Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caelic 01-02-04, 10:52 AM	Happy New Year! Well, an interesting challenge has been placed in front of me. We're starting a new campaign...and, as I have been accused of being set in my ways and always playing a spellcaster, I've agreed to have a go at playing a pure fighter-type. Now, here's the catch: the campaign is primarily set in a large, rambling city where weapons larger than daggers cannot be worn openly, except by members of the city guard. (We're playing a street gang living in the slums.) Therefore, I thought I'd go ahead and make the most vicious dagger-fighter I could come up with. Rogue levels aren't an impossibility, but I'd probably get some heckling for "Not making a pure fighter" if I took them, so I haven't so far. This is a straight 3.5 campaign. Stats were randomly rolled on 4d6, play 'em as they lay (no rearranging scores.) Mine came out as: STR: 14 INT: 18 (!) WIS: 7 DEX: 16 CON: 12 CHA: 9 Not a bad set of stats at all, and definitely ones I can work with. I really want to capitalize on the high Int, though, so that factors into my build. Anyway, here it is: Race: Human Swashbuckler 3 (PBS, Weapon Focus Dagger, Weapon Finesse Dagger) Ranger 2 (Track, TWF) Invisible Blade 5 (Precise Shot, Rapid Shot) Master Thrower 3 (Weapon Focus: Longbow, Weapon Trick: Doubletoss, Weapon Trick: Sneaky Shot) Order of the Bow Initiate 7 (GWF: Dagger, Sharpshooting, Improved TWF, Greater TWF) The build's still very rough. The major problem is that, in order to squeeze in all the feats needed, I'm giving up some stuff I REALLY want until very late in the game or never--like Combat Reflexes and the Spring Attack tree. Still, the build winds up with a +20 BAB--no griping about "Not a pure fighter!" He gets his Intelligence bonus to damage and AC, and can reliably get his 3d6 sneak attack bonus, thanks to his mastery of feinting. In ranged combat, he can dish out an additional 4d8, thanks to ranged precision...again, pretty much ensuring that he adds his sneak attack damage. Now, for the questions: 1. With Manyshot and similar feats, precision damage only applies to one of the shots, last I checked. Would this also apply to Double Shot, where I'm making two attack rolls and taking the normal penalty for TWF? Or would I get my full precision damage on both? 2. Am I splitting hairs by applying OOBI bonuses to thrown daggers? The class requires Bow focus, yes, but throughout the text, it specifies "Any ranged weapon with which you have focus." 3. What can I do to make the rough build better overall?
Snow Savant 01-02-04, 11:56 AM	Nice build, Caelic. My more "roguish" variation on your theme is: Rog3 / Ftr2 / GuildThief4 / InvisibleBlade5 / MasterThrower3 For 17 levels, you get a BAB of +15 and +7d6 SA. The build suffix can be supplemented with a variety of options. 1 level of Knight of the Middle Circle is mandatory as it has no feat pre-req.'s and the skills are easily met by a Ftr/Rog prefix. That 1 level gives you +1 BAB, the Blindfight feat (very good!), and Combat Sense +2 to offset your TWF -2 penalty. Although thematically, KotMC does not seem to mesh well with your street gang campaign. Another 2 levels of +2 BAB classes and you end up with a BAB of +18 and a nice rogue skill emphasis. *** Anyway, to best abuse that INT 18 of yours, you may wish to take this route mixing our 2 builds together: Rog3 / Swa3 / Ftr2 / GuildThief4 / InvisibleBlade5 / MasterThrower3 Final BAB of +18 and +7d6 SA. Your skills will be awesome! Be sure to use 1 of your 2 Guild Thief bonus feats as Weapon Finesse. I would recommend Weapon Focus: Dagger as the 2nd one, but Swashbuckler already gives you that. XO, Snow :) P.S. I see no reason why you can't apply OotBI bonuses to thrown daggers. If you so choose to take that route.
JoostBuijs 01-02-04, 12:43 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147294 It has a lot of information about the classes you combine, including a few builds. The build I would use is snows second build Rog3 / Swa3 / Ftr2 / GuildThief4 / InvisibleBlade5 / MasterThrower3 Though instead of guild thief 4, I would go for guild thief 2 and master thrower 5 (weak spot ability) or Guild thief 3 and Rogue 4.(-no XP penalty, since you are Human.) Might also be possible to add 1 PRC dip instead of the 4th guild thief level. (for example Shadowdancer, hide in plain sight owns :P) -why? in this build the 4th level of guild thief seems rather useless.
Lord Likk 01-02-04, 12:57 PM	1. can you use manyshot with thrown weapons? i think not. 2. sorry, but i haven't got the complete warrior. 3. push for an urban rgr variant that gets track based on gather information instead survival with your dm. i think the obi7 and the +20 b/a are basically unnecessary, especially considering how iffy the obi lvls may be with your dm.
Caelic 01-02-04, 01:36 PM	1. I'm not concerned with using Manyshot; I'm concerned with using the Master Thrower's Double Shot, which is explicitly for thrown weapons. I want to know if I can add my precision damage to both shots. (Since I get precision damage from three different sources, it's a fairly important question!) 2. Not a problem; not everyone does. $27 is a lot for a classbook. 3. Actually, I'm perfectly happy with Survival-based tracking. Remember, we're a dirt poor street gang to start off: Survival is actually going to be useful for me. Sure, I'll be foraging in garbage cans and alleys rather than forests and mountains, but food is food!