30th level VOP Kalashtar Soulknife [Archive] - Wizards Community

30th level VOP Kalashtar Soulknife [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khan the Destroyer
11-05-05, 06:56 PM My brother is retiring his character tonight from our game, and is coming in as a 30th level Kalashtar Soulknife. This game is a little screwy. We were fighting epic CR's at level 15. So, I'm trying to help my brother optimize his character without going overboard. He has to retire his orc rager because he is too strong right now.

Anyway, most books are allowed (Core, Complete, Races of, XPH, Eberron w/Races of and Magic of, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, Draco, Heroes of Battle/Horror, Incarnum). I think that's it, though I may be forgetting some. No Dragon stuff.

Right now, I'm trying to make him a soulknife that is almost impossible to hit. The DM doesn't hand out items, almost at all. So, he is going VOP and Epic VOP(found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=398990)) has been approved.

I want to stress Combat Expertise for this character. So, here are my thoughts (note, since he is starting at level 30, the order of feats didn't rely matter, except for prerquisites):

1. Weapon Focus: Mindblade (Soulknife), Sacred Vow
2.
3. Vow of Poverty
4. Nymph's Kiss (Exalted)
5. Quickdraw
6. Combat Expertise, Speed of Thought (Soulknife), Nimbus of Light (Exalted)
7.
8. Holy Radiance (Exalted)
9. Greater Weapon Focus: Mindblade, Improved Combat Expertise
10. Gift of Faith (Exalted)
11.
12. Psionic Weapon, Intuitive Attack (Exalted)
13.
14. Sanctify Martial Strike (Exalted)
15. Deep Impact
16. Stigmata (Exalted)
17.
18. Psionic Meditation, Touch of Golden Ice (Exalted)
19.
20.
21. Epic Vow of Poverty
22. Fast Healing (VOP)
23.
24. Mind Shield, Fast Healing (VOP)
25.
26. Fast Healing (VOP)
27. Path of Shadows
28. Fast Healing (VOP)
29.
30. Dancing Shadows, Fast Healing (VOP)

I'm thinking for the first round of combat, he may use Combat Expertise and take the full -20 penalty to attack for a +20 bonus to AC. He can use Deep Impact in the first round of combat to ensure a successful hit (hopefully with Psychic Strike/Knife to the Soul). On the second round, he can use Graceful Lunge (Dancing with Shadows) to gain a +20 bonus to attack on his next melee attack. I would suggest using Combat Expertise anyway, breaking even on your attack roll and still gaining a +20 bonus to AC (if he does this with one attack, he can use his move action to regain Psychic Strike). On the third round, he can use Lingering Defense to keep the +20 bonus to AC without taking the penalty to attack. This would probably be a full attack action.

The reason for Combat Expertise is that I think his AC will be pretty high.
10 base
14 exalted
5 deflection
3 natural armor
8 defending weapon
8 thought shield
20 combat expertise

For a total of 68 without inluding the Dexterity modifier. We won't know his ability scores until the game tonight, since we have to roll in front of the DM. She has us roll 6d6, drop the lowest two. So stats are pretty high. And he will be getting a total of +12/10/8/6/6/6 to his ability scores from VOP/Epic VOP, as well as +7 from levels.

Now, I know that one measily attack (expecially from the soulknife) isn't much to write home about. However, my hope is that he will be able to occupy melee monsters with his high AC and Fast Healing. Getting the occasional attack in and using Knife to the Soul helps as well. (I know soulknives aren't really 'tanks', but in this game everyone gets max HP plus 10, and with the ability scores that we roll, we tend to have a lot of hit points.)

I know this may seem like a strange concept for a front-liner, but the idea is to occupy and outlast the enemy with a crazy high AC and a Fast Healing of 15, while the rest of the party does their own thing to bring him down.

So, does anyone have any ideas on how to make this more efficient? The game is in about 2 hours. I'll use the build as is, unless anyone can help me out before then. Thanks :).
Khazra Reborn
11-05-05, 07:23 PM Divine Ascension (Ex): Upon reaching 40th level, the ascetic is rewarded with a small measure of divine power for his faith and endurance. He gains a divine rank of 0, which grants him the following benefits:
His hit points are increased to the maximum possible for his Hit Dice.

:OMG!
I hope that you all realise the implications of this epic vow? it carries on getting better & better whilst you enhancement bonusese to stats/weapons/armour are capped. For example,at level 77 he will have another +20 to each stat and his weapon will have a 20 enhancement.

I don't know the name of the feat so i'll just ask, do you know if you have the feat which lets you add cha to damage with your soul blade? i belive its in races of ebberon. I also know it's somewhere on the wizards site. If you can, take it.
Also, i'd play a paladin4/soulknife26 to get more use out of cha & 16 BaB.
PhoenixInferno
11-05-05, 08:15 PM You still can't fly...
Khan the Destroyer
11-05-05, 09:12 PM :OMG!
I hope that you all realise the implications of this epic vow? it carries on getting better & better whilst you enhancement bonusese to stats/weapons/armour are capped. For example,at level 77 he will have another +20 to each stat and his weapon will have a 20 enhancement.
I don't think the campaign is going to reach that level :). Either way, she has allowed it.
I don't know the name of the feat so i'll just ask, do you know if you have the feat which lets you add cha to damage with your soul blade? i belive its in races of ebberon. I also know it's somewhere on the wizards site. If you can, take it.
Also, i'd play a paladin4/soulknife26 to get more use out of cha & 16 BaB.
Good point. I'll go over this with my brother. It might help to make those attacks a little tougher, adding charisma twice to damage (with Divine Might). Thanks.
You still can't fly...
Short of getting a race with a LA, I don't see how he could fly anyways. As I said, magic items are barely given out. As in, we are epic and don't even have the wealth of a 10th level character (I don't know for sure what the wealth is equal to, but I doubt it is even close to 10th level). Besides, I'm the wizard in the group, I'll take care of people that need to fly.
rilem
11-05-05, 09:57 PM Short of getting a race with a LA, I don't see how he could fly anyways.

Psionics or Incarnum would both solve that issue. You really should build some War Mind levels into this guy as well, as the Kalashtar Sub levels work well with Sweeping Strike and the racial bonus Power Points will provide plenty of uses of Hustle (to recharge your mind blade).

I assume you've looked at Carnivore's VOP soulknives? He's got about a half-dozen of them on Todd's Soulknife thread. (Given the wealth issues, I'm not sure if they will work for you, however, as they assume a late-game VOP).
Cytokinesis
11-05-05, 10:06 PM Actually Incarnum can't exactly solve it, Incarnum will grant him some flying but he needs to be on solid land at the end of it. Not that it isn't useful, just no aerial battles in any case.
rilem
11-05-05, 10:33 PM While that's true of some soulmelds (Airstep sandals, the totem bind of Pegasus Cloak) not all the soulmelds include such a caveat.

The Waist Chakra of the Manticore Belt and the Shoulders Bind of the Pegasus Cloak both allow basic flying, without the must-be-on-a-solid-surface warning.

Both have relatively poor mobility and slow speed, so you won't be using either much in dogfights, but they're useful in a pinch.
Cytokinesis
11-05-05, 11:14 PM Since he's epic he could get the Open soul chakra feat and the Shape soulmeld (Incarnum avatar). As long as he is Neutral good he gets 30 feet good manuverability.
Antendren
11-05-05, 11:28 PM If you're interested in another +9 to AC, you could grap Shield of Thought from Races of Eberron. He could transfer his entire mind blade bonus to it, since it's overlapping with VoP anyway.
Nazzareth
11-06-05, 03:40 AM Duelist levels work well with the dancing with shadows feat, adding your duelist level to AC while the fighting defensively can turn into an attack bonus with the graceful lunge maneuver, which in turn will aid the psychic strike ability. Duelist levels taken before epic will give you a BAB of 17. You will gain 13 AC for -4 to hit with ten duelist levels.

I'm thinking for the first round of combat, he may use Combat Expertise and take the full -20 penalty to attack for a +20 bonus to AC
You can't quite do this.

Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack, the max you can gain from the improved combat expertise feat is +15 AC at 30th level soul knife. If you had 10 levels of duelist BAB would be higher and you can combine fighting defensively and improved combat expretise for +30 AC.

Ask your DM for a custom feat that can turn your soulblade into a broadblade short sword which will net you another +2 AC for fighting defensively (maybe instead of bastard sword ability).

You also gain 2d6 damage to your soul blade if it is in a short sword form thanks to duelist 10.

If you prefer the bastard sword sized soul blade one level of exotic weapon master for uncanny blow and take power attack and leap attack feat to get the most out of graceful lunge.

There is also the allied defense feat which gives you combat expertise AC bonus to all adjacent allies.
Antendren
11-06-05, 11:02 AM Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack,According to the FAQ, it does. On page 13 they're discussing Improved Manyshot, but the response says, "Your epic attack bonus improves you base attack bonus for all purposes except your number of attacks with the full attack action."
Khan the Destroyer
11-06-05, 01:06 PM The flying bit isn't a big deal, since I buff the party.
If you're interested in another +9 to AC, you could grap Shield of Thought from Races of Eberron. He could transfer his entire mind blade bonus to it, since it's overlapping with VoP anyway.
I must have gotten the name wrong. That is the 'Mind Shield' feat I have written down in my original post. I've taken the enhancement bonus into effect. It was another perk of the VOP feat :).

Duelist levels work well with the dancing with shadows feat, adding your duelist level to AC while the fighting defensively can turn into an attack bonus with the graceful lunge maneuver, which in turn will aid the psychic strike ability. Duelist levels taken before epic will give you a BAB of 17. You will gain 13 AC for -4 to hit with ten duelist levels.
I'll run this by him. My brother loves dueling/swashbuckling characters. The only thing is, this guy is kind of strapped for feats. The DM is allowing flaws from Unearthed Arcana though, so that's a possibility.
You can't quite do this.

Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack, the max you can gain from the improved combat expertise feat is +15 AC at 30th level soul knife.
Where does it say this? From my understanding, your BAB still goes up, just at a fixed rate (and you can never gain more attacks after level 20). Otherwise, how would characters qualify for prestige classes like the Legendary Dreadnought? It requires BAB 23.

I am seriously considering the 4 levels in Paladin. Divine Grace will add to the defensive nature of the character. Divine Might will make his attacks hit a little harder (and I would definately nab Psiritual Force if I went this route). Divine Shield will make his AC go up even higher. And he gets 1 more point of BAB in.

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.
Nazzareth
11-06-05, 03:26 PM Where does it say this? From my understanding, your BAB still goes up, just at a fixed rate (and you can never gain more attacks after level 20). Otherwise, how would characters qualify for prestige classes like the Legendary Dreadnought? It requires BAB 23. sorry I am wrong forgot the last part of description.

Epic Attack Bonus: Similarly, the character’s base attack bonus does not increase after character level reaches 20th. However, the character does receive a cumulative +1 epic bonus on all attacks at every odd-numbered level beyond 20th, as shown on Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses. Any time a feat, prestige class, or other rule refers to your base attack bonus, use the sum of your base attack bonus and epic attack bonus.Yay continue as planned.

Here are some class combos to consider

For single short sword soulknife
Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Duelist 10/SoulKnife 9

For a TWF short sword soulknife
Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Tempest 4/Master thrower 5/ SoulKnife 10
or
Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Tempest 4/Dervish 10/ SoulKnife 5
or
SoulKnife 10/Tempest 5/master thrower 5/SoulKnife 10

For bastard sword soulknife
Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Dervish 10/SoulKnife 9
or
SoulKnife 10/Dervish 10/Exotic weapons master 1/ SoulKnife 9

Reasons for classes
Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5: give you flurry with soulblade, 2 extra attacks at full BAB.

Dervish: Dervish dance & Elaborate parry.

Master Thrower: Two with one blow & Weak spot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khan the Destroyer 11-05-05, 06:56 PM	My brother is retiring his character tonight from our game, and is coming in as a 30th level Kalashtar Soulknife. This game is a little screwy. We were fighting epic CR's at level 15. So, I'm trying to help my brother optimize his character without going overboard. He has to retire his orc rager because he is too strong right now. Anyway, most books are allowed (Core, Complete, Races of, XPH, Eberron w/Races of and Magic of, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, Draco, Heroes of Battle/Horror, Incarnum). I think that's it, though I may be forgetting some. No Dragon stuff. Right now, I'm trying to make him a soulknife that is almost impossible to hit. The DM doesn't hand out items, almost at all. So, he is going VOP and Epic VOP(found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=398990)) has been approved. I want to stress Combat Expertise for this character. So, here are my thoughts (note, since he is starting at level 30, the order of feats didn't rely matter, except for prerquisites): 1. Weapon Focus: Mindblade (Soulknife), Sacred Vow 2. 3. Vow of Poverty 4. Nymph's Kiss (Exalted) 5. Quickdraw 6. Combat Expertise, Speed of Thought (Soulknife), Nimbus of Light (Exalted) 7. 8. Holy Radiance (Exalted) 9. Greater Weapon Focus: Mindblade, Improved Combat Expertise 10. Gift of Faith (Exalted) 11. 12. Psionic Weapon, Intuitive Attack (Exalted) 13. 14. Sanctify Martial Strike (Exalted) 15. Deep Impact 16. Stigmata (Exalted) 17. 18. Psionic Meditation, Touch of Golden Ice (Exalted) 19. 20. 21. Epic Vow of Poverty 22. Fast Healing (VOP) 23. 24. Mind Shield, Fast Healing (VOP) 25. 26. Fast Healing (VOP) 27. Path of Shadows 28. Fast Healing (VOP) 29. 30. Dancing Shadows, Fast Healing (VOP) I'm thinking for the first round of combat, he may use Combat Expertise and take the full -20 penalty to attack for a +20 bonus to AC. He can use Deep Impact in the first round of combat to ensure a successful hit (hopefully with Psychic Strike/Knife to the Soul). On the second round, he can use Graceful Lunge (Dancing with Shadows) to gain a +20 bonus to attack on his next melee attack. I would suggest using Combat Expertise anyway, breaking even on your attack roll and still gaining a +20 bonus to AC (if he does this with one attack, he can use his move action to regain Psychic Strike). On the third round, he can use Lingering Defense to keep the +20 bonus to AC without taking the penalty to attack. This would probably be a full attack action. The reason for Combat Expertise is that I think his AC will be pretty high. 10 base 14 exalted 5 deflection 3 natural armor 8 defending weapon 8 thought shield 20 combat expertise For a total of 68 without inluding the Dexterity modifier. We won't know his ability scores until the game tonight, since we have to roll in front of the DM. She has us roll 6d6, drop the lowest two. So stats are pretty high. And he will be getting a total of +12/10/8/6/6/6 to his ability scores from VOP/Epic VOP, as well as +7 from levels. Now, I know that one measily attack (expecially from the soulknife) isn't much to write home about. However, my hope is that he will be able to occupy melee monsters with his high AC and Fast Healing. Getting the occasional attack in and using Knife to the Soul helps as well. (I know soulknives aren't really 'tanks', but in this game everyone gets max HP plus 10, and with the ability scores that we roll, we tend to have a lot of hit points.) I know this may seem like a strange concept for a front-liner, but the idea is to occupy and outlast the enemy with a crazy high AC and a Fast Healing of 15, while the rest of the party does their own thing to bring him down. So, does anyone have any ideas on how to make this more efficient? The game is in about 2 hours. I'll use the build as is, unless anyone can help me out before then. Thanks :).
Khazra Reborn 11-05-05, 07:23 PM	Divine Ascension (Ex): Upon reaching 40th level, the ascetic is rewarded with a small measure of divine power for his faith and endurance. He gains a divine rank of 0, which grants him the following benefits: His hit points are increased to the maximum possible for his Hit Dice. :OMG! I hope that you all realise the implications of this epic vow? it carries on getting better & better whilst you enhancement bonusese to stats/weapons/armour are capped. For example,at level 77 he will have another +20 to each stat and his weapon will have a 20 enhancement. I don't know the name of the feat so i'll just ask, do you know if you have the feat which lets you add cha to damage with your soul blade? i belive its in races of ebberon. I also know it's somewhere on the wizards site. If you can, take it. Also, i'd play a paladin4/soulknife26 to get more use out of cha & 16 BaB.
PhoenixInferno 11-05-05, 08:15 PM	You still can't fly...
Khan the Destroyer 11-05-05, 09:12 PM	:OMG! I hope that you all realise the implications of this epic vow? it carries on getting better & better whilst you enhancement bonusese to stats/weapons/armour are capped. For example,at level 77 he will have another +20 to each stat and his weapon will have a 20 enhancement. I don't think the campaign is going to reach that level :). Either way, she has allowed it. I don't know the name of the feat so i'll just ask, do you know if you have the feat which lets you add cha to damage with your soul blade? i belive its in races of ebberon. I also know it's somewhere on the wizards site. If you can, take it. Also, i'd play a paladin4/soulknife26 to get more use out of cha & 16 BaB. Good point. I'll go over this with my brother. It might help to make those attacks a little tougher, adding charisma twice to damage (with Divine Might). Thanks. You still can't fly... Short of getting a race with a LA, I don't see how he could fly anyways. As I said, magic items are barely given out. As in, we are epic and don't even have the wealth of a 10th level character (I don't know for sure what the wealth is equal to, but I doubt it is even close to 10th level). Besides, I'm the wizard in the group, I'll take care of people that need to fly.
rilem 11-05-05, 09:57 PM	Short of getting a race with a LA, I don't see how he could fly anyways. Psionics or Incarnum would both solve that issue. You really should build some War Mind levels into this guy as well, as the Kalashtar Sub levels work well with Sweeping Strike and the racial bonus Power Points will provide plenty of uses of Hustle (to recharge your mind blade). I assume you've looked at Carnivore's VOP soulknives? He's got about a half-dozen of them on Todd's Soulknife thread. (Given the wealth issues, I'm not sure if they will work for you, however, as they assume a late-game VOP).
Cytokinesis 11-05-05, 10:06 PM	Actually Incarnum can't exactly solve it, Incarnum will grant him some flying but he needs to be on solid land at the end of it. Not that it isn't useful, just no aerial battles in any case.
rilem 11-05-05, 10:33 PM	While that's true of some soulmelds (Airstep sandals, the totem bind of Pegasus Cloak) not all the soulmelds include such a caveat. The Waist Chakra of the Manticore Belt and the Shoulders Bind of the Pegasus Cloak both allow basic flying, without the must-be-on-a-solid-surface warning. Both have relatively poor mobility and slow speed, so you won't be using either much in dogfights, but they're useful in a pinch.
Cytokinesis 11-05-05, 11:14 PM	Since he's epic he could get the Open soul chakra feat and the Shape soulmeld (Incarnum avatar). As long as he is Neutral good he gets 30 feet good manuverability.
Antendren 11-05-05, 11:28 PM	If you're interested in another +9 to AC, you could grap Shield of Thought from Races of Eberron. He could transfer his entire mind blade bonus to it, since it's overlapping with VoP anyway.
Nazzareth 11-06-05, 03:40 AM	Duelist levels work well with the dancing with shadows feat, adding your duelist level to AC while the fighting defensively can turn into an attack bonus with the graceful lunge maneuver, which in turn will aid the psychic strike ability. Duelist levels taken before epic will give you a BAB of 17. You will gain 13 AC for -4 to hit with ten duelist levels. I'm thinking for the first round of combat, he may use Combat Expertise and take the full -20 penalty to attack for a +20 bonus to AC You can't quite do this. Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack, the max you can gain from the improved combat expertise feat is +15 AC at 30th level soul knife. If you had 10 levels of duelist BAB would be higher and you can combine fighting defensively and improved combat expretise for +30 AC. Ask your DM for a custom feat that can turn your soulblade into a broadblade short sword which will net you another +2 AC for fighting defensively (maybe instead of bastard sword ability). You also gain 2d6 damage to your soul blade if it is in a short sword form thanks to duelist 10. If you prefer the bastard sword sized soul blade one level of exotic weapon master for uncanny blow and take power attack and leap attack feat to get the most out of graceful lunge. There is also the allied defense feat which gives you combat expertise AC bonus to all adjacent allies.
Antendren 11-06-05, 11:02 AM	Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack,According to the FAQ, it does. On page 13 they're discussing Improved Manyshot, but the response says, "Your epic attack bonus improves you base attack bonus for all purposes except your number of attacks with the full attack action."
Khan the Destroyer 11-06-05, 01:06 PM	The flying bit isn't a big deal, since I buff the party. If you're interested in another +9 to AC, you could grap Shield of Thought from Races of Eberron. He could transfer his entire mind blade bonus to it, since it's overlapping with VoP anyway. I must have gotten the name wrong. That is the 'Mind Shield' feat I have written down in my original post. I've taken the enhancement bonus into effect. It was another perk of the VOP feat :). Duelist levels work well with the dancing with shadows feat, adding your duelist level to AC while the fighting defensively can turn into an attack bonus with the graceful lunge maneuver, which in turn will aid the psychic strike ability. Duelist levels taken before epic will give you a BAB of 17. You will gain 13 AC for -4 to hit with ten duelist levels. I'll run this by him. My brother loves dueling/swashbuckling characters. The only thing is, this guy is kind of strapped for feats. The DM is allowing flaws from Unearthed Arcana though, so that's a possibility. You can't quite do this. Remember your BAB stops increasing past epic and the epic bonus to BAB is a bonus and does not count towards combat expertise or power attack, the max you can gain from the improved combat expertise feat is +15 AC at 30th level soul knife. Where does it say this? From my understanding, your BAB still goes up, just at a fixed rate (and you can never gain more attacks after level 20). Otherwise, how would characters qualify for prestige classes like the Legendary Dreadnought? It requires BAB 23. I am seriously considering the 4 levels in Paladin. Divine Grace will add to the defensive nature of the character. Divine Might will make his attacks hit a little harder (and I would definately nab Psiritual Force if I went this route). Divine Shield will make his AC go up even higher. And he gets 1 more point of BAB in. Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.
Nazzareth 11-06-05, 03:26 PM	Where does it say this? From my understanding, your BAB still goes up, just at a fixed rate (and you can never gain more attacks after level 20). Otherwise, how would characters qualify for prestige classes like the Legendary Dreadnought? It requires BAB 23. sorry I am wrong forgot the last part of description. Epic Attack Bonus: Similarly, the character’s base attack bonus does not increase after character level reaches 20th. However, the character does receive a cumulative +1 epic bonus on all attacks at every odd-numbered level beyond 20th, as shown on Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses. Any time a feat, prestige class, or other rule refers to your base attack bonus, use the sum of your base attack bonus and epic attack bonus.Yay continue as planned. Here are some class combos to consider For single short sword soulknife Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Duelist 10/SoulKnife 9 For a TWF short sword soulknife Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Tempest 4/Master thrower 5/ SoulKnife 10 or Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Tempest 4/Dervish 10/ SoulKnife 5 or SoulKnife 10/Tempest 5/master thrower 5/SoulKnife 10 For bastard sword soulknife Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Dervish 10/SoulKnife 9 or SoulKnife 10/Dervish 10/Exotic weapons master 1/ SoulKnife 9 Reasons for classes Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5: give you flurry with soulblade, 2 extra attacks at full BAB. Dervish: Dervish dance & Elaborate parry. Master Thrower: Two with one blow & Weak spot.