Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Timespike 01-17-07, 12:01 PM	What with the recent glut of multiclass PrCs (not something you'll hear me complaining about, BTW!) The idea struck me that parties made up of 3 can all subsume the missing role, each multiclassing as it to compansate for the missing party member by splitting the responsibilities amongst themselves. Examples: Missing Rogue Warrior: Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2/Invisible Blade 5/Nightsong Enforcer 10 Mage: Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 Cleric: Rogue 1/Cloistered Cleric 6/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Contemplative 4 Missing Warrior Rogue: Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2/Invisible Blade 5/Nightsong Enforcer 10 Mage: Warblade 1/Wizard 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4 Cleric: Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Fist of Raziel 5 Missing Mage: Warrior: Warblade 1/Wizard 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4 Rogue: Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 Cleric: Cleric 5/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 10/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3 Missing Cleric Warrior: Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Fist of Raziel 5 Rogue: Rogue 1/Cloistered Cleric 6/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Contemplative 4 Mage: Druid 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 3
kabof 01-17-07, 12:40 PM	Go go Team Cleric! Kobold Cloistered Cleric 20 (Trickery and Kobold domains), Human Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/Divine Disciple 5 (Spell and Magic domains), Human Cleric 10/Radiant Servent of Pelor 10 (Sun and any other domain). All of them are pretty good fighters (thanks to DMM: Persistent) and are better than any multiclass PrC combination, I think.
amalcon 01-17-07, 01:04 PM	What's with all the Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2's? Swashbuckler 2 is kind of like Fighter 3 -- it really doesn't give much; the next level is where it's at. It seems like you'd always be better off with either Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3 or Rogue 3/Fighter 2, depending on whether you'd prefer Int to damage or skill points + feats. That said, this can be easily done with just the SRD. Missing Rogue: - Cleric 20 (Trickery, Luck domains) - Rogue 1/Ranger 19 (trapfinder/warrior) - Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster (mage/knowledge) Missing Warrior: - Rogue 16/Ranger 2/[Fighter 2 or Paladin 2] - Cleric 20 (War and Strength) or Druid 20 (already a good warrior) - Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/... or Bard 20 Missing Mage: - Rogue 1/Bard 19 - Cleric 20 (Magic and Travel) - Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/... Missing Cleric: You actually can't do this one, because anything hybrid-ed with a Cleric is just a Cleric with the right domains. From an optimization perspective, you don't need to. That said, you could kind of hack it with a Paladin, a Rogue-Bard, and a Mystic Theurge... Of course, there's a clear order of power here. The missing Rogue is weakest due to reliance on Arcane Trickster. The missing Cleric is next weakest due to reliance on Mystic Theurge. The missing Warrior and Mage are both fairly comparable, but I think missing Mage is better because the Cleric has Travel domain.
Timespike 01-17-07, 01:32 PM	What's with all the Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2's? Daring Outlaw feat. ;)
Kuroi Kenshi 01-17-07, 02:08 PM	I think Crusader is better than Warblade on JPM gish builds, since crusaders have the best defensive school, Devoted Spirit, and gish tend to suck on the defense end early on. Plus their recovery mechanic is better than Warblades. And the int to reflex saves from Warblades is capped by Warblade levels. Crusaders also get more maneuvers from a 1 level dip than Warblades do. I think you'd only want to take Warblade if you intended to use a few weapon-specific feats so you could make use of their weapon familiarity from time to time. Also I'm not sure if you could combine RKV with Fist of Raziel...RKV's have to follow Wee Jas as their deity, who is lawful neutral. I think it's retarded honestly, as Wee Jas is a deity that favors arcane magic, not sneaky types nor warriors, yet RKV's mix divine magic with combat with stealth. Wee Jas doesn't even have Trickery as a domain, while Boccob does (and for that matter, Boccob otherwise is a fairly similar deitiy). So if I were DMing I'd waive that requirement, but hey. Oh yeah, a decent build that can fit just almost any role would be Rogue1/Paladin2/Cleric1/Fighter1/Chameleon10/Witch Slayer5 (from the Tome of Magic) Drop a Rogue level for a Fighter level to get 16 BAB.
Timespike 01-17-07, 03:14 PM	I think Crusader is better than Warblade on JPM gish builds, since crusaders have the best defensive school, Devoted Spirit, and gish tend to suck on the defense end early on. Hard to argue with that logic. My feeling is that you're probably right, especially since JPMs get further DS maneuvers.
ksbsnowowl 01-17-07, 03:19 PM	I think Crusader is better than Warblade on JPM gish builds...Ah, but Warblade gets Intelligence to Reflex saves... (or is that not until 2nd level?)
Kuroi Kenshi 01-17-07, 05:29 PM	You get INT to reflex saves at level one IIRC, but... And the int to reflex saves from Warblades is capped by Warblade levels. So from a one level dip in Warblade, you get +1 to reflex saves.
ksbsnowowl 01-17-07, 05:31 PM	True enough, I'd missed that...
awaken_D_M_golem 01-17-07, 07:15 PM	via my usual off-the-sidewall thinking Missing Magic of Incarnum : Psion 5 / Slayer 4 / Thrallherd 10 / Necrocarnate 1 Rogue 1 / Artificer 4 / Battlesmith 5 / Ironsoul Forgemaster 10 ... (because the above two are soo sick) ... Divine Mind 20 :rolleyes: