[3.5] Most effective use of Summon Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

[3.5] Most effective use of Summon Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Medwyn
09-02-03, 07:06 AM Which monsters (from the V to VII lists) do you use most often and why?
Willie the Duck
09-02-03, 12:01 PM actually from the !V list, but higher levels can summon multiple of them: Unicorns. They use their healing abilities on you or allies, then charge, and kick butt. Kinda fragile, but who cares when they're summoned.
LunarCaustic
09-02-03, 12:06 PM celestials: aura of menece, Damage reduction, good attack and damage, saves

Any Elemental or outsiders with an elemental subtype ( Xorn, Fire elemental):, good damage, good AC, immune to effects such as crits and sneak attack and some spells depending on the type
catharz
09-02-03, 03:26 PM 7: Half-fiend Huge Monsterous Scorpion!!! Muahahahaha!!!
Actually, thats only OK. What you really want is...
Summon Monster 9: Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Scorpion! OMG! Ahhh! Actually, that probably shoulden't be allowed. Maybe a Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Spider would be more balanced :behold:
(Psi)SeveredHead
09-02-03, 05:47 PM Originally posted by catharz
7: Half-fiend Huge Monsterous Scorpion!!! Muahahahaha!!!
Actually, thats only OK. What you really want is...
Summon Monster 9: Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Scorpion! OMG! Ahhh! Actually, that probably shoulden't be allowed. Maybe a Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Spider would be more balanced :behold:

I scent house rules. Probably good ones.

Ther'es little point of half-fiend vermin, though, since their Charisma-based save DCs will be way too low to be effective.
catharz
09-02-03, 06:16 PM Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
I scent house rules. Probably good ones.

Ther'es little point of half-fiend vermin, though, since their Charisma-based save DCs will be way too low to be effective.

Actually, its from Dragon. Let me summarize:
level:CR
1:<1
2:1
3:2
4:3
5:4-5
6:6-7
7:8-9
8:10-11
9:12-13.
It leaves in the clause that creatures with access to high-level spell-like abilities or lots of HD (Like elementals) are generally one level higher. I think the scorpion qualifies.

The DCs are based off either Wisdom of Charisma, and are therefore decent. Anyway, a caster level 20 horrid wilting is gonna hurt regardless. The best part is they get feats, maybe like quicken spell-like ability.
They also get resistances and flying, which can be surprisingly useful against, say, dragons
(Psi)SeveredHead
09-02-03, 06:53 PM Originally posted by catharz
Actually, its from Dragon. Let me summarize:
level:CR
1:<1
2:1
3:2
4:3
5:4-5
6:6-7
7:8-9
8:10-11
9:12-13.
It leaves in the clause that creatures with access to high-level spell-like abilities or lots of HD (Like elementals) are generally one level higher. I think the scorpion qualifies.

The DCs are based off either Wisdom of Charisma, and are therefore decent. Anyway, a caster level 20 horrid wilting is gonna hurt regardless. The best part is they get feats, maybe like quicken spell-like ability.
They also get resistances and flying, which can be surprisingly useful against, say, dragons

You need a Wisdom or Cha of 8 to use the spells, but the save DC is always based on Wisdom.
catharz
09-02-03, 07:05 PM H, I see what I think you mean. The DCs *are* always Charisma based. Damn. Ah well, most of the abilities are still worthwhile!
Zelc
09-02-03, 07:26 PM Summon Monster? It really depends on what you want to do. However, I don't recommend a Summon Monster spell below level 5, as the utility of such spells are minimal and the monsters aren't such great combatants, especially as time goes on.

I'd get either Summon Monster 5 or 6 for 1 or 1d3 (respectively) Hound Archons with their Aura of Menace, Aid, Continual Flame, Detect Evil, Message, an 11 point Smite Evil (3x/day), Aura of Courage, Remove Disease (2x/week), some buffs, and the kicker: 33 points of Lay on Hands. How's THAT for a swiss army knife? :D

With a Summon Monster 6, you can also summon a Bralani (eladrin), with Tongues (yay!), Blur, Charm Person, Wind Wall, and Cure Serious Wounds. Not as great as the Hound Archons, IMO.

Summon Monster 6 also enables the Janni. Change Size 2/day is good for buffing the fighters, and they can use Create Food and Water and Speak with Animals.

Level 7 and above, you get to summon some Huge Elementals. Druids have been slobbering over those ever since they got spontaneous summons, and probably for good reason.

Also noteworthy at level 7 is the Invisible Stalker. It can track with a +15 bonus (Spot and +2 from Survival).

Summoning an Avoral with the level 7 spell is also pretty good, as it gets Lay on Hands (equal to HP, probably 66), Speak with Animals, True Seeing, Fear Aura, Aid, Dispel Magic, Gust of Wind, Hold Person, Magic Circle Against Evil, and Empowered Magic Missiles. However, for purposes of healing, I'd summon 1d4+1 Hound Archons instead.

The level 7 spell can also summon a Djinni, with Create Food and Water, Create Wine, and Major Creation (vegetable matter is permanent). He can also turn into a whirlwind. Not bad for a portable food storage, although the level may be a bit prohibitive. Oh... and if DM is stupid/nice, he may allow you to have a chance at summoning Noble Djinn with their 3 Wishes.

Level 8 gets you 1d3 Huge elementals and Lillends. Lillends, IMO, aren't that great, although they could be used for the Bardic Music (as lvl 6 Bard) and Knock. Hallucinatory Terrain can be useful as well.

Now, I don't advise anyone using the Level 9 Summon Monster, as you gain Shapechange. Shapechange > Summon Monster, except you don't gain any Spell-like abilities (blah blah blah... big deal... Shapechange is still sooo much better). However, if you were to use it, you do get some pretty cool stuff.

Coatl: Casts as a level 9 sorcerer, helpful if you're missing a few schools from specializing and want some Level 0-4 utility spells. Also has psionics, though you may need a cooperative DM to implement actual psionics (from the Psionics Handbook). Also gets the spell Ethereal Jaunt.

Leonal: Lay on Hands (equal to HP, 114 average), Roar (Holy Word + 2d6), Speak with Animals, and a pretty swanky fighter.

If you want to pick up a Summon Monster spell, I highly recommend at least Level 5, and probably Level 7 at most. Also, I did not pick the above forms for their combat effectiveness. You may find that summoning a Celestial Animal may be better in the damage dealing department than the above. I also neglected to list evil summons. Remember, Your Mileage May Vary!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Medwyn 09-02-03, 07:06 AM	Which monsters (from the V to VII lists) do you use most often and why?
Willie the Duck 09-02-03, 12:01 PM	actually from the !V list, but higher levels can summon multiple of them: Unicorns. They use their healing abilities on you or allies, then charge, and kick butt. Kinda fragile, but who cares when they're summoned.
LunarCaustic 09-02-03, 12:06 PM	celestials: aura of menece, Damage reduction, good attack and damage, saves Any Elemental or outsiders with an elemental subtype ( Xorn, Fire elemental):, good damage, good AC, immune to effects such as crits and sneak attack and some spells depending on the type
catharz 09-02-03, 03:26 PM	7: Half-fiend Huge Monsterous Scorpion!!! Muahahahaha!!! Actually, thats only OK. What you really want is... Summon Monster 9: Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Scorpion! OMG! Ahhh! Actually, that probably shoulden't be allowed. Maybe a Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Spider would be more balanced :behold:
(Psi)SeveredHead 09-02-03, 05:47 PM	Originally posted by catharz 7: Half-fiend Huge Monsterous Scorpion!!! Muahahahaha!!! Actually, thats only OK. What you really want is... Summon Monster 9: Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Scorpion! OMG! Ahhh! Actually, that probably shoulden't be allowed. Maybe a Half-fiend Gargantuan Monsterous Spider would be more balanced :behold: I scent house rules. Probably good ones. Ther'es little point of half-fiend vermin, though, since their Charisma-based save DCs will be way too low to be effective.
catharz 09-02-03, 06:16 PM	Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead I scent house rules. Probably good ones. Ther'es little point of half-fiend vermin, though, since their Charisma-based save DCs will be way too low to be effective. Actually, its from Dragon. Let me summarize: level:CR 1:<1 2:1 3:2 4:3 5:4-5 6:6-7 7:8-9 8:10-11 9:12-13. It leaves in the clause that creatures with access to high-level spell-like abilities or lots of HD (Like elementals) are generally one level higher. I think the scorpion qualifies. The DCs are based off either Wisdom of Charisma, and are therefore decent. Anyway, a caster level 20 horrid wilting is gonna hurt regardless. The best part is they get feats, maybe like quicken spell-like ability. They also get resistances and flying, which can be surprisingly useful against, say, dragons
(Psi)SeveredHead 09-02-03, 06:53 PM	Originally posted by catharz Actually, its from Dragon. Let me summarize: level:CR 1:<1 2:1 3:2 4:3 5:4-5 6:6-7 7:8-9 8:10-11 9:12-13. It leaves in the clause that creatures with access to high-level spell-like abilities or lots of HD (Like elementals) are generally one level higher. I think the scorpion qualifies. The DCs are based off either Wisdom of Charisma, and are therefore decent. Anyway, a caster level 20 horrid wilting is gonna hurt regardless. The best part is they get feats, maybe like quicken spell-like ability. They also get resistances and flying, which can be surprisingly useful against, say, dragons You need a Wisdom or Cha of 8 to use the spells, but the save DC is always based on Wisdom.
catharz 09-02-03, 07:05 PM	H, I see what I think you mean. The DCs are always Charisma based. Damn. Ah well, most of the abilities are still worthwhile!
Zelc 09-02-03, 07:26 PM	Summon Monster? It really depends on what you want to do. However, I don't recommend a Summon Monster spell below level 5, as the utility of such spells are minimal and the monsters aren't such great combatants, especially as time goes on. I'd get either Summon Monster 5 or 6 for 1 or 1d3 (respectively) Hound Archons with their Aura of Menace, Aid, Continual Flame, Detect Evil, Message, an 11 point Smite Evil (3x/day), Aura of Courage, Remove Disease (2x/week), some buffs, and the kicker: 33 points of Lay on Hands. How's THAT for a swiss army knife? :D With a Summon Monster 6, you can also summon a Bralani (eladrin), with Tongues (yay!), Blur, Charm Person, Wind Wall, and Cure Serious Wounds. Not as great as the Hound Archons, IMO. Summon Monster 6 also enables the Janni. Change Size 2/day is good for buffing the fighters, and they can use Create Food and Water and Speak with Animals. Level 7 and above, you get to summon some Huge Elementals. Druids have been slobbering over those ever since they got spontaneous summons, and probably for good reason. Also noteworthy at level 7 is the Invisible Stalker. It can track with a +15 bonus (Spot and +2 from Survival). Summoning an Avoral with the level 7 spell is also pretty good, as it gets Lay on Hands (equal to HP, probably 66), Speak with Animals, True Seeing, Fear Aura, Aid, Dispel Magic, Gust of Wind, Hold Person, Magic Circle Against Evil, and Empowered Magic Missiles. However, for purposes of healing, I'd summon 1d4+1 Hound Archons instead. The level 7 spell can also summon a Djinni, with Create Food and Water, Create Wine, and Major Creation (vegetable matter is permanent). He can also turn into a whirlwind. Not bad for a portable food storage, although the level may be a bit prohibitive. Oh... and if DM is stupid/nice, he may allow you to have a chance at summoning Noble Djinn with their 3 Wishes. Level 8 gets you 1d3 Huge elementals and Lillends. Lillends, IMO, aren't that great, although they could be used for the Bardic Music (as lvl 6 Bard) and Knock. Hallucinatory Terrain can be useful as well. Now, I don't advise anyone using the Level 9 Summon Monster, as you gain Shapechange. Shapechange > Summon Monster, except you don't gain any Spell-like abilities (blah blah blah... big deal... Shapechange is still sooo much better). However, if you were to use it, you do get some pretty cool stuff. Coatl: Casts as a level 9 sorcerer, helpful if you're missing a few schools from specializing and want some Level 0-4 utility spells. Also has psionics, though you may need a cooperative DM to implement actual psionics (from the Psionics Handbook). Also gets the spell Ethereal Jaunt. Leonal: Lay on Hands (equal to HP, 114 average), Roar (Holy Word + 2d6), Speak with Animals, and a pretty swanky fighter. If you want to pick up a Summon Monster spell, I highly recommend at least Level 5, and probably Level 7 at most. Also, I did not pick the above forms for their combat effectiveness. You may find that summoning a Celestial Animal may be better in the damage dealing department than the above. I also neglected to list evil summons. Remember, Your Mileage May Vary!