Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonsArt 09-21-04, 09:21 AM	Is there a good melee rogue build using v3.5 rules, including optional Unearthed Arcana information? I want to maintain decent skills, and still have some special abilities. So far, I have: Human Str 16 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 11 I took two flaws, allowing me to take: Dodge, Mobility and Combat Reflexes at 1st level. I just need to know what is next. 1st Rogue 1 - +1d6 sneak 2nd Swashbuckler 1 - Weapon Finese (not really needed) 3rd Rogue 2 - Evasion 4th Swashbuckler 2 5th Rogue 3 - +2d6 sneak 6th Swashbuckler 3 - Insightful Strike (INT to damage) 7th Rogue 4 - Uncanny Dodge 8th Shadowdancer 1 - Hide in Plain Sight 9th Dervish 1 - Movement Mastery, Slashing Blades 10th Shadowdancer 2 - Improved Evasion?, Improved Uncanny Dodge?, Darkvision So by 10th level, I'd have: +2d6 sneak Evasion, Improved Evasion Uncanny Dodge, Imp. Uncanny Dodge Hide in Plain Sight Insightful Strike Movement Mastery Slashing Blades Good skill points BAB = +7 FORT = +1 + 3 = +4 REF = +3 + 2 + 4 + 1 = +10 (Grace +1) WILL = +2 + 1 + 1 = +4 After that, I know I want to get another 2 levels in Dervish to get Spring Attack, extra dervish dance and fast movement, but then what? Levels in Invisible Blade? Adds 5 levels of invisible blade (provided I can get the prerequisites), would give me an additional +3d6 sneak with daggers, +5 AC, Feint Mastery and Bleeding Wound... plus +5 BAB, +1 FORT, +4 REFL, +1 WILL. That would bring my BAB (with the 2 extra levels in dervish), to +14. And then I could finish it up with levels of rogue for the skill points (especially UMD) and sneak attack damage. Somewhere in there, I COULD switch to guild rogue... I gain a feat or so, but loose UMD. Any other suggestions?
handforged 09-21-04, 05:51 PM	I have never read anywhere that gaining Evasion from two sources becomes Improved Evasion, like Uncanny Dodge becomes IUD. However, the rest of your build looks pretty good. Except if you are human and you take two flaws you should have four feats at level 1. Dervish 10 is pretty good. Invisible Blade 5 is pretty good as well. Neither of them max out your roguishness though. I would suggest finding the "Annoying Defensive Fighter" thread where there are some pretty good skill+tactical combat builds. You might also see if you can use the Rokugan Ninja available for free online as it has some nice combat abilities for this sort of fighting style. ~hf
Magnus029 09-21-04, 08:50 PM	The only class I have seen that says evasion becomes improved evasion is the halfling outrider PrC from complete warrior.
Karkul 09-22-04, 02:23 AM	Rogue 3/Swash 3/Invisible Blade 5/Disciple of Baalzebub 2/Assassin 7 +16 BAB This is my favorite rogue variant. With a good intelligence and charisma this character can lie his way out of anything (disciple adds Int mod and cha mod to bluff checks). Invisible blade allows you to make free action feints, and you have a 10d6 sneak attack to make them regret it. You get assassin spells all the way up to the highest level available (4th level, all INT based), you get your INT mod added to damage rolls, and with your high INT score (you better have a high INT score) and rogue classes, you'll have a ton of skill points to play with.
RealMad 09-22-04, 10:58 AM	Is there a good melee rogue build using v3.5 rules, including optional Unearthed Arcana information? Well, if you started already with a Rogue, you can't take any of the UA generic classes anymore. The human paragon is open though, but that doesn't really give you anything huge and isn't really that worth it unless you're a spellcaster. I'm currently using a UA Generic character with this progression so far. I didn't want to use a human but it doesn't hurt this build at all to do that. 1 Expert1 Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Dagger) 2 Warrior1 Point Blank Shot 3 Warrior2 Sneak Attack (+2d6), Uncanny Dodge (generic) 4 Warrior3 5 Warrior4 Expert Tactician 6 InvisBlade1 Weapon Spec (Dagger) 7 InvisBlade2 8 InvisBlade3 9 InvisBlade4 Improved Sneak (+3d6) 10 InvisBlade5 11 SpellCaster1 Turn Undead 12 SkullClanHunt1 TWF This is as far as I've gotten. I'm going to take another level of Skullclan to get the undead sneak attack and then I'll have to decide if I'm going to keep going down that route. This Fighter/Rogue has been very playable. Bluff works for a lot of things other than Feint. You can't go overboard on skills but you can max the ones that count. I'm thinking though of going maybe to Skullclan 3 to get a sneak die, then taking Master Thrower and then one more level of Expert for a bonus feat. One of the upcoming feats will definitely be Greater Sneak. So basically, the build will have +17 BAB, +13d6 of Sneak with a Dagger, +10d6 without and the ability to apply that damage to undead. I've done well already so I can't imagine that this build won't continue to do well, particularly once Master Thrower has been added.
DragonsArt 09-22-04, 12:20 PM	Rogue 3/Swash 3/Invisible Blade 5/Disciple of Baalzebub 2/Assassin 7 +16 BAB This is my favorite rogue variant. With a good intelligence and charisma this character can lie his way out of anything (disciple adds Int mod and cha mod to bluff checks). Invisible blade allows you to make free action feints, and you have a 10d6 sneak attack to make them regret it. You get assassin spells all the way up to the highest level available (4th level, all INT based), you get your INT mod added to damage rolls, and with your high INT score (you better have a high INT score) and rogue classes, you'll have a ton of skill points to play with. I'm GOOD. So I'm guessing last two prestige classes are out.
Qaetar 09-22-04, 12:41 PM	Master Thrower also grants Imp. Evasion in place of Evasion. Fighter 2/Rogue 5/Ninja 5/Invisible Blade 5/Swashbuckler 3 18 or 19 BAB (Don't recall IB), 9d6 SA, Int to Damage, Free Finesse, Feint as a Free Action, Fighter helps with the Feat Crunch, allowing for TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Int to Init, Poison use. Big problem is a TERRIBLE will save. (Qaetar)