Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mith 04-28-04, 02:53 PM	I'm building a Psionic character that I may use in a campaign pretty soon, and I was thinking that the thrallherder looks like a very cool PrC - it's what the mindbender should have been. I'd like to build a level 8 Psion/Thrallherder, and I'd appreciate any optimization advice, especially for feats. Right now I'm thinking about doing something like: Human Psion 5/Thrallherder 3 Str - 8 Dex - 12 Con - 14 Int - 18 Wis - 14 Cha - 8 (32 point buy) The Wisdom score, unfortunately, is required for a prereq feat, or the stats would look much nicer. For feats, I was thinking about the following: Spellcasting Prodigy (If I can convince the DM to apply it to PP/day as well.) Psionic Meditation Psionic Endowment Inquisitor (The nasty prereq feat) And I'm not sure how to fill out my last two feat slots. Something like Empower Power is a very nice feat, but this type of character won't be much of a damage dealer - the prereqs for Thrallherder keep him pretty much out of the good damage spells. I guess that if there's nothing else terribly important, Greater Psionic Endowment would be nice. Burrow Power looks incredibly cool, but I'm not sure how useful it would actually be. (Burrow Power basically lets you cast through walls.) The character's HP are going to be fairly low, so something to improve that might be nice. Any thoughts about feat selection are welcome. Equipment suggestions would also be helpful - I'm not entirely certain what he should have, other than the basic Int increasing item, cloak of resistance mithril chain shirt, and a HHH. The final area I could use some help in is cohort building - I'm not sure whether it would be better to have a "meat shield" fighter type cohort, another spellcaster of some sort, or possibly even a rogue. Suggestions would be great, with rationale if possible. Thanks, Mith
Laelenie 04-28-04, 02:59 PM	wilder 11 thrallhearder 9 23 4+8+10+1+1+13 = DC 37 psy Endowment greater psy Endowment Dominate monster at 9 targets DC 37. Combat over.
Mith 04-28-04, 03:28 PM	Why would you ever use Wilder? I may be missing something, but 11 total powers known just doesn't impress me. What you described is one cool trick, and it probably works (didn't bother to look hard at the numbers). But that just doesn't cut it, IMO, when you compare it with a Psion, which gets 3 times as many powers known and the same number of power points. And on the subject of Powers Known, I might as well get some advise on that. Here's what I've been contemplating for my character: Level 1: Attraction Conceal Thoughts Energy Ray Mind Thrust Mindlink Psionic Charm (Bonus Spell Known) Level 2: Psionic Knock Psionic Lock Psionic Suggestion Read Thoughts Level 3: Body Adjustment Dispel Psionics Energy Bolt Hostile Empathetic Transfer Level 4: Mindwipe Wall of Ectoplasm I particularly like Psionic Lock. There's just something that really strikes me as amusing about a character who can lock every door he goes through, so that from then on only he can open it. Other than that, I mostly just chose powers that I felt would be good for utility and intrigue, with a few basic damaging spells thrown in to prevent him from being utterly screwed in a combat situation. With Wall of Ectoplasm, he should be able to do some decent battlefield control if necessary, and mindwipe just looked too good to pass up. He'll get Psionic Dominate as a bonus power from Thrallherd if he waits a couple of levels, so I figured it was probably worth the wait when the only other way to get the extra power known is with a feat.
Mith 04-28-04, 09:42 PM	:bump: Anybody? Feat thoughts? Spell selection thoughts? Cohort thoughts? Come on, even if you don't have the XPH, you can suggest a level 7 cohort for a social interaction-based spellcaster.
ck2001wendt 05-01-04, 10:24 AM	I just think it's funny that your Thrallherd has a Cha 8...
xirkal 05-01-04, 03:41 PM	Originally posted by ck2001wendt I just think it's funny that your Thrallherd has a Cha 8... I was thinking the same thing
TaisharMalkier 05-01-04, 04:10 PM	Zug Zug. For feats, I'd consider Expanded Knowledge to pick up some of the better disciple specific powers. Lately I've been digging ectoplasmic form (see gaseous form, phb ;p, with psionic DR instead of magic), as you get fly speed which is nice, and the aforementioned DR, and can still manfiest powers (albeit with a dc 20 + level concentration check). Metamorphsis is also very nice (see polymorph with no size limits). For general powers, I'd take Crystal Shard over energy ray. You don't get the various special effects (+dmg, +to hit, sonic) but it allows no resistance and bypasses all energy reduction. Energy Push (as written) owns for a level 2 power. Augment for 1 pp +1d6 damage +1 DC. Level 20 Energy Push 23pp(overchanneled by 3) intelligence 30 electric - 21d6 electric DC 54 reflex for half, will if fail reflex stun for a round ;p. Hits 4x 5' squares (5' radius) so it's nice sometimes for precision instead of energy bolt. For cohorts, I'd prolly chose a half giant psywar or something similar - make them take power transfer (or whatever it's called ;p) to give you pp if you really need it.
jensun 05-01-04, 09:24 PM	What you can do is make your cohort a Psion who spends his entire time Metamorphosed into an object which you carry but remains a valid target for your metaconcert giving you huge PP reserves. Of course its not much of a life for the poor fool but you are a Thrallherd...
Borin 05-01-04, 10:38 PM	Originally posted by jensun What you can do is make your cohort a Psion who spends his entire time Metamorphosed into an object which you carry but remains a valid target for your metaconcert giving you huge PP reserves. Of course its not much of a life for the poor fool but you are a Thrallherd... Why not let him walk in front of you? Let him be another target for this guy: :behold: , you don't want to get hit yourself by his rays, now do ya?
catharz 05-01-04, 11:09 PM	Originally posted by jensun What you can do is make your cohort a Psion who spends his entire time Metamorphosed into an object which you carry but remains a valid target for your metaconcert giving you huge PP reserves. Of course its not much of a life for the poor fool but you are a Thrallherd... I think they would work much better as a Kaorti Psion/Fiend of posession holed up in their weapon familiar Ribbon scimitar :smirk:
Mith 05-02-04, 12:56 AM	Well, since someone decided to bump this, I guess I'll post an update: I decided to change his stats to: Str - 8 Dex - 10 Con - 12 Int - 18 Wis - 14 Cha - 12 I've decided to take a wizard as my cohort. Yeah, it would probably be smarter to take a meatshield, but I wanted to expand his versatility. Then I'm going to have the wizard take Leadership, and get a half-ogre bodyguard. Incidentally, if anyone has a good ECL 5 half-ogre meatshield build, it would be welcome. This character will be a completely non-melee combat pansy, who will rely on his ogre meatshield and his other dominated meatshields to protect him. As far as energy ray vs. crystal shard, I'm not really considering energy ray a main combat spell for him, especially with his crappy ranged touch attack. It's more just because it gives access to all 4 elements, and having access to them can be useful for general purposes. I'm not sure about Expanded knowledge - I mean for a whole feat that had better be a damn good power. Energy push sounds interesting enough that that might be viable. I still haven't decided on is what to do about his feats. If anyone has suggestions for good feats, post them up. Otherwise I'll probably just toss in an assortment of metapsionics that sound cool, and maybe some feats to give him HP. Other welcome suggestions would be non-FR wizard prestige classes that would be good for his cohort, and equipment to use for this kind of character. Thanks, Mith
TaisharMalkier 05-02-04, 03:16 AM	Zug Zug. "I'm not sure about Expanded knowledge - I mean for a whole feat that had better be a damn good power. Energy push sounds interesting enough that that might be viable." Energy Push is a general power. I actually meant Energy Stun though, which is still a general power. =P Cheers
Mith 05-02-04, 03:28 PM	*checks his XPH* Woah - don't know how I could have missed that. Energy Stun is just plain sick, and is definitely going on my power list somewhere.
jensun 05-02-04, 03:59 PM	I'm not sure about Expanded knowledge - I mean for a whole feat that had better be a damn good power. Energy push sounds interesting enough that that might be viable. Just remember that you can research new powers and they dont have to be on your own discipline list. Its far more efficient to spend 200xp and a week of down time to grab Astral Construct than it is to waste an entire feat on getting it.
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 02:40 PM	Just a thought but why worry about power selection with Psychic Reformation, you become the ultimate Red Mage able to change ya powers top suite your need. And with only a measly 50 exp cost per lvl beyond the first i mean COMMON. AND it works with other characters:angel:
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 02:48 PM	Has anyone ever REALLY read the thrallerd Prestige Class. I mean the DM HAS to give you the Thrall and Belivers. Also if they die WITHIN 24 hours they are replaced. Not only do you get to keep all the MONEY and ITEMS from your followers and Thralls BUT you also can Technically get Xp if you kill them yourselves. " oh my my 12th lvl fighter with a +5 quarterstaff died..dang.. i guess i just make a new umm.... Fighter yea with bracers of+8. Oh jeez look he died agian i guess i better get umm a Skin of the Psion yea that sounds good." The possibilites are ENDLESS also if your looking for some good feat selections then i suggest Getting that overpower feat and then talented,Improved Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, (they keep you alive) or that one feat that gives you 5 extra skill ranks, just stick them into Tuble and you got a tumbling mage. Unless you would want Cosmoploliton but then you have to spend ya own skillz. Becure to get the 2 feats that let you increase the DC of the save and the one feat that lets you get your psionic focus back. After that you really can take anyhting you want.:angel:
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 02:59 PM	On a unrelated Topic When 3.5 came out Dragon Magazine released a Issue that had a Woman fighter and a elf mage on the cover, inside there were ALTERNATE core classes for the fighter. The very last one called the Pugilist sucked really bad (think monk that only deals subdual) anyway one of the special feats that it had said the Pugilist Converted HP dmg into Subdual well.................................... . 2 issues later they released one that had rules for Half-Undead....... Of all of them presented in there the Half-Zombie caught my eye. With only a lvl adj, +1 and eith stat bonus of +4 str -2dex +2 con and-2 to int and cha he had a little ability that was seperate from the normal stuff that all undead share..... He was IMMUNE to Subdual DMG...................................GE T IT. You have a well... ANYTHING that is IMMUNE to ALL Forms of DMG. All you need to do is take 1 lvl of puligist and get that feat and BAM. only what Cloud kill you say? BAM Necklace of Adaption. only 9k Instant kill you say BAM ring of death ward for the small price of 150k your immune to all things presented in deathward. Only now if i could figure out Disienergrate.:angel:
catharz 07-06-04, 03:01 PM	Originally posted by Wizard Random Has anyone ever REALLY read the thrallerd Prestige Class. I mean the DM HAS to give you the Thrall and Belivers. Also if they die WITHIN 24 hours they are replaced. Not only do you get to keep all the MONEY and ITEMS from your followers and Thralls BUT you also can Technically get Xp if you kill them yourselves. Once you start abusing the Thrallherd mechanics like that it is perfectly within the DM's rights to start giving you high-level commonsers (with all of their GP sunk into their farms), and dragons (overblown ECL) with all of their gear far far away in some cave.
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 03:55 PM	Hey now if the DM starts giving me High lvl Commoners and Dare i say DRAGONS hell yea i will take a Young dragon anyday. But come now if He/She gives me commoners all i have to do is use them in conjunction for stealing things, and there never was a better (trap) tester than a Human. " Hmm i think there are 4 traps down that way but i failed my trap check so i dont know" "oh dont worry thief i got that covered Hey Kevin" Stop picking your nose and run down that hallway at full speed please." And besides if they have all their money in their farm please, if he is a 8th lvl commoner then that is like a 100,000 Gold farm get the deed and sell it. Not to meantion if nothing else you can get the deed and later build a castle on the area. You know all those low lvl followers perfect servents that will never betray their master :):):):):) And besides working with a dragon you can have it terroize a small comunity and then go and "defeat the dragon" earning tons of RP xp and money + favors from the town.:angel:
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 04:02 PM	Geez just think of the implications of PLaying a thrallered. Supposing you get a score of 25+ (which is very likley) you will have close to 200 npc's to do your bidding. You could start a campain aganst the material planes with those kionda numbers. And once you get rolling there are alwyas plenty of Evil huminoids and or people who would gladly join your cause. "Hmm i will raise your paladin with my Blackguard" And think about it just still your belivers and thrall on the front lines and Voila they will be replaced possibly from even the opposing army. Also if you were able tp unite with OTHER thrallerds then you could spread acorss the planes like a plauge. MAn thinking along these lines i am (---) that much closer to getting my Floating Castle.:angel: :angel: :angel:
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 04:06 PM	I just got a PM asking what my Fav Alignment is , i prefer CN but sometimes i go LE, remeber kids you can be the best LE villian you want but until the time is right you have to act CG to lull the party into compliance, and if their is a paladin in the group kill him over and over and maybe the Person will get the hiint to avoid things such as Paladins:mad:
catharz 07-06-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by Wizard Random But come now if He/She gives me commoners all i have to do is use them in conjunction for stealing things, and there never was a better (trap) tester than a Human. " Hmm i think there are 4 traps down that way but i failed my trap check so i dont know" "oh dont worry thief i got that covered Hey Kevin" Stop picking your nose and run down that hallway at full speed please." A Wizards with Summon monster 1 is more effective... Originally posted by Wizard Random And besides if they have all their money in their farm please, if he is a 8th lvl commoner then that is like a 100,000 Gold farm get the deed and sell it. Not to meantion if nothing else you can get the deed and later build a castle on the area. You know all those low lvl followers perfect servents that will never betray their master :):):):):) A cohort (and Thrall rules follow cohort rules in all but name and level determination) is under no obligation to give you anything beyond their services as an ally. And if you think you can get that deed after they died to traps, think again. There is almost certainly a will written up granting it to the family taking care of the farm while the farmer is off being your Nodwick. And as for the dragon stuff... I'm dissapointed in you.
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 04:15 PM	Oh common, first off a wizard with summon lvl 1 is not more effective, not only do you waste a slot that chould be the Bestest of the best Magic Missle but the monster only shows up for 1 or so rounds, ALSO it does not SAY anywhere is the Expanded Psionics handbook that it funtctions just like Leadership, but it does say they get a Ablility that is "kinda like it" Besides they are under your Mental Command, otherwise they would not show up. Second if he does have a deed, since your his newest freind i am sure he could include you in it, also if that does not work Kill his family say orcs did it and THEN get him to sighn it over to you, also dont forget about the free charm person AND dominate that the class gives you, so much more fun in those two...
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 04:23 PM	Also would like to point out that Summon Undead 1 is better than Summon Monster 1 . BAM!!!
belial33 07-06-04, 09:08 PM	my thrallherder never abused the thralls but the followers were sooo usefull for traps (i'm LN so waste of life doesnt bother me as much as say a LG) and since it says you can try to recruit followers and cohorts of specific races and classes (limited by their ECL) if you have no other use for some of the believers just "recruit" rogues, in large enough groups they are way more useful than fighter types, and great for scouts and trap finders (possibly springers). And if you are anywhere any decent sized city or settlement there are sure to be plenty of low level rogues. I just use the thralls to fill niches our group needed filled a rogue/cleric and a wiz (yeah being a psion im kind of the wiz but she can at least use all the wand/stave/and scrolls we find) They both hang out and guard me and buff the party. At lower level i also made sure plenty of the believers were clerics for mass healing between battle when we needed it. And dont forget just cause you have no use for all the first levels at 20th they are quite capable of just making you money in some large city (a craft/profession check each week figuring an average roll of 10 with a +4 (figured as average) is 7gp a week -say 2gp for living expenses so 5gp*135= 675gp a week) not a huge amount but can at least build up a nice nestegg, especially if your in the kind of campain that has alot of downtime.
Wizard Random 07-07-04, 11:10 AM	Yea see now B33 has it all done correctly. There are lots of uses and such, but one thing i wanna point out is that there is no 'recruiting" since you dont have to do anything on your part except say exist. If ya get tired of a certain beliver or whatnot i guess you could "let go" of one of them say by cutting the connection or you could jsut kill them. But hey as B33 said he is LN i tend to play CN more often than anyhting, so loss of life tends to bother me even less than say LN. :) fun talking feel free to "talk back"
Wizard Random 10-25-04, 06:38 PM	Hey everyone i know that it has been a long time since i have posted on this thread but i just relized something the other day. If ya are going to be a thrallerd go 10th lvl why u ask, Simply because you get 2 "thralls" assuming your at least a 17th lvl manafestor you can take extra power and get ehhe shall i type it?!?, you can get Fusion. Tee hEe Get this assume you have a thrall fighter and say a thrall rouge , fuse them with yoursef to become to ultimate power int he cosmos. If you keep at it assuming you hit say 30th lvl you can easily rival the power of the gods. And as a bonus you do not detract from the party. If you fuse with your thralls you dont lose anyone in the party. ASLO assuming your 20th lvl, your first thrall is 19th, and ur second one is 18th you fuse to become a "57th" lvl character and the reason i stick it in quotes is because in reality you are still a 20th lvl person get xp for someone of that lvl etc etc. "technically" your cr doesnt change at all. the same way someones Cr doesnt change when they get a +5 vorpal Sword. GET it!?!?
Wizard Random 10-25-04, 06:40 PM	aLSO dont forget thew old psionic feats where you can make your powers last twice as long or dare i say it 24 hours.!!!!!!! Oh and you dont have to stop there at your thralls you can keep going at your belivers and even party members. hell you can even fuse with other monsters assuming you can change ur shape and trust me if your a 17th lvl manafester you can , then it just keeps scaling upwards.
scrollreader 10-25-04, 11:57 PM	Ahem. You don't get to choose your thrall. A cohort, you can sorta recruit, and at least have some discretion over. When a thrall herd starts abusing his thralls, that's when the DM gets to have fun. Half Trolls with Hexblade 3/Rogue 2/Bard X. And Int 3. Half Orge Bards. Paladins (with Vow of Poverty, no less) Necromancers "What? Your wife is much more obediant, this way? Isn't this what you wanted?" And the list goes on. Of course, this doesn't need to happen, if the thrallherd is responsible. But a CE assassin who thinks that your adventuring companions are holding you back ... is just the beginning. -------------------------------------------- And let's not forget family members. While that young red dragon might serve you without thought ... his Grandmother is likely NOT going to be happy, when you get him killed 'checking for traps'.
Wizard Random 10-26-04, 06:41 PM	That was Wonderful Scrollreader. Finaly someone who actually understands a point of veiw, but you must remeber, the expanded psioncs handbook doesnt say ANYWhere that you dont get to pick your thralls or belivers, thats a topic that needs to be agreed upon by the Dm and the player and even assuming that the CE Assasin, thinks my party is holding me back (thats so funny i cant help but smile) he would not get to act on it. He is under your direct command, think of it as a Drolem (MM2) it follows words to the letter so unless you have expressed some sort of "displeasure" about your commrads in arms and he does go through with it, theres always more meat sheilds...i mean freinds to be found at the nearest tavern. Now the Dragon one, i cant get around that one. that is smart. but my rebuttal would be that i would never send a dragon to test for traps. i belive i mentioned "dragon Killing" even through i wouldnt be killing him butt he viligers would THINk i did........ The grandmother will still kill me wont she. :weep:
Wizard Random 10-26-04, 06:46 PM	:D Now i understand how True Strike sword awould be munchkin etc. etc. But Why waste valuble gold and less enchanments for what you really want in a sword when you can have gloves of True Strike (maybe No Slot) for only 9700 GP??? And besides its easier to lose a swrod than say a pair of gloves, Under Adamatine guantlets.:) :rolleyes: