3.5 (preferrably core only): optimizing an ex-monk/barbarian multiclass for tripping [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 (preferrably core only): optimizing an ex-monk/barbarian multiclass for tripping [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DoomSquirrel718
10-07-06, 02:40 AM I would like to make a character that is good at tripping.
EDIT: Please keep multiclass xp penalties in mind.
EDIT: Attributes (Elite array): 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Reasons for suggested classes:
potential for lots of strength (for tripping)
trip feat gained without needing combat expertise (which can't be used during rage)
an extra attack (or two depending on the level division consensus) for more trip attempts
if necessary the monk's MAD can be partially solved by raging
Uncanny Dodge+Monk... nuff said

Houserule Supposition:
If a monk with ki stike lawful takes barbarian levels it turns into ki strike chaotic.

Thanks in advance.
GaffeR
10-07-06, 02:52 AM Half-Orc
Ex-Monk 6/Barbarian 14 (in that order) or Monk 6/Barbarian 12/Fighter 2 if you need feats
1. (IUS, Imp Grapple/Stun Fist)
2. (Combat Reflexes)
6. (Imp Trip)
Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Int>Cha (depending on armor)
Take Power Attack somewhere in the first 6 levels and fight 2-handed with a Quarterstaff. Drop a hand when you want to yank someone down. Grapple vs Stun will depend on your Wis, as will whether or not you wear armor. I'd probably not wear armor, at least until you can get some Bracers of armor and a Periapt of Wis. As far as other feats go, it's core, pick some stuff and run with it.

Edit: I'm not convinced one cannot use Imp Trip in a rage.
He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise
DoomSquirrel718
10-07-06, 03:17 AM Just because you're barred from benefiting from a feat doesn't mean that you don't have it anymore
I just don't want combat expertise because it can't be used not because of rule conficts.
I was thinking that a kama, or kamas, would be more appropriate for this build
Or even a scythe since flurry doesn't work with two handed fighting.
jstorrie
10-07-06, 03:26 AM Flurry does, in fact, work with both two-handed and two-weapon fighting as long as you are only wielding monk weapons.
DoomSquirrel718
10-07-06, 03:30 AM When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus з 1Н or зН) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.
If you have proof of otherwise please provide it.
Two WEAPON fighting, however, is a different matter.
jstorrie
10-07-06, 03:32 AM Proof of what? You can use a weapon two-handed during a flurry. You just don't apply your full Strength bonus to damage rolls.
DoomSquirrel718
10-07-06, 03:42 AM I'm sorry, I just don't get your point. Please clarify.

I think you misunderstood my response. Graffer was proposing fighting two handed during a flurry. I interpreted that as a suggestion that two handed fighting during a flurry granted some kind of significant advantage. Since the rules seem to portray otherwise I wanted to convey my interpertation.

If you have proof that two handed fighting during a flurry DOES grant some kind of significant advantage, please provide it.
jstorrie
10-07-06, 12:57 PM The only significant advantage is that if they don't flurry next round they'll apply more Strength bonus to damage. So if you need to crunch out a lot of attacks for trip attempts, you can flurry, while you can choose not to flurry if you just want to do damage. If you have the two-weapon fighting feat, you can still use it and flurry while holding a weapon in two hands, as well.

Flurry is just not a fantastic mode of attack for high-Strength monks, though. At your DM's discretion you may be able to 'override' the restriction with Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which is something you might consider.
GaffeR
10-07-06, 01:41 PM If you have proof that two handed fighting during a flurry DOES grant some kind of significant advantage, please provide it.
Power Attack.
jstorrie
10-07-06, 04:38 PM An advantage but maybe not a significant one, since you'd probably deal more damage Power Attacking outside of a flurry until you hit the high levels.
DoomSquirrel718
10-08-06, 03:11 AM :bump:Just one build suggestion? Is that really the only optimal way to play this character? No monk abilities higher than 6 will help the barbarian levels? :bump:
DoomSquirrel718
10-22-06, 03:16 AM :bump: :monk: :bump:
DoomSquirrel718
10-22-06, 09:17 PM Stat 01 02 03 04 05 06
STR: 14 17 15 12 10 16
DEX: 13 12 14 15 14 12
CON: 14 14 12 13 15 15
INT: 08 08 08 10 10 08
WIS: 15 13 15 14 13 13
CHA: 06 06 06 06 08 06

Just playing around with the stats, thought I'd post the work.
PhaedrusXY
10-22-06, 10:06 PM Str 15, Con 14, Dex 13, Wis 12, Int 10, Cha 8

Wear armor. You can't use Flurry while grappling anyway.
DoomSquirrel718
11-06-06, 05:16 PM :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :monk: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:
zOgre
11-06-06, 05:46 PM You don't need monk levels to get improved trip without combat expertise, just take the Wolf Totem Barbarian variant(unearthed arcana, p49). You get improved trip at level 2, instead of uncanny dodge.
Hanniball
11-06-06, 05:55 PM Is that really the only optimal way to play this character? No monk abilities higher than 6 will help the barbarian levels?

That depends. Would you prefer Greater Flurry or Greater Rage? More Trip attempts that are less likely to succeed or fewer attempts that are more likely to succeed?

Here's a few different ideas:

Human or Half-Orc Monk 6/Barbarian 11/Horizon Walker 3

Human Monk 11/Barbarian 4/Fighter 4/Horizon Walker 1

Human or Half-Orc Monk 15/Barbarian 4/Horizon Walker 1

Human Monk 6/Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 1/Ftr 2/Dragon Disciple 10

Either way...just my 2 cp
DoomSquirrel718
11-18-06, 07:38 PM Weekly Bump
:bump:
Please keep in mind/ try to avoid multiclass penalties.
DoomSquirrel718
11-27-06, 07:42 PM :bump:
DoomSquirrel718
12-06-06, 10:41 PM :bump:
Hanniball
12-07-06, 01:05 AM Dude, bumping your own post seven times is not good etiquette. I presented 4 core-only options that are all decent in their own right, none of them provide any xp penalties and others have provided some good suggestions as well. What more do you want?

*sigh* Here's another option if you don't like what's been said so far:

Half-Orc Monk 16/Barbarian 1/Half-Orc Paragon 3

+16 BAB, Rage 2/day, the best flurry, and +4 to strength.
Surreal
12-07-06, 01:49 AM Browse around in my collection for a raging paladin omnk.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DoomSquirrel718 10-07-06, 02:40 AM	I would like to make a character that is good at tripping. EDIT: Please keep multiclass xp penalties in mind. EDIT: Attributes (Elite array): 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 Reasons for suggested classes: potential for lots of strength (for tripping) trip feat gained without needing combat expertise (which can't be used during rage) an extra attack (or two depending on the level division consensus) for more trip attempts if necessary the monk's MAD can be partially solved by raging Uncanny Dodge+Monk... nuff said Houserule Supposition: If a monk with ki stike lawful takes barbarian levels it turns into ki strike chaotic. Thanks in advance.
GaffeR 10-07-06, 02:52 AM	Half-Orc Ex-Monk 6/Barbarian 14 (in that order) or Monk 6/Barbarian 12/Fighter 2 if you need feats 1. (IUS, Imp Grapple/Stun Fist) 2. (Combat Reflexes) 6. (Imp Trip) Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Int>Cha (depending on armor) Take Power Attack somewhere in the first 6 levels and fight 2-handed with a Quarterstaff. Drop a hand when you want to yank someone down. Grapple vs Stun will depend on your Wis, as will whether or not you wear armor. I'd probably not wear armor, at least until you can get some Bracers of armor and a Periapt of Wis. As far as other feats go, it's core, pick some stuff and run with it. Edit: I'm not convinced one cannot use Imp Trip in a rage. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise
DoomSquirrel718 10-07-06, 03:17 AM	Just because you're barred from benefiting from a feat doesn't mean that you don't have it anymore I just don't want combat expertise because it can't be used not because of rule conficts. I was thinking that a kama, or kamas, would be more appropriate for this build Or even a scythe since flurry doesn't work with two handed fighting.
jstorrie 10-07-06, 03:26 AM	Flurry does, in fact, work with both two-handed and two-weapon fighting as long as you are only wielding monk weapons.
DoomSquirrel718 10-07-06, 03:30 AM	When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus з 1Н or зН) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. If you have proof of otherwise please provide it. Two WEAPON fighting, however, is a different matter.
jstorrie 10-07-06, 03:32 AM	Proof of what? You can use a weapon two-handed during a flurry. You just don't apply your full Strength bonus to damage rolls.
DoomSquirrel718 10-07-06, 03:42 AM	I'm sorry, I just don't get your point. Please clarify. I think you misunderstood my response. Graffer was proposing fighting two handed during a flurry. I interpreted that as a suggestion that two handed fighting during a flurry granted some kind of significant advantage. Since the rules seem to portray otherwise I wanted to convey my interpertation. If you have proof that two handed fighting during a flurry DOES grant some kind of significant advantage, please provide it.
jstorrie 10-07-06, 12:57 PM	The only significant advantage is that if they don't flurry next round they'll apply more Strength bonus to damage. So if you need to crunch out a lot of attacks for trip attempts, you can flurry, while you can choose not to flurry if you just want to do damage. If you have the two-weapon fighting feat, you can still use it and flurry while holding a weapon in two hands, as well. Flurry is just not a fantastic mode of attack for high-Strength monks, though. At your DM's discretion you may be able to 'override' the restriction with Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which is something you might consider.
GaffeR 10-07-06, 01:41 PM	If you have proof that two handed fighting during a flurry DOES grant some kind of significant advantage, please provide it. Power Attack.
jstorrie 10-07-06, 04:38 PM	An advantage but maybe not a significant one, since you'd probably deal more damage Power Attacking outside of a flurry until you hit the high levels.
DoomSquirrel718 10-08-06, 03:11 AM	:bump:Just one build suggestion? Is that really the only optimal way to play this character? No monk abilities higher than 6 will help the barbarian levels? :bump:
DoomSquirrel718 10-22-06, 03:16 AM	:bump: :monk: :bump:
DoomSquirrel718 10-22-06, 09:17 PM	Stat 01 02 03 04 05 06 STR: 14 17 15 12 10 16 DEX: 13 12 14 15 14 12 CON: 14 14 12 13 15 15 INT: 08 08 08 10 10 08 WIS: 15 13 15 14 13 13 CHA: 06 06 06 06 08 06 Just playing around with the stats, thought I'd post the work.
PhaedrusXY 10-22-06, 10:06 PM	Str 15, Con 14, Dex 13, Wis 12, Int 10, Cha 8 Wear armor. You can't use Flurry while grappling anyway.
DoomSquirrel718 11-06-06, 05:16 PM	:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :monk: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:
zOgre 11-06-06, 05:46 PM	You don't need monk levels to get improved trip without combat expertise, just take the Wolf Totem Barbarian variant(unearthed arcana, p49). You get improved trip at level 2, instead of uncanny dodge.
Hanniball 11-06-06, 05:55 PM	Is that really the only optimal way to play this character? No monk abilities higher than 6 will help the barbarian levels? That depends. Would you prefer Greater Flurry or Greater Rage? More Trip attempts that are less likely to succeed or fewer attempts that are more likely to succeed? Here's a few different ideas: Human or Half-Orc Monk 6/Barbarian 11/Horizon Walker 3 Human Monk 11/Barbarian 4/Fighter 4/Horizon Walker 1 Human or Half-Orc Monk 15/Barbarian 4/Horizon Walker 1 Human Monk 6/Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 1/Ftr 2/Dragon Disciple 10 Either way...just my 2 cp
DoomSquirrel718 11-18-06, 07:38 PM	Weekly Bump :bump: Please keep in mind/ try to avoid multiclass penalties.
DoomSquirrel718 11-27-06, 07:42 PM	:bump:
DoomSquirrel718 12-06-06, 10:41 PM	:bump:
Hanniball 12-07-06, 01:05 AM	Dude, bumping your own post seven times is not good etiquette. I presented 4 core-only options that are all decent in their own right, none of them provide any xp penalties and others have provided some good suggestions as well. What more do you want? sigh Here's another option if you don't like what's been said so far: Half-Orc Monk 16/Barbarian 1/Half-Orc Paragon 3 +16 BAB, Rage 2/day, the best flurry, and +4 to strength.
Surreal 12-07-06, 01:49 AM	Browse around in my collection for a raging paladin omnk.