feats, as you will never know enough different spells to make these feats worthwile. For Spell selection, go versatile. At 0th level - make sure you get detect magic, read magic, and either ray of frost or acid splash. The rest is just gravy. At 1st level - magic missle rocks! Pick one offensive spell (see magic missle rocks!), one defensive spell (I like shield), and one multi purpose spell (expeditious retreat, enlarge person, reduce person, and charm person are all good choices). At 2nd level - follow the same guidelines of one offensive, one defensive, and one multipurpose... good choices are scorching ray, mirror image, and resist energy. Remember, a sorceror can only know a few spells. So pick wisely. Aim for versatility, you only need 1 combat spell per level. Sometimes, you may not even want a combat spell at all for that level (scorching ray is as good a combat spell as any of the 3rd level ones...so you could just take no attack spells of 3rd level...just get fly, dispel magic, major image and greater magic weapon.) As for skills, better to have a few skills maxxed out than many skills with one rank each. I especially suggest maxing out Concentration, Spellcraft, and knowledge (arcana) <<in that order>> Hope this helps!
Boondoggle 09-19-03, 07:10 PM	I mean no offense, but before you come here asking for help, you should at least read through the PHB, twice. Not knowing that sorcerer spellcasting depends on cha is just ignorance of the rules. I'm not expecting anyone to have all the rules memorized, but not knowing something as basic as this means most of the stuff on this board will be way over your head. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think you need to read through the PHB a couple times.
RaKhan 09-19-03, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I told you already, I am new. Thanks for making me want to post here again with other questions I have btw, knowing I'm going to get chewed for something I don't even know is always a comforting thought.... The tone of my statement wasn't meant to come down condescending to you. We assume that when people ask for help min/maxing their characters that they have read the section in the PHB (Players Handbook) about the class they want to play. The Spells section under sorcerors states that Cha controls the following things: 1) The DC (difficulty class) of your spells that you cast upon others to resist. The higher your Cha score, the harder it is for people, humanoids, monsters, creatures, objects, etc. to resist your spells. 2) The number of bonus spell slots you have per day per level. The higher your Cha score, the more spells you can cast per day. 3) It also determines the highest level of spells you can cast. A Cha of 12 will only allow you to cast up to and including 2nd level spells. A Cha of 19 will allow you to cast up to your full pre-epic-level capacity of 9th level spells. All I was told was that Charisma is how well you look, and how much more likely people are to believe you and stuff like that. No one ever told me it that it enables you to cast more spells per day etc. Cha can indeed determine how well you look, but it also goes much further than that. You could possibly look hideous, but still have a high Cha score because of your disturbingly magnetic personality. Your power of presense (i.e. magnetic personality) is essentially what describes the Cha stat. Someone explain pointbuy? The pointbuy system allows the DM to make sure everybody has the same total number of stat points for each character, thus giving the semblance of fairness within the party of characters. How it works is that you start off each stat at 8. Then dependent upon what pointbuy system the DM allows, those additional points allow you to increase those stats exactly how you want them. For instance, if the DM allowed you to create a character with a 40-point buy, then you have 40 points to spend on each stat, increasing each of them above 8 as you see fit. If I were to have a sorceror with a 40-point buy, then I would assign the follow stats: Str 8 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 18 As a sorceror, you should not be going into melee that much at all. That is why you shouldn't really bother increasing your Str. Dex helps you react quicker in combat. This at lower levels can spell the difference between life and death. It also helps with ranged touch attacks that might be required as part of spells that use a ray effect. Having Con at 14 is a good bonus so that it helps with your Concentration skill, your Fortitude save (which will suck as a arcane caster, so every little bit helps), and your total HPs. Having an Int of 16 helps you get 5 class skills (2 base skill points for sorceror class + 3 from Int mod from Int 16)maximized every level that you advance. Having a decent Wis score helps avoid Scry spells, resistances of enchantment and illusion schools (Will saves), and helps with some untrained cross-class skills such as Listen, Spot, and Sense Motive so that it makes it harder for people to get the jump on you. Also, what the hell is FRCS? FRCS stands for Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Some people call it the "Broken Realms" for all the bogusly munchkin good-aligned NPC characters (namely the Chosen of Mystra) for having powers that exceed many high-powered PrCs (Prestige Classes). Some people even have problems with some of the PrCs and feats in the FRCS handbook because they think they're too powerful. I can assure you that some of the feats in there make sense in almost any campaign setting regardless that you may not play in the Forgotten Realms (such as Education, Cosmopolitan, Spellcasting Prodigy, etc.). My group tells me I get level 2 spells next level...so that's why they suggested I get empower magic at level three so I can cast empowered magic missiles... Getting the Empower Spell feat that early is almost pointless. You can't cast an empowered 1st level spell until you're 6th level anyway as a sorceror since it require the spell to be cast from a spell slot 2 levels higher than just the regular spell. Sorcerors don't get 3rd level spells until 6th level. By the time you're 6th level, you'll be able to shoot 3 magic missiles with each casting of Magic Missile. Having that empowered would cause your damage to increase from 3d4 + 3 to (3d4 + 3) * 1.5. It can be debatable if that's better than a Fireball (a 3rd level spell) at 6th level doing 6d6 to a whole circular area with a 40 ft. diameter. Fireball has a chance to hit all creatures within that area for the same 6d6 to each of them as opposed to splitting up your magic missiles to attack 3 individuals for (1d4 + 1) * 1.5 each. Each scenario will determine which attacks are best used against your opponents. Fireballs allow the targets to make a Reflex save for half damage while Magic Missiles do not allow the targets a save at all. So I should just scrap this char for a new one? No, none of us have said that. Just move the stat values around (pre-racial modifier stats, that is). Definitely get your Cha as high as you can (at least 16 like I said earlier, but as another poster suggested, you could get by starting off with a Cha of 15).
Ranthanas 09-19-03, 08:35 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I told you already, I am new. Thanks for making me want to post here again with other questions I have btw, knowing I'm going to get chewed for something I don't even know is always a comforting thought.... All I was told was that Charisma is how well you look, and how much more likely people are to believe you and stuff like that. No one ever told me it that it enables you to cast more spells per day etc. Someone explain pointbuy? Also, what the hell is FRCS? My group tells me I get level 2 spells next level...so that's why they suggested I get empower magic at level three so I can cast empowered magic missiles... So I should just scrap this char for a new one? Sorry, this is one of the more blunt and more high powered boards on the site. When I want answers to tough questions I tend to come here (and tweak the question to fit the board). If it's a basic question, I'd go to the PHB boards. This board is a little elitist and I think I'm not the only one who both expects that here and wants to keep it that way. As for scrapping the character, don't. It has potential, and you will learn far more about how to play if you haven't designed your character amazingly, and so have to work to be effective than you will if you have it designed for you and can barge straight through everything. On the other hand, if you are a sorceror, Charisma should be your best stat.
LordShade 09-19-03, 09:44 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I told you already, I am new. Thanks for making me want to post here again with other questions I have btw, knowing I'm going to get chewed for something I don't even know is always a comforting thought.... So I should just scrap this char for a new one? Kaleena, Don't get discouraged. :) They are just trying to help - it's just that many of the posters are... shocked... when they see a stat distribution like that because it doesn't make sense to us. It's not your fault, because as you said, you are new. Welcome to the minmax board - we'll try to help set you straight. One cardinal rule you should remember for spellcasters: in almost all cases, you should get the highest possible stat in your primary spellcasting characteristic. This is intelligence for wizards, wisdom for clerics and druids, and charisma for sorcerers. For a sorcerer, generally wisdom and strength are your dump stats. Try to get decent scores in Dex and Con (they will improve your defense and survivability) and Intelligence (if you want a lot of skill points, or if you need to qualify for a PrC that requires a lot of skills), otherwise Intelligence can be a dump stat also. But remember: as a spellcaster, your core competency is obviously spellcasting. You want to be as good at it as humanly possible. Some things to ask your DM: 1. Can you be a Star Elf? It is an elven subrace detailed in Unapproachable East; it gets +2 Cha, -2 Con (good for you because it increases charisma, which is more valuable than Dexterity to you). 2. Can you be magic-blooded? It is a template in one of the issues of Dragon magazine. It changes favored class to sorcerer and gives +2 Cha, -2 Wis. 3. Can you pick the Spellcasting Prodigy feat from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting? Taken at level 1, this feat increases your primary casting stat by 2. 4. Most importantly, what books do you have access to? A question that will help us: Do you see your character as more of a blow-em-to-bits battlemage, or a subtle and cunning enchantress? Or a scholarly researcher? Or do you see your sorcerer as more of an up-front, sword swinging, spell slinging adventurer? Different prestige classes emphasize different approaches to magic.
Boondoggle 09-19-03, 09:54 PM	Wow, LordShades plesant and helpful post makes me feel like a :censored:
KalEEna 09-19-03, 10:55 PM	Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. My group probably wont let me switch my stats and race and everything, so I'll have to remake my character. Better now at level three than down the road at a higher level anyway. So I figure that it should go something like this: Priority of stats: Cha Con Int Dex Wis Str Priority of Skills: Spellcraft Concentration Knowledge Arcana Spells: 0: Detect Magic Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand 1: Shield Magic Missile Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy (If I can get it, I don't have the book though) Spell Focus Spell Penetration Silent Spell Still Spell How does this look? Thanks again.
goblinhero 09-20-03, 12:08 AM	Originally posted by KalEEna 1: Shield Magic Missile How does this look? Thanks again. concerning spell selection, I suggest taking Sleep over Magic Missile. at lower levels this spell r0xz0rs
LordShade 09-20-03, 05:43 AM	If your DM allows Spellcasting Prodigy, be sure to ask about magic blooded and Star Elf. All 3 combined represent a potential +6 to your charisma score. edit - if you have Savage Species, consider using Sylph as your race. (since you are already playing a female elf, sylph is not that far a stretch)
JosephKell 09-20-03, 04:13 PM	Priority Stats should be more like this: Cha Con Dex Int Wis Str Dex affects Ranged Touch Attacks... important for some of the new uber Rays...
KalEEna 09-20-03, 08:45 PM	Ok, If I get the spell penetration feat...When I cast magic missile at level 3 Sorceress, does it shoot 3 Missiles, because level 3+2 from the feat? Or like in shocking grasp when I roll a D6 for each caster level I have so 5D6? If this is not the case, then how does spell pentration help me exactly?
IceFractal 09-20-03, 08:57 PM	Spell penetration doesn't actually increase caster level, it just makes it easier to penetrate Spell Resistance, which is a special quality some creatures have. So it would not effect the number of missiles from magic missile, it would just make it easier to magic missile a foe with spell resistance.
mellowship 09-21-03, 05:26 AM	Originally posted by KalEEna Spells: 0: Detect Magic Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand As a sorcerer, you don't really need Read Magic. I'd switch that for Prestidigitation, which is amazingly versatile. 1: Shield Magic Missile Magic Missile isn't very effective at 1st level, since you only get one missile per casting. Sleep or Color Spray are the killer spells to have at 1st level. You can take Magic Missile when you reach 3rd level. Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy (If I can get it, I don't have the book though) Spell Focus Spell Penetration Silent Spell Still Spell Don't forget Eschew Materials. At higher levels, Heighten Spell is a good feat. By itself, it raises your save DCs and helps get past Globes of Invulnerability. Combined with Improved Counterspell, it makes you the ultimate counterspeller.
Jindl 09-21-03, 10:47 AM	KalEEna, I disagree with most of what mellowship said. Read magic is a must if you want to use scrolls. Using scrolls is a great way to improve a sorceror's versatility. Prestidigitation is good also. You should probably pick it up as you learn new cantrips. Color spray is good, but you have to be within 15 feet, which is very bad when you are 3rd level and have 10 hps. It also could affect your allies who happen to also be within the 15 ft cone (probably keeping your enemies from reaching you.) Sleep is good but as soon as your enemies become to high of hit dice then you need to trade it out. Why not try true strike/longbow. You are an elf after all. And true strike remains a good spell throughout your career. A sorceror gets only 7 feats. Don't waste one on eschew materials. Instead, get a belt and a pouch, put your components in the pouch, and learn the feat spell focus (evocation, illusion, or necromancy). You'll be a better sorceror for it. Again, a sorceror gets only 7 feats. Don't waste 2 of them on heighten spell/improved counterspell. First, the combo doesn't work in 3.5 because heighten takes a full round action which can't be done off of a readied action (you have to ready to counterspell). Besides, feats like empower spell and spell penetration/greater spell penetration, will see much more use than any technique for counterspelling. And you can (and should) have dispel magic/ greater dispel magic. Use them when you need to counterspell. Or ready an attack spell to break their concentration (this not only "counters" the spell, but deals damage as well) As for globes of invulnerability, you don't need heighten spell. You're a sorceror! Cast a higher level spell. If you don't have any, try the true strike/longbow combo again. Or summon a monster (I like summon swarm-bats for this one...that will get your enemies to move out of the globe.) 7 feats is not many. Wizards get 11 !! That's why sorcerors have to be more careful in the feat selection. Focus on things that make your spells work better. Spell focus, spell penetration, spellcasting prodigy, empower spell. These things are vital. Heighten spell, improved counterspell, eschew material are all fluff. Don't take them. As far as your stat and skill priority lists, they look pretty good. I would go: Cha ... for spellcasting (duh) Con ... fort saves, a 14 will get you 50% more hit points! Dex ... ref saves, initiative, ranged attacks (touch/longbow) Wis ... will saves, spot/listen (could be good with elf + familiar) Int ... a 10 is fine! 2 skill points / level is plenty. Str ... dump stat. really is of no use to you. With your 2 skill points / level: Max out concentration Evenly split the rest between knowlege arcana and spellcraft. When knowledge arcana gets 5 ranks, put everything else into spellcraft.
KalEEna 09-21-03, 11:08 PM	Here is an update on my current character status: Level 5 Sorceress Star Elf Stats: Str: 11 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 12 Cha: 18 HP: 20 AC: 12 Skills: Bluff: 5 Concentration: 8 Diplomacy: 3 Knowledge Arcana: 5 Spellcraft: 8 Spells: 0: 6 Per day Detect Magic Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand Prestidigitation What other cantrips do I need/should I get next? 1: 6 Per day, +1 from Charisma, totaling 7 Shield Magic Missile Shocking Grasp ????????? I have an open slot, What should I learn? 2: 4 Per day, +1 from Charisma, totaling 5 Scorching Ray ????????? I'm thinking about shatter, glitterdust? Feats: Spell Penetration ????????? At a total loss for what feat to get next(I have an open slot for one). Should I get spell focus in Evoc? I want to become quite the battlemage, so what should I focus on? I was unable to get spellcasting prodigy :( What are some nifty tricks I can do with Prestidigitation, I haven't really seen a need to use it once yet :( Thanks everyone for their help!
Skyrocket 09-22-03, 01:19 AM	Don`t forget your skills. Pump UMD and buy a Wand of Fireball when you have the chance. Items can really help you out too. Rod of Splendor is a bit of an investment, but a +4 bonus to Cha is pretty nice. Gloves of Dex and bracers of armour are affordable and very useful in a tight spot. A defensive and offensive magic rings are all a good idea.
JosephKell 09-22-03, 02:02 AM	Originally posted by Skyrocket Don`t forget your skills. Pump UMD and buy a Wand of Fireball when you have the chance. Items can really help you out too. Rod of Splendor is a bit of an investment, but a +4 bonus to Cha is pretty nice. Gloves of Dex and bracers of armour are affordable and very useful in a tight spot. A defensive and offensive magic rings are all a good idea. Sorcerers don't need Use Magic Device to use arcane wands... They just need the spell to be known to use a Staff...
mellowship 09-22-03, 09:23 AM	Originally posted by KalEEna Here is an update on my current character status: Level 5 Sorceress Star Elf Stats: Str: 11 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 12 Cha: 18 HP: 20 AC: 12 Skills: Bluff: 5 Concentration: 8 Diplomacy: 3 Knowledge Arcana: 5 Spellcraft: 8 This doesn't add up. As an elven sorceress with a +1 Int mod, you have a total of 24 skill points. 8 ranks of Concentration and Spellcraft costs 16 points, leaving 8 to spend on other skills. If you put 5 into Knowledge (arcana), you could put 3 into Bluff. Diplomacy is not a class skill for sorcerers, so that costs double. Spells: 0: 6 Per day Detect Magic Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand Prestidigitation What other cantrips do I need/should I get next? Message. 1: 6 Per day, +1 from Charisma, totaling 7 Shield Magic Missile Shocking Grasp ????????? I have an open slot, What should I learn? True Strike and Ray of Enfeeblement. You don't need Shocking Grasp when you have Magic Missile and Scorching Ray. 2: 4 Per day, +1 from Charisma, totaling 5 Scorching Ray ????????? I'm thinking about shatter, glitterdust? Glitterdust is nifty. Alter Self is good too. Turn yourself into a Troglodyte and gain +6 natural armor, or turn yourself into an aquatic elf and you can swim. If there are any winged humanoids in your gameworld, you can fly. Feats: Spell Penetration ????????? At a total loss for what feat to get next(I have an open slot for one). Should I get spell focus in Evoc? I want to become quite the battlemage, so what should I focus on? At low levels, you're generally not facing lots of monsters with spell resistance, so you don't really need Spell Penetration yet. Nor do you yet need Spell Focus (evocation), since so far none of your Evocations allow saving throws. When you get Fireball or Lightning Bolt, then Spell Focus will come in handy. That won't be till 6th level or later, though. For your 1st and 3rd level feats, you can't go wrong with Silent and Still Spell. I was unable to get spellcasting prodigy :( Bummer. What are some nifty tricks I can do with Prestidigitation, I haven't really seen a need to use it once yet :([/QUOTE] There's a section in Tome and Blood which lists some of the things you can do with it.
KalEEna 09-22-03, 08:28 PM	Ack! Int is 14, with +2 bonus, not 13. My mistake. Later on in the game, how am I supposed to hit anything with targeted magic (IE: Scorching Ray) Without true strike? In addition to this, when you roll a 20 with targeted magic, do I score a critical hit? If so, how does that work? The wording in the book was really confusing. So true strike it is, and alter self seems really cool. Those are the two I'm going to go with right now. Where is this tome and blood?
JosephKell 09-22-03, 08:45 PM	There is no Critical hit with spells. If you are using an actual attack to send the damage (like a Monk/Wizard using an Unarmed attack to deliver a Shocking Grasp, on a crit only the Monk Unarmed damage is multiplied). Or a Knight of the Thorn using Weapon Touch only multiplies the weapon damage.
mellowship 09-22-03, 09:46 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna Ack! Int is 14, with +2 bonus, not 13. My mistake. Ah, OK. That'll work then. Later on in the game, how am I supposed to hit anything with targeted magic (IE: Scorching Ray) Without true strike? It's actually not that hard, unless your opponent has a really high Dex. Since it's a ranged touch attack, armor and natural armor bonuses don't count towards your target's AC. Cat's Grace or Gloves of Dexterity are also good. In addition to this, when you roll a 20 with targeted magic, do I score a critical hit? If so, how does that work? The wording in the book was really confusing. Yes, you do get double damage if you crit with a spell that does damage. So if you roll 20 on those Scorching Rays, your enemies are going to be hurting bad. You can even take Improved Critical (ray), though you won't have the BAB for it till 16th level. Where it gets wonky is with spells that have effects other than damage. For instance, crits don't do anything for Ray of Enfeeblement or Touch of Idiocy, since those spells impose a penalty to ability scores (meaning, multiple castings don't stack) rather than doing ability damage. The one I'm really not sure about is Enervation. Do negative levels count as damage? So true strike it is, and alter self seems really cool. Those are the two I'm going to go with right now. Where is this tome and blood? Hrm. I'm not sure if they're printing it anymore, actually. It was designed for 3.0, and they're not bothering to update it for 3.5,
KalEEna 09-23-03, 04:25 PM	I'm now begining to look into Prestige Classes. I have found three that I could possibly go into: Incantrix Archmage Loremaster Out of these three, which would be the best choice? Keep in mind that I want to be a battlemage and have very powerful spells at my disposal. Of the three, I am leaning toward Incantrix. What is your opinion?
Ranthanas 09-23-03, 06:03 PM	The classic build for a battlemage would be Sorceror 6/Incantrix 10/Archmage 4. Go Incantrix (assuming you know how to get the second knowledge skill for the prerequisite- Versatile, Cosmopolitan or Educated feats help here)- your first campaign probably won't last long enough for Archmage to even be an option.
goblinhero 09-23-03, 07:10 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I'm now begining to look into Prestige Classes. I have found three that I could possibly go into: Incantrix Archmage Loremaster Out of these three, which would be the best choice? Keep in mind that I want to be a battlemage and have very powerful spells at my disposal. Of the three, I am leaning toward Incantrix. What is your opinion? imho, Archmage is a given but you won't attain this PrC til higher levels and taking this PrC will dictate 3 of your feats and as a Sorc, you do not get many. while Incantatrix is a good PrC, it requires you to specialize in Abjuration, which is darn near the opposite of being a battlemage, plus you're a Sorc, I think this PrC was made for the Wizzies due to all the metamagic goodies it has. personally, I'd go for a Guild Wizard of Waterdeep
JosephKell 09-23-03, 07:20 PM	Age of Mortals War Mage (5 level class)! Battle Magic, Arcane Aegis, Armored Spellcasting... AND 2 free metamagic feats All it requires: Eschew Materials, Combat Casting, and Weapon Focus. You CAN take Weapon Focus (Ray). As a Sorcerer, you can go War Mage by level 6. Arcane Aegis lets you add your Charisma modifier to an allies AC (one ally for every odd level of the class)
Otto the Bugbear 09-23-03, 10:08 PM	Well, the advice given is pretty good, so I'm going to go in a different direction. The links given above are priceless for new players, but there's one that's missing. Trollbill's dictonary of D&D terminology. It's actually both funny and informational for use while posting on these boards. Unfortunately, my bookmark is broken, so I can't post a link currently. Perhaps someone else can post a link. That way I can update my version as well. :cool: Cheers Otto :)
opticassault 09-25-03, 09:27 PM	I don't know if anyone answered this already, but you can crit with a spell if it uses a touch or ranged touch attack roll. Scorching Ray, for example, is a spell you can crit with. You can't crit with a magic missile, because it doesn't use an attack roll.
KalEEna 09-25-03, 10:09 PM	I have decided to go with Incantrix. What school of magic should I give up when I become one?
bromleylaerchenheim 09-26-03, 07:17 AM	Originally posted by goblinhero concerning spell selection, I suggest taking Sleep over Magic Missile. at lower levels this spell r0xz0rs I really find this a very interesting discussion but - to be honest - most of the answers are pure min/maxing hints exspecially this one. Sure, you guys are tight that sleep might be more powerfull than miag missle, as it is capable of knocking a few Orcs out instead of hurting only one. But does the spell selection has also something to do with roleplaying [COLOR=darkblue] ? I strongly beleive that the right selection of spells will determine the character of the spellcaster more than his selection of feats, skills or even attributes. Just for the records, why not making the sorceress a subtle jedi-type that is able to manipulate people to her needs? If this is an option, than propably charm person is a valid choice (one of the most powerfull spells of 1st level). When I was playing a 1st level wizard, I often use charms to get myself out of a mess or to just have fun while playing my role. An example: While approached by 2 angry guardsmen I charmed one of them to get me protected. (imagine Obi wan waving his hand: "you will not harm me") The charmed guard confinced the other one, not to attack but to flee. So just take this as an advice: choose your spells wisely as they will make up your character and as a sorceress you do not have many choices...
KalEEna 09-27-03, 08:47 PM	I really need some opinions for what Class of magic to give up...any input and reasoning would be very helpful. Thanks!
JosephKell 09-27-03, 09:14 PM	Okay, back to the beginning: Which books, you said you were new to D&D. So you probably only have the Player's Handbook, and your DM probably has the DMG. So that gives a few PrC's to work with. Do you have access to the 3.5 Dragonlance Books? They are 3.5, unlike Forgotten Realms, and I really do think you will be more than satisfied with the War Mage in it... (Actually... if you can mix Campaigns... perhaps you could go... Sorcerer 6/War Mage 5/War Wizard of Cormyr 5/Archmage 4... Free Widens with Battle Magic +3 is crazy powerful... Imagine if you will a 40 ft radius Fireball that does 10d6+30 damage... or a Horrid Wilting that did 20d8+60 damage with 4 times the area! Also Dragonlance has a great feat called Reserves of Strength (you can turn a fireball into 13d6!)
Otto the Bugbear 09-27-03, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by KalEEna I really need some opinions for what Class of magic to give up...any input and reasoning would be very helpful. Thanks! Personally, I'd give up Illusion and Necromancy. No real basis on those being weak, just a preference to this player. Cheers Otto :)
The Demonbinder of the Abyss 09-28-03, 10:28 AM	With Prestidigitation, you can: Change, Chill, Clean, Color, Dampen, Dirty, Dry, Firefinger, Flavour, Gather, Polish, Sketch, Stitch, Tie, Warm. You can also create balls of light which glow as a candle, create music from the ethereal plane and amuse small children. ;) In fact, it is the BEST cantrip and one of my favourites to use. Demonbinder :devil:
The Demonbinder of the Abyss 09-28-03, 10:36 AM	Also, I've noticed that your spells are entriely focused on combat, Are your adventures just dungeons? Or do you do town adventures too. Because there are heaps of utility spells out there which can be used for a variety of things and can also give your sorceress flavour. Also, drop the school which means you lose the least from the type of sorceress you want to be. If you wanted to be a teleporter, you wouldn't drop conjuration for example. Demonbinder :devil:
gkp79 09-29-03, 04:00 AM	Personally, I'd give up Illusion and Necromancy. No real basis on those being weak, just a preference to this player I have a 6th level sorc, planning to start in on Incantrix class next level, and those are the 2 schools Im choosing also. Just make sure you grab a couple of those useful low level illusion-school spells beforehand, if you ever want them!
KalEEna 10-02-03, 11:22 PM	I am seeking spell advice. My character is level six. Currently she knows: 0: Detect Magic Read Magic Acid Splash Mage Hand Prestidigitation Message Light 1: Shield Magic Missile Shocking Grasp True Strike 2: Scorching Ray Alter Self 3: Fireball For my next cantrip I don't know what to get. I was goign to pick up Arcane Mark just to mess around with for fun, because nothign else looked really useful. For my next level one spell I have chosen Ray of Enfeeblement and after that ?????? As for level 2, I don't really have a clue. Is there anything that I need before I get glitterdust or shatter? Level 3 I am thinking abuot getting Haste next. Followed by displacement. In addition, should I switch any spells out for other spells at level 8? Please comment on my choices of spels and future spells, and make any suggestions! Thanks!
Jindl 10-02-03, 11:36 PM	Next cantrip: dancing lights is a lot of fun! Next 1st level spell: How about switching shocking grasp out for Mage armor. At 6th and beyond, magic missle becomes your main 1st level attack spell. And your mage armor will last 6 hours and stack with your shield spell. I'd also suggest expeditious retreat, although ray of enfeeblement is good too. Next 2nd level spell: Either see invisibility or glitterdust. Your going to want both of these eventually. See invis is a lifesaver! And glitterdust is a good way for the rest of the party to see the invis guy, as well as maybe blinding your enemy. Next 3rd level spell: Fly. Fly. Fly. It is a must at low levels and even more a must at higher levels. Ultimate mobility allows you to stay out of melee. Gotta take fly next, I'd have taken it as my first 3rd level spell (and been a flying, scorching ray blaster mage.) Other than these suggestions, your spell list looks great! :)
kenderific 10-03-03, 09:37 AM	<off topic> Incantatrix says that a sorc/bard must still give up a (two) school(s) of magic to gain the benefits of specialization, am i wrong in reading this to mean that if they don't give up the schools, they aren't specialized? </off topic> Other than that, Kaleena, you seem to be doing pretty well. Are you the only arcane caster in the party? i'm playing in a FR game now with a drow sorc 6/harper mage 4/ soon-to-be Incantatrix X and there's a wizard in the party. He learned to teleport first, but my magic missles (ugh, i wish i had empower/maximize) have always dealt damage, every encounter. my first 3rd level spell was dispel magic, my next was lit bolt, and i just learned fly. Truth be told, i think any spell you take is useful, because even if you don't have a use all day, you can still take the slot and turn it into a magic missle. (or scorching ray, or anything of the same level or less) -Kenderific