3.5: Maximizing Spell DC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5: Maximizing Spell DC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chris7476
07-23-03, 01:03 PM Well now with 3.5, the options for boosting those DC's is few and far between. Aside from Spell Focus and Gr Spell Focus getting toned down, the biggest change comes from the "Spell Power" nerf that the Archmage and Red Wizard have. The big question is whether or not any PrC or feat that lists spell power gets the same change (from +DC to +caster level).

So aside from high ability scores and ability boosting items and spells, what are the ways to boost DC's now?

Here's what I have so far:

PHB & Splatbooks
Gnome Illusions: +1
Spell Focus: +1
Greater Spell Focus: +1
Tattoo Focus: +1
Blood Magus Blood Component: +1
Fatespinner Spin Fate: up to +3
Elemental Savant's Elemental Focus: up to +3 (This one is a tough call. It might go the way of Spell Power. Otherwise, the ES becomes a very powerful PrC.)

Unapproachable East
Durthan Utter Cold: +2 to cold spells
Rauthathari Battlemage Sublime Sword: +1

Races of Faerun
Duergar Mindshaper: +1 (spell power)
Genie Lore: +1
Lightbringer: +2 (spell power.)
Rock Gnome Trickster: +1 (spell power)
Sacred Tattoo: +1
Shadow Song: +1
Spell-Like Ability Focus: +2 (could work with Archmage or other PrC ability.)
Svirfneblin Figment Master:+1 (spell power)

------------
Personally, I think the Spell Power nerf went a bit too far. The biggest abuse was the Archmage's +3 and +2. If they just made it so the Archmage gets +1 each time he takes Spell Power, along with the Spell Focus change, I think the problem would have been solved. That way, you can leave the rest of the similar PrC's and feats alone. Now, there are a lot of question marks.
greymarch
07-23-03, 02:26 PM This is true. It has become much more difficult to increase the DC of your spells in D&D 3.5. Whether this is good or not is debatable, and doesnt really belong in this thread.

Take a look at the feats in the BoVD. I believe there are some ways to increase the DC for spells that have the evil descriptor.

Shadow Adept, from the FRCS has the old-school spell power ability, but I am sure that will get nerfed.

My brother is a wizard junkie, and he has been hitting the books in hopes of finding ways to increase the DC of his spells. I will direct him to this thread, and perhaps he can help us find some new ways.
greymarch
07-23-03, 02:40 PM Bah! damn double post. Please ignore.
Curse_of_Cassandra
07-23-03, 03:05 PM Oops, this first one falls into your ASIDE FROM category
MAGIC OF FAERUN
Spell enhacer (+ 2 DC of spell) {if revised, possibly only +1 DC in the future}

LORDS OF DARKNESS
A wonderful herb called Panaeolo (+2 DC to all arcane spells for 1d4 hours) {minor side effect or 1d6 temporary charisma damage but easily counterable with a potion of lesser restoration; addiction rate is low, so probably few tweaked out wizards or sorcerers :twitch: }

And by way of association and the only logical conclusion, spell power has been nerfed for all prestige clases or feats that grant it.
Alathar Vierce
07-23-03, 04:00 PM FRCS:

Illusion Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level
Gnome Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level

Tyranny Domain: Add +2 to the saving throw DC of any compulsion spell you cast
Hanniball
07-23-03, 04:28 PM Alluring from the song and silence adds +2 to the DC of all language based spells...don't know if this helps but hey it works.

either way...just my 0.02 cp
ShadowDreamer
07-23-03, 04:36 PM in BoVD they ha e some extra componets you can use when casting a spell, i think some of those boost DCs...At work right now so i can't really be more specific...
Snow Savant
07-23-03, 08:12 PM Talfirian Song from the RoF book helps a Human Bard or Virtuoso "heighten" a spell's level by spending ranks of Bard Music. You can boost a spell to 9th level this way (thereby boosting its relative DC value). It's a cool feat. :)

Also, in the MagicoF book is a substance called Faerie Dust. At 100 GP an ounce, it adds a +1 DC to Illusion spells if used as an additional spell component.

Alathar said:
FRCS: Illusion Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level
Gnome Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level

Weird domain special ability, if you ask me. Casting illusions with a "concentration" duration are not benefitted by the caster level boost. Of course, it does help other aspects of the spells.

XO,
Snow :cloud9:
Balthanon
07-23-03, 09:13 PM Along the same lines as the Talfirian Song feat, the Primitive Caster feat allows you to raise the effective level of a spell by adding components (V, S, M only) that aren't part of the spell normally. So for instance, a cleric casting Inflict Light Wounds could add a material component to the spell and make it a second level spell instead of first.

The feat is most useful for clerics, since almost none of their spells actually require material components (aside from those with expensive material components), but a sorcerer or wizard could probably get some use out of it as well. It's not quite as versatile or powerful as Talfirian Song, but it also doesn't have a per day usage limit either and doesn't require multiclassing.
Boondoggle
07-23-03, 11:56 PM Fortissimo spell from S&S boosts DCs of sonic spells by 2 and adds 1d6 damage. Our party's mage who's fond of using sonic energy substitution doesn't seem to mind when my bard casts it on him.
Zoner
07-24-03, 12:39 AM Didn't you forget spell casting prodigy? or did they rework that already.
Haplo patryn supreme
07-24-03, 07:54 AM I have also been very curious how spellcasting prodigy works in 3.5, anybody know?

Bloodline of fire for sorcerors would work to raise the DC.

There's also a bard spell from S&S that adds 1D4+1 to spells DC. not sure if this is personal for the bard or not though.

:confused:
thehumanbullet
07-24-03, 08:11 AM Sherem-Lar Sorcery and Sherezem-Lar Sorcery both increase DCs by 1 if a sorc and Corrupt Arcane Studies increases both DCs and spell pen by 1 (at the cost of -2 Wis) from Ghostwalk
Lord Arkhaven
07-24-03, 08:54 AM I would think that in all instances where the term Spell Power is used the newer (weaker) 3.5 version steps in. When a feat, ability, or other item says +x to DC I guess it still stays because there is no way to misinterperet that wording.

I'm hoping a Forgotten Realms 3.5 update is posted soon. The FR rule suppliments and additions are so intertwined with all of the campaigns I'm in that characters won't truly be 3.5 without them.
Snow Savant
07-24-03, 08:54 AM You know, I think we'll see more people sneak a level of Fatespinner in at higher levels of a Wiz/Sorc build in lieu of the recently nerfed ArchMage. If you take it at level 18, 19, or 20, you, the spellcasting level loss is not as noticeable.

Besides, Spin is fun. :)

Snow ....
Borin
07-24-03, 10:37 AM Boosting your spellcasting stat seems more effective than feats like Spell Focus. So:

Sun Elf (+2 int)
Star Elf (+2 cha)
Spellcasting Prodigy (another +2 to spellcasting stat for spellcasting effects)

+2 to spellcasting stat gives +1 to all save DC's, instead of +1 to the save DC's of one school or one type of spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chris7476 07-23-03, 01:03 PM	Well now with 3.5, the options for boosting those DC's is few and far between. Aside from Spell Focus and Gr Spell Focus getting toned down, the biggest change comes from the "Spell Power" nerf that the Archmage and Red Wizard have. The big question is whether or not any PrC or feat that lists spell power gets the same change (from +DC to +caster level). So aside from high ability scores and ability boosting items and spells, what are the ways to boost DC's now? Here's what I have so far: PHB & Splatbooks Gnome Illusions: +1 Spell Focus: +1 Greater Spell Focus: +1 Tattoo Focus: +1 Blood Magus Blood Component: +1 Fatespinner Spin Fate: up to +3 Elemental Savant's Elemental Focus: up to +3 (This one is a tough call. It might go the way of Spell Power. Otherwise, the ES becomes a very powerful PrC.) Unapproachable East Durthan Utter Cold: +2 to cold spells Rauthathari Battlemage Sublime Sword: +1 Races of Faerun Duergar Mindshaper: +1 (spell power) Genie Lore: +1 Lightbringer: +2 (spell power.) Rock Gnome Trickster: +1 (spell power) Sacred Tattoo: +1 Shadow Song: +1 Spell-Like Ability Focus: +2 (could work with Archmage or other PrC ability.) Svirfneblin Figment Master:+1 (spell power) ------------ Personally, I think the Spell Power nerf went a bit too far. The biggest abuse was the Archmage's +3 and +2. If they just made it so the Archmage gets +1 each time he takes Spell Power, along with the Spell Focus change, I think the problem would have been solved. That way, you can leave the rest of the similar PrC's and feats alone. Now, there are a lot of question marks.
greymarch 07-23-03, 02:26 PM	This is true. It has become much more difficult to increase the DC of your spells in D&D 3.5. Whether this is good or not is debatable, and doesnt really belong in this thread. Take a look at the feats in the BoVD. I believe there are some ways to increase the DC for spells that have the evil descriptor. Shadow Adept, from the FRCS has the old-school spell power ability, but I am sure that will get nerfed. My brother is a wizard junkie, and he has been hitting the books in hopes of finding ways to increase the DC of his spells. I will direct him to this thread, and perhaps he can help us find some new ways.
greymarch 07-23-03, 02:40 PM	Bah! damn double post. Please ignore.
Curse_of_Cassandra 07-23-03, 03:05 PM	Oops, this first one falls into your ASIDE FROM category MAGIC OF FAERUN Spell enhacer (+ 2 DC of spell) {if revised, possibly only +1 DC in the future} LORDS OF DARKNESS A wonderful herb called Panaeolo (+2 DC to all arcane spells for 1d4 hours) {minor side effect or 1d6 temporary charisma damage but easily counterable with a potion of lesser restoration; addiction rate is low, so probably few tweaked out wizards or sorcerers :twitch: } And by way of association and the only logical conclusion, spell power has been nerfed for all prestige clases or feats that grant it.
Alathar Vierce 07-23-03, 04:00 PM	FRCS: Illusion Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level Gnome Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level Tyranny Domain: Add +2 to the saving throw DC of any compulsion spell you cast
Hanniball 07-23-03, 04:28 PM	Alluring from the song and silence adds +2 to the DC of all language based spells...don't know if this helps but hey it works. either way...just my 0.02 cp
ShadowDreamer 07-23-03, 04:36 PM	in BoVD they ha e some extra componets you can use when casting a spell, i think some of those boost DCs...At work right now so i can't really be more specific...
Snow Savant 07-23-03, 08:12 PM	Talfirian Song from the RoF book helps a Human Bard or Virtuoso "heighten" a spell's level by spending ranks of Bard Music. You can boost a spell to 9th level this way (thereby boosting its relative DC value). It's a cool feat. :) Also, in the MagicoF book is a substance called Faerie Dust. At 100 GP an ounce, it adds a +1 DC to Illusion spells if used as an additional spell component. Alathar said: FRCS: Illusion Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level Gnome Domain: Cast Illusions at +1 caster level Weird domain special ability, if you ask me. Casting illusions with a "concentration" duration are not benefitted by the caster level boost. Of course, it does help other aspects of the spells. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Balthanon 07-23-03, 09:13 PM	Along the same lines as the Talfirian Song feat, the Primitive Caster feat allows you to raise the effective level of a spell by adding components (V, S, M only) that aren't part of the spell normally. So for instance, a cleric casting Inflict Light Wounds could add a material component to the spell and make it a second level spell instead of first. The feat is most useful for clerics, since almost none of their spells actually require material components (aside from those with expensive material components), but a sorcerer or wizard could probably get some use out of it as well. It's not quite as versatile or powerful as Talfirian Song, but it also doesn't have a per day usage limit either and doesn't require multiclassing.
Boondoggle 07-23-03, 11:56 PM	Fortissimo spell from S&S boosts DCs of sonic spells by 2 and adds 1d6 damage. Our party's mage who's fond of using sonic energy substitution doesn't seem to mind when my bard casts it on him.
Zoner 07-24-03, 12:39 AM	Didn't you forget spell casting prodigy? or did they rework that already.
Haplo patryn supreme 07-24-03, 07:54 AM	I have also been very curious how spellcasting prodigy works in 3.5, anybody know? Bloodline of fire for sorcerors would work to raise the DC. There's also a bard spell from S&S that adds 1D4+1 to spells DC. not sure if this is personal for the bard or not though. :confused:
thehumanbullet 07-24-03, 08:11 AM	Sherem-Lar Sorcery and Sherezem-Lar Sorcery both increase DCs by 1 if a sorc and Corrupt Arcane Studies increases both DCs and spell pen by 1 (at the cost of -2 Wis) from Ghostwalk
Lord Arkhaven 07-24-03, 08:54 AM	I would think that in all instances where the term Spell Power is used the newer (weaker) 3.5 version steps in. When a feat, ability, or other item says +x to DC I guess it still stays because there is no way to misinterperet that wording. I'm hoping a Forgotten Realms 3.5 update is posted soon. The FR rule suppliments and additions are so intertwined with all of the campaigns I'm in that characters won't truly be 3.5 without them.
Snow Savant 07-24-03, 08:54 AM	You know, I think we'll see more people sneak a level of Fatespinner in at higher levels of a Wiz/Sorc build in lieu of the recently nerfed ArchMage. If you take it at level 18, 19, or 20, you, the spellcasting level loss is not as noticeable. Besides, Spin is fun. :) Snow ....
Borin 07-24-03, 10:37 AM	Boosting your spellcasting stat seems more effective than feats like Spell Focus. So: Sun Elf (+2 int) Star Elf (+2 cha) Spellcasting Prodigy (another +2 to spellcasting stat for spellcasting effects) +2 to spellcasting stat gives +1 to all save DC's, instead of +1 to the save DC's of one school or one type of spells.