Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chris7476 01-31-04, 01:23 PM	I'm thinking of playing a Shifter in a 3.5 game and our group is toying with the house rule of allowing wild shape to gain Ex abilities. We currently allow it for druids but the Shifter raises the bar. So my question is is the Shifter viable in 3.5 if you gain all Ex abilities of the creatures you become? Now what if you change that to SOME Ex abilities? As of right now, my DM won't allow regeneration or fast healing, and I can't say I blame him (although I'm still a little disappointed). So that rules out trolls and hydras at least for their regen abilities. Things like spell resistance and some forms of DR are still under debate. If the Ex ability is some kind of resistance, immunity, or sensory ability (darkvision, tremorsense, etc), there is a good chance it will be allowed. Given all of this, is the 3.5 Shifter a more attractive option? ---------------- I also had a question about whether you gain feats when you use wild shape or polymorph if anyone is interested in checking it out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173808 ------------------ Here's a build I was thinking about: Human Drd 5/Shifter 10/Nature's Warrior 5 (in that order) I doubt this campaign will get above level 15 however. 1: Alertness, Endurance 3: Natural Spell 6: Combat Reflexes (to use with creatures with reach) 9: Exalted Wild Shape (blink dog!!) 12: ? 15: Track (req for Nature's Warrior) 18: ?
Iku Rex 01-31-04, 03:01 PM	I'm playing a shifter right now (using 3.5 polymorph) and that's working out just fine. The big "clue" is that the shifter description specifically allows you to keep your equipment (if at all reasonable). That's a big advantage. Are you starting at 1st level?
chris7476 01-31-04, 03:22 PM	Are you starting at 1st level? Most likely 10 (Drd 5/Shifter 5). The big "clue" is that the shifter description specifically allows you to keep your equipment (if at all reasonable). That's a big advantage. Yeah, I agree. I was thinking of starting with a Druid's Vestment (since I don't want to investment in Extra Wild Shape since you get that for "free" at Shifter 10) and an Amulet of Health +4. I figure anything that is vaguely humanoid or 4-legged can wear an amulet without problem. What's your take on rings? I figure those would be fine in most forms as well.
Belldandy 01-31-04, 06:21 PM	AND you're heading for warshifter asap (or straight after shifter, yup?) To take the pi$$ try the bear warrior approach? (bear warriors wildshpe ADDS the stat bonuses of the thing change rather than sets them. If you combine this with shifter it's worth having good stats) But you gotta get ya DM to approve. eg: a bear warrior (from CW) ADDS +15str+2dex+6con. so a druid would have Str25 Dex12 COn16 a shifter startingin Str14 Dex14 Con14 would become Str29 Dex16 COn20 (and then with warshifter to be: Str33 Dex16 COn24, then the items.... ) There are a few ways in which I've found 3.5 shifters can still work as they are. (They do seem to miss out lots at the moment, but clever ways are being devised by minds accross the world) Warshifter helps as now all forms get stronger and tougher! Oh and immune to crits! And see if you can take the "assume supernatural ability" feat from savage species (your character is more monsterous than human when he can take sooooo many forms!) That way you can't get regeneration or the fast healing (unless someone out thre has a form of it in SU?) But you CAN breath like a dragon or antimagic cone like a beholder!
Funny Slaughter 01-31-04, 06:28 PM	hi chris, welcome back :) how about the 3.5-shifter i posted with harzerkatze? too exotic? i think the shifter as presented in MotW does not fit the powerneeds of most min/maxers, but as i felt you was one of the "back to the roots"-guys (without any offense) and i think that one can be a force that has to be reckoned with. dont forget to abuse assume su-ability from savage species. and stay NG so that you can get exalted wildshape, getting all su-abilities of celestial animals you can shape in as well as these magical beasts is really great, even without any possible abuses due to the shifters open-written "mix with druid wildshape as you want"-formula. gs Funny
chris7476 01-31-04, 06:56 PM	hi chris, welcome back Hey, thanks. I've been stopping by once in a while but just haven't had the time to post as much. I've finally gotten some of the new 3.5 books so I'm starting to feel back up to speed. how about the 3.5-shifter i posted with harzerkatze? too exotic? No, I think it's a great rewrite. I just think if you house rule that wild shape grants Ex abilities (or at least some), a drastic rewrite isn't necessarily needed. This is personal opinion and has nothing to do with the quality of your new version. Plus, I don't think I want to spring a drastic revision on this group. dont forget to abuse assume su-ability from savage species. Yeah, I know that one. Any suggestions? I was thinking about the Invisible Stalker's Natural Invisibility. I guess if I don't go Nature's Warrior (and thus not needing Track), I could go for Assume Su and Imp Assume Su. and stay NG so that you can get exalted wildshape, getting all su-abilities of celestial animals you can shape in as well as these magical beasts is really great Exalted Wild Shape rocks, even if the Shifter can already assume most of the creatures on it. It's worth it just for the blink dog (blink and dimension door as a free action, unlimited!). IIRC, you can only gain the Su abilities of maagical beast that are no higher than CR 3, and then again, it's subject to DM approval. Blink dog and celestial dire whatevers are good enough for me. Warshifter helps as now all forms get stronger and tougher! Now that I've read the Warshaper again, it's pretty cool. Nature's Warrior is nice though because it grants +1/level BAB. I could even go Warshaper 4/Nature's Warrior 1 since I don't need Flashmorph/multimorph of the Warshaper. Question on Morphic Body: are the stat bonuses applied to just your natural form or ALL the forms you wild shape into? My guess is all forms since the whole point of the Warshaper is to be able to gain complete control over your shaping. Morphic reach is insane, especially when used with creatures with natural reach and if you have Combat Reflexes (which I plan to take). Morphic Healing also helps since I won't get regen as an Ex ability. Also, any equipment ideas I can use with Shifter?
Sisyfos 01-31-04, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by chris7476 Question on Morphic Body: are the stat bonuses applied to just your natural form or ALL the forms you wild shape into? My guess is all forms since the whole point of the Warshaper is to be able to gain complete control over your shaping. As I've read it, morphic body would apply the stat bonuses only to the forms you wildshape into and not at all to your natural form.
chris7476 01-31-04, 08:42 PM	As I've read it, morphic body would apply the stat bonuses only to the forms you wildshape into and not at all to your natural form. Perhaps I should have read the little section undead Class Features: "...function only when the warshaper is in a form other than her own." I guess that's still advantageous since you'll spend most of your time wild-shaped anyway.
chris7476 01-31-04, 11:15 PM	Any other thoughts on feats, progression, equipment Su abilities to take with Assume Su Ability, etc? For equipment, I was think Ioun stones would be really good. Also, question on Assume Su ability: If you take a Su ability that is an attack form (standard action), do you need to take the Improved version to overcome the -2 penalty? It makes sense for something like a Displacer Beast since that is continuous.
chris7476 02-01-04, 02:29 PM	Wow, things sure do get pushed down quickly nowadays....
Funny Slaughter 02-01-04, 02:56 PM	Wow, things sure do get pushed down quickly nowadays.... yeah, good ol' times :king: i think you have to take the improved version to overcome the penalty, but in fact i doubt that it is really worth it. useful offensive su-abilities are quite rare, especially you should know since it was big part your ideas to rework the save-DC of PrC-abilities that are quite linked to monster abilities. i am not too much into monsters so i dont know about many su-abilities one could take. gaining the benefits of the celestial template while in animal form seems to be a great thing, depending on the DMs needs for a houserule it could be interesting to use quite some different animals and lay down the smite evil a few times. if you are going the exalted path anyhow i would also suggest touch of golden ice. the DC is not really high, but any experienced gamer knows that this is not important as long as the enemy (or you) has to make the check all the time. poison your enemy every 20 strikes is nothing bad if you have access to cool shapes. gs Funny