33 AC at ECL 3 MONK!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

33 AC at ECL 3 MONK!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
McBAMF
05-03-05, 07:03 PM Ok, first off I want to mention that this build is for not getting hit and not for attack damage. This is not a full build to 20 so dont get mad. This is just a build to keep you from getting hit. The only books I used were the MM, PHB, and BoED.

Race LizardFolk +1LA
+5 natural AC
Racial feat/ Sacred Vow

1 Monk/ wis to AC/ Vow of Poverty +4 Exalted AC and bonus exalted feat at 1 and 2, Vow of Nonviolence (prereq for Vow of Peace)
2 Monk/ Vow of Peace +2 natural AC, +2 Deflection AC, +2 Exalted AC

If you have 18 dex and 18 wis your AC looks something like this.
5 natural AC + wis/dex 8 + VoPov 4 + VoPeace 6 = 23
base 10+23 = 33

If you are willing to sacrifice personal possessions and real damage this is a pretty good build.
Matt Neuman
05-03-05, 07:27 PM Lizardfolk have 2 racial HD, so they are ECL 3 before adding any classes.
Nuntius128
05-03-05, 07:34 PM Lizardfolk have 2 racial HD, so they are ECL 3 before adding any classes.

Owned. Nicely put.
Mommy was an Orc
05-03-05, 07:42 PM Not to mention, you need three feats - Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty...
McBAMF
05-03-05, 07:47 PM Sorry, about that. I did this pretty quickly. The reason I posted this was to see if there were any problems with it.
Matt Neuman
05-03-05, 07:53 PM Er...

The link you provided disproves what you are trying to say:

From the Core Colosium Thread (I removed the other races for clarity):

Level Racial Starting Starting Credit
Race Adj. Hit Dice Class Lvl
Lizardfolk +1 2 0
McBAMF
05-03-05, 07:55 PM Sorry Matt, you posted while I was editing.
DarkJester
05-03-05, 08:06 PM Another pretty low level option:

To take a page from Savage Species broken anthromorphic races,
Anthromorphic Baleen Whale Monk 1 ECL 4
22 Wis, 22 Dex +9 Natural Armor

10 +6 + 6 +9 -1 Size = 30
He'll also smash things really well being large sized and having a +8 to strength.
DisposableHero_
05-03-05, 08:07 PM try this version:

Human base

1 Monk1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty
2 PsyWar1 Vow of Nonviolence (VoP bonus Exalted), Dodge (Bonus PsyWar), Power: Force Screen
3 PsyWar2 Vow of Peace, Psionic Dodge (Bonus PsyWar), Power: Compression

With base 18 dexterity 18 wisdom:

AC = 10 base +2 Natural (Vow of Peace), +2 Deflection (Vow of Peace), +2 Exalted (Vow of Peace), +5 Exalted (Vow of Poverty), +1 Dodge (Dodge), +1 Dodge (Psionic Dodge), +5 (Dexterity 18 + 2 [compression]), +1 size (compression), +4 (wisdom) +4 Shield (Force Screen) = 37
LaneDreast
05-03-05, 09:12 PM Remember that if you can take vow of poverty at level 1, you can gain a first level feat. Another addition could be strongheart halfling instead of human, for a couple more points of ac.
DisposableHero_
05-03-05, 09:44 PM Remember that if you can take vow of poverty at level 1, you can gain a first level feat. Another addition could be strongheart halfling instead of human, for a couple more points of ac.

Wow you're right, I wonder why that isn't reflected in the table on the next page. I think you could probably hit AC 40.
I also forgot that you can get 5 ranks in tumble and get +6 AC from the total defense action, so what is that now, 45 + and open feat?
LaneDreast
05-03-05, 10:33 PM Because the only ones who could pull off vow of poverty at first level are humans. BUt if that's the case, I'm not sure why they included the second level bonus feat except as pattern froo froo.
Warlord Griffin
05-03-05, 10:47 PM In the Book of Exalted Deeds it clearly says in the vow of peace description that if you take the vow of peace and have the vow of poverty all three defensive bonuses to ac increase by +2 so
instead of this
+2 Natural, +2 Deflection, +2 Exalted
you have this
+4 Natural, +4 Deflection, +4 Exalted

ah peace, poverty and goodness, you want to see how to really abuse the combo of vow of poverty and vow of peace check out my builds

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=420816
McBAMF
05-04-05, 02:00 AM Yeah those feats are pretty awesome but they have alot of draw backs.
Zeffan the Fighting Man
05-04-05, 02:20 PM I've got a third level monk (humna) with VoP, Wis 18, Dex 16, and the party wizard drops a mage armor spell, a sheild spell on me before combat, my AC is close....I'd love to hear how to push my VoP character's AC through the roof...

My DM is gunning for me.

Z
Aramek
05-04-05, 03:12 PM Actually, unless one of you young chaps cites where I'm mistaken...

One can vountarily drop Racial HD.
For instance, A minotaur is +2 LA, and, what is it...6 HD?

Base Minotaur, would be an 8th level character.
However, you could lose the Racial HD, (And ergo the saves, skills, and BAB you'd get), and just use class levels instead.

The Same Minotaur could be a Mage.
6 Wizard with a +2 LA. This would be the same 8th level character.

Again, I remember reading this, and if not, please show me elsewhere. This is always how we have done it. Especially with those creatures with insanely high LA.

Illithid as a player?! That +7 LA and 8 HD would be a HUGE drawback to any character. As cool as Illithids are, would you say that the sample Illithid on the MM equates to a 15th level PC?
lonewolf
05-04-05, 03:39 PM @Aramek:
You are mistaken.
you cannot just "lose" those racial Hitdice, Its part of their balance.

about the Illithid: just use the psionic Illithid from the XPH instead. Its worth the ECL 15
PhaedrusXY
05-04-05, 03:58 PM I've got a third level monk (humna) with VoP, Wis 18, Dex 16, and the party wizard drops a mage armor spell, a sheild spell on me before combat, my AC is close....I'd love to hear how to push my VoP character's AC through the roof...

My DM is gunning for me.

ZThe Shield Spell is range Personal. So unless your mage buddy has some trick I don't know about (or forgot), he can't cast Shield on you.
necrosnoop110
05-04-05, 05:11 PM @Aramek:
You are mistaken.
you cannot just "lose" those racial Hitdice, Its part of their balance.
Maybe he is confusing the bit about creatures with 1HD can drop there HD in lue of a class level? Like if you wanted to have a PC Goblin Fighter you could drop it's 1HD for Fighter 1.
Warlord Griffin
05-04-05, 08:39 PM Just check out my apostle of peace build in the link in my signature, by the end of the build 62 armor class without polymorph any object being cast on you and armor around 80 if you polymorph along with 9th level spells, evasion, draconic cohorts, oh it is good times.
primetimekiller
05-05-05, 02:01 AM Anthromorphic Baleen Whale

i read a lot of those in the last time in the boards "Anthromorphic" how do they look like?
i quess they are in savage species?
do they look human?
or animal head and humen body or what is this supposed to be
ShiverTheBard
05-05-05, 03:19 AM ECL 3 Character Githzerai Monk 1
(Warning: this build uses Flaws from Unearthed Arcana)

With 15 into Dex, the dex becomes 21. Put also a 15 into Wis to maximize AC, this brings it to 17 from Racial. As well, the Githzerai get a free Inertial Armor effect thus making armor useless. Take the flaws Shaky (-2 to ranged) and Blurry-eyed (rolls % for concealment twice, have to pass both). This gives him four feats at level one.

Take EWP: Broadblade Shortsword, this grants +2 AC when fighting defensively. Take TWF so you can use two. Take Two Weapon Defense, granting a further +2 AC when fighting defensively.

Take the fight defensively Action and this rounds out to:
+4 Inertial Armor
+5 Dex bonus
+3 Wis bonus
+2 Fighting Defensively
+2 Broadblade Shortsword
+2 Broadblade Shortsword
+2 TWD
20+10 base = 30 AC for taking -4 to attack rolls at level 3.

All without using the hoky Vow of Poverty and Vow of Peace which are obviously broken beyond repair. If I wanted to, I could build a character at level 6 with those feats with an AC in the 60's without breaking a sweat. Any joe blow can use those feats by try getting a high AC without such feats, I dare you.
gabrion
05-05-05, 03:38 AM Just cause it sounds so enticing....could you show me how to do the 6th lvl 60 AC build? Not that I want to disrail the thread, but I'd like to see how to do that.
Kintara
05-05-05, 04:00 AM If you like lizardfolk, why not go with the Poison Dusk lizzies in MM3? Less Natural Armor, but Small, with more Dex.
Ungar
06-04-05, 03:56 AM where can i find this famous Broadblade Shortsword?

thanks for your answer.
Ungar
06-07-05, 12:17 AM where?so? anyone knows where can i find this blade? or perhaps it is in a dragon mag?

thanks
Zeffan the Fighting Man
06-07-05, 12:40 AM where?so? anyone knows where can i find this blade? or perhaps it is in a dragon mag?

thanks

Complete Adventurer, I believe... :confused:

Zeff
Garret Lightfoot
06-07-05, 01:10 AM ECL 3 Character Githzerai Monk 1
(Warning: this build uses Flaws from Unearthed Arcana)

With 15 into Dex, the dex becomes 21. Put also a 15 into Wis to maximize AC, this brings it to 17 from Racial. As well, the Githzerai get a free Inertial Armor effect thus making armor useless.

Well, 3 times a day they get that power... Unless the XPH has an errata that changes it back to the way it reads in the MM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McBAMF 05-03-05, 07:03 PM	Ok, first off I want to mention that this build is for not getting hit and not for attack damage. This is not a full build to 20 so dont get mad. This is just a build to keep you from getting hit. The only books I used were the MM, PHB, and BoED. Race LizardFolk +1LA +5 natural AC Racial feat/ Sacred Vow 1 Monk/ wis to AC/ Vow of Poverty +4 Exalted AC and bonus exalted feat at 1 and 2, Vow of Nonviolence (prereq for Vow of Peace) 2 Monk/ Vow of Peace +2 natural AC, +2 Deflection AC, +2 Exalted AC If you have 18 dex and 18 wis your AC looks something like this. 5 natural AC + wis/dex 8 + VoPov 4 + VoPeace 6 = 23 base 10+23 = 33 If you are willing to sacrifice personal possessions and real damage this is a pretty good build.
Matt Neuman 05-03-05, 07:27 PM	Lizardfolk have 2 racial HD, so they are ECL 3 before adding any classes.
Nuntius128 05-03-05, 07:34 PM	Lizardfolk have 2 racial HD, so they are ECL 3 before adding any classes. Owned. Nicely put.
Mommy was an Orc 05-03-05, 07:42 PM	Not to mention, you need three feats - Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty...
McBAMF 05-03-05, 07:47 PM	Sorry, about that. I did this pretty quickly. The reason I posted this was to see if there were any problems with it.
Matt Neuman 05-03-05, 07:53 PM	Er... The link you provided disproves what you are trying to say: From the Core Colosium Thread (I removed the other races for clarity): Level Racial Starting Starting Credit Race Adj. Hit Dice Class Lvl Lizardfolk +1 2 0
McBAMF 05-03-05, 07:55 PM	Sorry Matt, you posted while I was editing.
DarkJester 05-03-05, 08:06 PM	Another pretty low level option: To take a page from Savage Species broken anthromorphic races, Anthromorphic Baleen Whale Monk 1 ECL 4 22 Wis, 22 Dex +9 Natural Armor 10 +6 + 6 +9 -1 Size = 30 He'll also smash things really well being large sized and having a +8 to strength.
DisposableHero_ 05-03-05, 08:07 PM	try this version: Human base 1 Monk1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty 2 PsyWar1 Vow of Nonviolence (VoP bonus Exalted), Dodge (Bonus PsyWar), Power: Force Screen 3 PsyWar2 Vow of Peace, Psionic Dodge (Bonus PsyWar), Power: Compression With base 18 dexterity 18 wisdom: AC = 10 base +2 Natural (Vow of Peace), +2 Deflection (Vow of Peace), +2 Exalted (Vow of Peace), +5 Exalted (Vow of Poverty), +1 Dodge (Dodge), +1 Dodge (Psionic Dodge), +5 (Dexterity 18 + 2 [compression]), +1 size (compression), +4 (wisdom) +4 Shield (Force Screen) = 37
LaneDreast 05-03-05, 09:12 PM	Remember that if you can take vow of poverty at level 1, you can gain a first level feat. Another addition could be strongheart halfling instead of human, for a couple more points of ac.
DisposableHero_ 05-03-05, 09:44 PM	Remember that if you can take vow of poverty at level 1, you can gain a first level feat. Another addition could be strongheart halfling instead of human, for a couple more points of ac. Wow you're right, I wonder why that isn't reflected in the table on the next page. I think you could probably hit AC 40. I also forgot that you can get 5 ranks in tumble and get +6 AC from the total defense action, so what is that now, 45 + and open feat?
LaneDreast 05-03-05, 10:33 PM	Because the only ones who could pull off vow of poverty at first level are humans. BUt if that's the case, I'm not sure why they included the second level bonus feat except as pattern froo froo.
Warlord Griffin 05-03-05, 10:47 PM	In the Book of Exalted Deeds it clearly says in the vow of peace description that if you take the vow of peace and have the vow of poverty all three defensive bonuses to ac increase by +2 so instead of this +2 Natural, +2 Deflection, +2 Exalted you have this +4 Natural, +4 Deflection, +4 Exalted ah peace, poverty and goodness, you want to see how to really abuse the combo of vow of poverty and vow of peace check out my builds http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=420816
McBAMF 05-04-05, 02:00 AM	Yeah those feats are pretty awesome but they have alot of draw backs.
Zeffan the Fighting Man 05-04-05, 02:20 PM	I've got a third level monk (humna) with VoP, Wis 18, Dex 16, and the party wizard drops a mage armor spell, a sheild spell on me before combat, my AC is close....I'd love to hear how to push my VoP character's AC through the roof... My DM is gunning for me. Z
Aramek 05-04-05, 03:12 PM	Actually, unless one of you young chaps cites where I'm mistaken... One can vountarily drop Racial HD. For instance, A minotaur is +2 LA, and, what is it...6 HD? Base Minotaur, would be an 8th level character. However, you could lose the Racial HD, (And ergo the saves, skills, and BAB you'd get), and just use class levels instead. The Same Minotaur could be a Mage. 6 Wizard with a +2 LA. This would be the same 8th level character. Again, I remember reading this, and if not, please show me elsewhere. This is always how we have done it. Especially with those creatures with insanely high LA. Illithid as a player?! That +7 LA and 8 HD would be a HUGE drawback to any character. As cool as Illithids are, would you say that the sample Illithid on the MM equates to a 15th level PC?
lonewolf 05-04-05, 03:39 PM	@Aramek: You are mistaken. you cannot just "lose" those racial Hitdice, Its part of their balance. about the Illithid: just use the psionic Illithid from the XPH instead. Its worth the ECL 15
PhaedrusXY 05-04-05, 03:58 PM	I've got a third level monk (humna) with VoP, Wis 18, Dex 16, and the party wizard drops a mage armor spell, a sheild spell on me before combat, my AC is close....I'd love to hear how to push my VoP character's AC through the roof... My DM is gunning for me. ZThe Shield Spell is range Personal. So unless your mage buddy has some trick I don't know about (or forgot), he can't cast Shield on you.
necrosnoop110 05-04-05, 05:11 PM	@Aramek: You are mistaken. you cannot just "lose" those racial Hitdice, Its part of their balance. Maybe he is confusing the bit about creatures with 1HD can drop there HD in lue of a class level? Like if you wanted to have a PC Goblin Fighter you could drop it's 1HD for Fighter 1.
Warlord Griffin 05-04-05, 08:39 PM	Just check out my apostle of peace build in the link in my signature, by the end of the build 62 armor class without polymorph any object being cast on you and armor around 80 if you polymorph along with 9th level spells, evasion, draconic cohorts, oh it is good times.
primetimekiller 05-05-05, 02:01 AM	Anthromorphic Baleen Whale i read a lot of those in the last time in the boards "Anthromorphic" how do they look like? i quess they are in savage species? do they look human? or animal head and humen body or what is this supposed to be
ShiverTheBard 05-05-05, 03:19 AM	ECL 3 Character Githzerai Monk 1 (Warning: this build uses Flaws from Unearthed Arcana) With 15 into Dex, the dex becomes 21. Put also a 15 into Wis to maximize AC, this brings it to 17 from Racial. As well, the Githzerai get a free Inertial Armor effect thus making armor useless. Take the flaws Shaky (-2 to ranged) and Blurry-eyed (rolls % for concealment twice, have to pass both). This gives him four feats at level one. Take EWP: Broadblade Shortsword, this grants +2 AC when fighting defensively. Take TWF so you can use two. Take Two Weapon Defense, granting a further +2 AC when fighting defensively. Take the fight defensively Action and this rounds out to: +4 Inertial Armor +5 Dex bonus +3 Wis bonus +2 Fighting Defensively +2 Broadblade Shortsword +2 Broadblade Shortsword +2 TWD 20+10 base = 30 AC for taking -4 to attack rolls at level 3. All without using the hoky Vow of Poverty and Vow of Peace which are obviously broken beyond repair. If I wanted to, I could build a character at level 6 with those feats with an AC in the 60's without breaking a sweat. Any joe blow can use those feats by try getting a high AC without such feats, I dare you.
gabrion 05-05-05, 03:38 AM	Just cause it sounds so enticing....could you show me how to do the 6th lvl 60 AC build? Not that I want to disrail the thread, but I'd like to see how to do that.
Kintara 05-05-05, 04:00 AM	If you like lizardfolk, why not go with the Poison Dusk lizzies in MM3? Less Natural Armor, but Small, with more Dex.
Ungar 06-04-05, 03:56 AM	where can i find this famous Broadblade Shortsword? thanks for your answer.
Ungar 06-07-05, 12:17 AM	where?so? anyone knows where can i find this blade? or perhaps it is in a dragon mag? thanks
Zeffan the Fighting Man 06-07-05, 12:40 AM	where?so? anyone knows where can i find this blade? or perhaps it is in a dragon mag? thanks Complete Adventurer, I believe... :confused: Zeff
Garret Lightfoot 06-07-05, 01:10 AM	ECL 3 Character Githzerai Monk 1 (Warning: this build uses Flaws from Unearthed Arcana) With 15 into Dex, the dex becomes 21. Put also a 15 into Wis to maximize AC, this brings it to 17 from Racial. As well, the Githzerai get a free Inertial Armor effect thus making armor useless. Well, 3 times a day they get that power... Unless the XPH has an errata that changes it back to the way it reads in the MM.