Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MontyPhank 09-01-03, 07:42 PM	A local gaming store is running a Dungeon Delve challenge. Basically, groups of players will enter a "killer" dungeon to capture the Throne of Darkness. The first player to make it to the Throne wins. This encourages teamwork at the beginning, but paranoia at the end. Using the following rules, what character would you build for the game? Here are the rules:[list=1] Any Alignment. Any Race from the PHB. Any Class from PHB and DMG (3.5v). Note: All DMG PrC are allowed. 136,000 EXP per character. 100,000 Gold Pieces to spend on items from PHB or DMG. No Psionics. No Savage Species or MM. Maximum Hit Points for all levels! Attributes start at base 8 for each with an additional 40 points as desired. Additional points are a straight one-for-one purchase (e.g., an 18 Strength costs 10 points). Restricted items: Celestial Armor, Amulet of the Planes, Breastplate of Command, Life Drinker, Nine Life Stealer, and Sword of the Planes may not be purchased. Additional costs. All potions are market price plus 100 Gold Pieces. Scrolls are market price plus 250 Gold Pieces. Any Created Magic Item costs 10,000 more than the calculated cost. Additional notes: No precast spells (wishes, etc.). No items that require preparation before game (Tomes, Golem Manuals, etc.). No cohorts. The Improved Familiar feat (from the DMG) is allowed.[/list=1] If you are in or around Austin, Texas and want to participate in the event (September 5th), grab a flyer from Thor's Hammer. I'll follow this post with a couple of characters I've made for the event. Regards, Monty
MontyPhank 09-01-03, 10:11 PM	Mystic Theurges aren't new, but they can be fun to make. The treatment below gives a whopping 91 spells per day (278 levels of spells per day). The concept is a powerful caster (able to penetrate spell resistances with evocation spells), strong summoning and support spells, and a couple of twists. Mystic Theurge Human Cleric 3/Conjurer 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archmage 1 *HD (3d8)+(3d4)+(10d4)+(1d4)+68; hp 148 *Init +4 (+4 Dex); AC 19 (flatfooted 15, touch 14) *Base Atk +8; Ranged +12/+7 (1d10 19-20/x2, +1 heavy crossbow) *SA: turn undead 2/day at 3 level *SQ: mastery of shaping, spontaneous casting *Sv: Fort +15, Ref +13, Will +25 *Str 8, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 24, Wis 22, Cha 8 Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration (+4 caster level to overcome spell resistance), Improved Familiar (pseudodragon with 74 hit points), Spell Focus (conjuration, evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation). Possessions: robe of the archmagi (gray), headband of intellect +2, periapt of wisdom +4, +1 heavy crossbow of spell storing Cleric Spells Prepared (6/8/8/6/6/5/4/2); save DC 16 + spell level). Wizard Spells Prepared (5/7/7/7/6/5/5/4); save DC 17 + spell level, or 18 + spell level for Conjuration spells, or 19 + spell level for Evocation spells). The Archmage ability mastery of shaping allows him to drop fireballs and delayed blast fireballs at his feet without harming friends. Nasty touch spells (slay living, harm, etc.) can be delivered from pseudodragon familiar (along with sleep poison). The heavy crossbow can deliver a stored spell to its target (up to 3rd level). I chose Fharlanghn as a deity for the domains of Travel (for the Freedom of Movement ability, but only 3 rounds per day) and Luck (for the free reroll). Neither are really dependent on high cleric levels. Let me know what you think. I'm going to try a duelist next. Regards, Monty
Sensei Gith 09-01-03, 10:19 PM	Contingency 1/day Dimension door 1/day "When I see the Throne of Darkness, zap me there!" :D
MontyPhank 09-02-03, 12:41 AM	Yeah, I was tempted to just go straight Diviner and 'skip to the end'. Discern location, scrying, and a host of prying eyes to find the Throne (quickly followed by a greater teleport). Sit on the throne and win the game. I'm assuming the DM of this 'killer' dungeon will have considered this and created some annoying means of prevention. I can understand blocking 'skip to the end' spells in a campain where an adventure will only be used once. The DM has put a lot of effort into the game so preventing things like teleport, etherealness, locate object, scrying and such on the rare occassion is okay. The DM doesn't want you to skip to the end every time you play. (Even I remember the collapsed feeling when I confidently rolled my uber-villain's finger of death saving throw in front of my players; only to see a '1' come up. "I spent two hours on this guy," I thought. My players, of course, where dancing around the table.) I don't think that one-shot games should completely eliminate the effectiveness of these spells. I'm still tempted to show up with a ton of divination and travel spells and try to finish quickly. Regards, Monty
MontyPhank 09-02-03, 01:10 AM	Here's the duelist I promised. The requirements (BAB +6, Tumble 5, Perform 3, and a couple of feats) make it hard to qualify for Duelist. Although Precise Strike is pretty sweet. With a Flaming (or Icy or Shock) piercing weapon, a duelist is looking at 4d6 with each attack. Add Holy and you'll be borrowing dice! Duelist Monk 4/Fighter 3/Duelist 10 *HD 4d8+16 plus 3d10+12 plus 10d10+40; hp 230 *Init +16; Spd 40 ft.; AC 34, touch 28, flat-footed 21 *Base Atk +16; Full Atk +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (4d6 19-20/x2, +1 flaming siangham); Flurry of Blows +23/+23/+18/+13/+8 (4d6 19-20/x2, +1 flaming siangham) *SA acrobatic charge, precise strike +2d6 damage *SQ canny defense, elaborate parry, enhanced mobility, evasion, fast movement, grace, improved reaction +4, slow fall 20 ft., still mind *SV Fort +18, Ref +27, Will +17 *Str 8, Dex 26, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 8. Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Critical (Siangham), Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Siangham), Whirlwind Attack. Possessions: headband of intellect +2, periapt of wisdom +2, gauntlets of dexterity +4, +1 flaming siagham, bracers of armor +6, cloak of resistance +4 I didn't feel Strength was all that important after Weapon Finesse and focused on Dexterity (and Int/Wis for additional AC), but I'm beginning to regret it. I'll probably rework the stats to bring up the Str damage. With this buildout, Flurry of Blows and Fighting Defensively the Duelist's AC jumps to 46 with 5 attacks (+21/+21/+16/+12/+6) for 4d6 points of damage each. Up to 20d6 per round. Not too shabby. Any thoughts on tightening this one up? I'm thinking about doing an Arcane Trickster (sneak attacking with wands) or a Arcane Archer next. Regards, Monty
PhaedrusXY 09-02-03, 01:23 AM	This sounds like it begs for an Arcane Trickster to me. Wiz5/Rogue4/AT8 would be my choice, so you get Uncanny Dodge. You won't be the most powerful spellcaster, but you'll be a great dungeon crawler. As crazy as it might sound, a druid might be good too. The ability to wildshape into a bat and scout would be superb. Throw in Natural Spell and maybe some levels of Thamaturgist, and you can stay in bat form and summon a legion of allies to fight for you, while you cast spells and stay out of reach.
MontyPhank 09-02-03, 04:28 PM	PhaedrusXY, I agree. I've been working on a Arcane Trickster. Do you really think that the extra level of rogue is better? Rog4/Wiz5/AT8 > Rog3/Wiz5/AT9 ? It seems that the extra level of arcane spell casting is better than Uncanny Dodge. Regards, Monty
RabidWeasel 09-02-03, 04:48 PM	A druid could work wonders at the end: when the throne is in sight, wildshape into a cheetah and sprint :D
Feallmharaigh 09-02-03, 04:59 PM	If you can kill other players, become an assassin. Be a rogue/wizard type so you can cast invisibility or get an item that grants you to cast invisibility and death attack like it's nobody's business.
PhaedrusXY 09-02-03, 06:12 PM	Originally posted by MontyPhank PhaedrusXY, I agree. I've been working on a Arcane Trickster. Do you really think that the extra level of rogue is better? Rog4/Wiz5/AT8 > Rog3/Wiz5/AT9 ? It seems that the extra level of arcane spell casting is better than Uncanny Dodge. Regards, Monty It's certainly debateable. I'm a fan of Uncanny Dodge though, and I'm betting you'll need it in this type of setting with PvP an integral part of the competition. You could always go around with the 3.5 version of Darkness cast on you though, so you'll have concealment and rogues won't be able to sneak attack you. They got rid of Continual Darkness didn't they? That was a great spell...
MikeN 09-02-03, 08:22 PM	1rogue/5wizard/1guild thief/8arcane trickster gets you uncanny dodge as well (guild thief gets it at 2 and you can treat rogue levels as gt levels for purposes of uncanny dodge). For the higher-level spell access you give up essentially evasion, some skills, and a BAB or 2... Highly worthwhile in terms of power...
MontyPhank 09-02-03, 08:29 PM	MikeN, I'm assuming that Guild Thief is from a source other than the PHB and DMG, so it wouldn't be allowed in the Dungeon Delve. I'm glad that you dropped by this thread, I've been searching for the thread on your 3.5 Monk/Duelist build (still can't find it). Did you take a look at the Duelist I posted in this thread? What do you think? How would you improve it? Regards, Monty
MontyPhank 09-02-03, 09:48 PM	What do you guys think about this? Summoner Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 7 / Thaumaturgist 5 * around Int 24 and Wis 22 with gear * casts as a 11th level cleric (6th level spells) and a 14th level wizard (7th level spells). * has amazing summoning abilities * has a 12HD PERMANENT Planar Cohort Starting the game with a Ghaele or an Astral Deva henchman would be pretty amazing. I'm considering Sorcerer over Wizard. Thoughts? Regards, Monty
MikeN 09-02-03, 10:19 PM	Your duelist build looks OK to me with the exception of the 3 fighter levels. 2 or 4 levels in fighter is better than 3...the one gets you two extra feats (superior), and the other gets you access to specialization (a good thing for a little extra damage and to qualify for some PrC's). Since they nerfed the duelist like they did for 3.5 I don't use it too much -- it's really a weak sister to the bladesinger PrC now IMO. My old-style 3.0 Monk/Duelist design was pretty simple in essence: Human or Wood Elf Ranger1/Monk7/Duelist. You can then add levels of whatever PrC's take your fancy...Singh Rager for 4 levels so you could do lion's pounce (before savage species this was really the only way to do the combo with mantis leap, power lunge, acrobatic attack, etc. all going to the flurry of blows) and you cut off some levels of duelist or cheese your way if your DM allows you a level of Shiba Defender instead to add your Wis to hit/damage, etc... I designed a "crossover" duelist I was pretty proud of as well before the duelist nerf and weapon sizing issues made it problematic: Half-ogre Monk7/Shou Disciple5/Duelist. The idea is that if you're large-sized a spiked chain is a "one-handed piercing weapon" to you and therefore you can use a spiked chain and lots of the area-control goodness such as large and in charge along with the flurrying mantis-leap power lunge acrobatic attack damage you can get while flurrying with a spiked chain...
MontyPhank 09-07-03, 03:17 AM	The event came and went. All-in-all there were 25 players and we played from 9PM until 8AM the following morning. There's nothing quite like watching the sun come up while playing D&D in a shopping center. The character I created was a Summoner. Cleric3/Conjurer3/MysticTheurge6/Thaumaturge5. I had a Branali (Eldarin Outsider) as a Planar Cohort and summoned no end of augmented, grappling Celestial Polar Bears. Casting as a 9th-level cleric and a 14th-level conjurer was great. The extended summoning and contingent summoning was also very useful. Overall, I think it was the most well-rounded and very effective character at the event, although one exceptionally well-built Archmage gave me a run for the money. By focusing on summon, charm, and buffing, I was responsible for an amazing amount of damage. In particular, I charmed a 24-HD 12-headed hydra (which we buffed it with haste, greater magic weapon, protection from various energies, stoneskin, blur, etc.), which pretty much dominated the battlefield. Fast healing rocks. Although none survived the "killer" dungeon, my group "won". I haven't gamed all night since I was in college. You should definitely do that once a decade or so. If anyone wants to see the exact build I went with, just ask. Regards, Monty
LiXinjian 12-12-03, 11:04 AM	Any insight on that exceptionally well-built archmage (who gave you a run for your money)?
Matt Neuman 12-12-03, 03:00 PM	I'd go for a loner assassin. Someone who can systematically pick off the other players, with a high UMD to utilize whatever you take from them. Something like: Rgr 6/Rog 3/Asn 8