Post/Author/DateTime	Post
carnivore 09-27-04, 08:03 AM	The New And Improved HIN HURLER There are three types, Arcane focus, Divine Focus, Martial focus All builds use a 32 point buy and are Strongheart Halflings St 8 Con 10 Dex 16 Int 16 Wis 16 Cha 8 At 20th lvl with equipment and tomes(not using belt of magnificence) St 8 Con 14 Dex 27 Int 27 Wis 27 Cha 8 The Arcane focus is as I posted before with a few modifications Sorcerer 1 militia/ combat expertise Sorcerer 2 Sorcerer 3 exotic weapon (skiprock)point blank shot Sorcerer 4 Sorcerer 5 Sorcerer 6 point blank shot EK 1 precise shot EK 2 EK 3 weapon focus(skiprock) Master thrower 1 quickdraw Master thrower 2 Master thrower 3 alertness Master thrower 4 snatch arrows Master thrower 5 EK 4 iron will EK 5 EK 6 practiced caster EK 7 EK 8 EK 9 BAB +16/+11/+6/+1 Caster level 17(18 with ioun stone) 6th level spells Attack bonus : +1 size +1(ioun stone) +1 racial (Halfling for thrown weapons) +8 wisdom(shiba protector) +8 dex +16 base +27/+22/+17/+12 will fix this later :weep: When he can use it his favorite spell is Giants Wrath found here: http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040416a&origin= so he can throw at least 1 stone /round and it gives +9 to his BAB for this attack with an enhanced stone Attack bonus = +43 range 900’(1800’ if he uses a rod of enlarge) damage = 2d8+2d6+8(shiba)+9(1/2 caster lvl)-1 str The Divine focus is as follows: Variant rogue 1 alertness/iron will/sacred vow Variant rogue 2 exotic weapon(skiprock) Ranger 1 track/point blank shot ranger 2 precise shot Fighter 1 neraph throw Fighter 2 weapon focus(skiprock) Master thrower 1 quickdraw/ vow of obedience Master thrower 2 Master thrower 3 Master thrower 4 snatch arrows/combat casting Master thrower 5 improved crit(skiprock) Nentyar hunter 1 Nentyar hunter 2 combat expertise Harper paragon 1 Harper paragon 2 favored enemy (evil) Harper paragon 3 practiced caster Foe hunter 1(evil) Foe hunter 2 (nemesis or rapid shot or insightful attack or initiate of selune) Foe hunter 3 Foe hunter 4 BAB +16/+11/+6/+1 Caster level 9(10th with ioun stone) 5th lvl spells Attack bonus : +1 size +1(ioun stone) +1 racial (Halfling for thrown weapons) +8 dex +16 base +27/+22/+17/+12 will fix this later :weep: the divine focus can probably be done better with stalker of karesh, but I wanted 5th lvl spells, this also gives SR 19 vs evil splls and DR 5/- vs evil The Martial focus is as follows Variant Rogue 1 Alertness/ iron will/ improved initiative Variant Rogue 2 combat expertise Cleric 1 weapon focus(skiprock)/ point blank shot/ precise shot Cleric 2 Fighter 1 neraph throw Fighter 2 far shot/ 2 weapon fighting Ranger 1 track Ranger 2 rapid shot Psi Warrior 1 many shot/ Psi Warrior 2 Swashbuckler 1 weapon finesse(short sword) Swashbuckler 1 improved rapid shot Swashbuckler 1 Master thrower 1 quick draw Master thrower 1 improved 2 weapon fighting Master thrower 1 Master thrower 1 snatch arrows Master thrower 1 improved crit/ greater 2 weapon fighting Exotic weapon master 1 Exotic weapon master 2 BAB +16/+11/+6/+1 Attack bonus : +1 size +1(ioun stone) +1 racial (Halfling for thrown weapons) +8 dex +16 base total = +27/+22/+17/+12 will fix this later :weep: Total Attack bonus with palm shot and ricochet on each attack with off hand attacks and improved rapid shot with haste 36 attacks All these builds use the same principles: 1) ranged touch attacks 2) palm throw for 2 attacks each throw 3) skiprock ricochet for extra attack on each throw(-2) well any coments, maybe funny could consider this for the most number of attacks category world record. :D
carnivore 09-27-04, 02:31 PM	comments anyone , optimize if possible :)
Lo77o 09-27-04, 04:53 PM	Thats... hmmm whats the word... Ohh ya... Very Nice..
Endarire 09-27-04, 10:41 PM	How'd you get exotic weapon prof with no BAB at L1? -EE
carnivore 09-28-04, 07:22 AM	thank you for the replies Lo77o, and Endarire, i dont need exotic weapon proficency as skiprocks are racial weapons for halflings thus are considered martial weapons, but i will correct it to martial weapon where it should be. these builds also will work very nicely with vow of poverty,(since all you will be carrying around will be a bag of rocks) just make sure you only take it at 18th+ lvl that way you can get the tomes and pay for some permanent spells etc before you have to give all your stuff away.
carnivore 09-28-04, 12:12 PM	:bump: any ideas to improve this?............comments .... :)
Qaetar 09-28-04, 12:26 PM	IIRC, Halfling Skipstones are not mere rocks, and being an EWP (even a martial weapon) are banned from VoP users. (Qaetar)
catharz 09-28-04, 12:33 PM	:bow: Too bad you don't get any sneak attack, but thats pretty nice. Of course, with a Sharn you could probably get... Hmm... Multiweapon fighting and BAB at least +11 means 11 weapon attacks (and three bites) with a full attack... Rapid and Improved rapid would make it 13 thrown. Manyshot (assuming it works for thrown) is three attacks as a standard action. So, 16 throws. Palm throw brings that to 32. Skiprock brings that to 64 =P Still, I think your build is the better one.
carnivore 09-28-04, 12:37 PM	the description in RoF said simply polished stones(you can find polished stone in river beds) ,IMO they are just rocks, i dont care how poor you are if you cant carry rocks and throw them at people,...........you are so poor you cant even afford a vow of poverty. i could be wrong, and if so just dont use VOP :D thanks catharz, i wasnt even thinking of other creatures....now i know someone will post about an anthropomorphic squid ;)
Kabol 09-28-04, 03:36 PM	Well - How much do the rocks cost? You can use things like Club - Quarter staff cause they have "-" under cost - meaning No cost. But you cant use a Greatclube cause it has a cost of 5gp. Doesnt mater if you Make the greatclub yourself - it has a Value, there for unavailable as a VoP weapon. If skiprocks have a Value, Then you cant use then in VoP - they then have No value, then you Can
carnivore 09-28-04, 03:42 PM	valid point ,then dont use VOP the builds never needed it anyway, i just thought it might be interesting from a role playing perspective......in which case you might be able to get it by your DM.
The Lone Drow 09-28-04, 10:23 PM	Well - How much do the rocks cost? You can use things like Club - Quarter staff cause they have "-" under cost - meaning No cost. But you cant use a Greatclube cause it has a cost of 5gp. Doesnt mater if you Make the greatclub yourself - it has a Value, there for unavailable as a VoP weapon. If skiprocks have a Value, Then you cant use then in VoP - they then have No value, then you Can A sling is a simple weapon with no cost. Since I agree that a skiprock can easily be a rock polished in a river bed, I don't see where the Vow of Poverty doesn't fit. Sure it's munchkiny, but that's what we are here for.
Adan Northgan 09-28-04, 11:55 PM	if you no human being (and of the clan) you cannot be shiba protector. and where is that feat from?
darczero 10-16-04, 05:44 AM	thank you for the replies Lo77o, and Endarire, i dont need exotic weapon proficency as skiprocks are racial weapons for halflings thus are considered martial weapons, but i will correct it to martial weapon where it should be. these builds also will work very nicely with vow of poverty,(since all you will be carrying around will be a bag of rocks) just make sure you only take it at 18th+ lvl that way you can get the tomes and pay for some permanent spells etc before you have to give all your stuff away. I see no mention of halfling skiprocks in their racial description; still Exotic. Still need to spend a feat on them. However, the rest of it looks mostly okay. Almost broken, but okay. (the only reason it's not broken is the fact that they're rocks, which do 1d3 or 1d4 damage when thrown. I'll point out my problems with it: First, I'd like to know how you're getting Touch Attacks out of the deal. Also, I agree, you're not Human, no Shiba Protector for you. There's also a decided lack of meeting prerequisites; Exotic Weapon Master requires three WP, all Exotic, just to qualify; you have none listed. No +16 to damage, either; with Palm Throw, you add no Str bonus. While Harper Paragon does grant Evil as a favored enemy, I (as a DM) would have to say NO for Foe Hunter on that same string. Too broad range in application. And, as a final note, I'd definitely have to say no VoP for you, on any of these builds. You rely on magic items (quite heavily), and if nothing else, multiple weapons. Even if you got all your nifty magic items/permanent spells in place before you took the vow (matter of fact, Especially then!).
Snicker-Snack 10-16-04, 06:39 AM	First, I'd like to know how you're getting Touch Attacks out of the deal. I think he's using Weak spot. All of his builds have 5 levels in Master thrower. Exotic Weapon Master requires three WP, all Exotic, just to qualify; you have none listed. The CW's EWM just requires 1 EWP and 1 WF in a Exotic weapon. No +16 to damage, either; with Palm Throw, you add no Str bonus. I don't think he's taking STR into consideration. Wis and Int are responsible for the damage, that still leaves the problem of qualifying to Shiba protector, though. Your other points are correct, however. Halflings, as elves, have no weapon familiarity. And you cant' be a halfling Shiba protector.
carnivore 10-16-04, 02:25 PM	yes you are right about the shiba protector part , i was in a hurry and didnt look it up :weep: . the main point of these builds were to highlight the skiprock and its unique extra attack combined with the palm throw allowing 2 attacks with 1 throw. this way for each attack in a full round attack action you get to multiply by 4 the way this build would do a lot of damage is thru sheer volume of attacks...touch attacks that is. most of the work was done without any books with me and only some notes as reference ....hence the errors ;) another idea i was working on in this vein: hows this--anthropomorphic squid gets 11 attacks or with multiweapon attack,improved multiweapon attack,greater multiweapon attack,rapid shot,improved rapid shot something like this: BAB +16 primary hand 4 attacks each palm throws with skiprocks(ricochets) = 16 attacks primary hand rapid shot with palm throw and ricochet = 4 attacks haste adds 1 attack with palm throw and ricochet = 4 attacks 10 offhands with 3 attacks each = 30 x palm throws = 60 x each ricocheting = 120 total 144 attacks :D tell me am i wrong about this,.......picture this...set this guy on a pile of skip rocks .i would like to use manyshot but it does not work with thrown objects, only arrows what do you think :D
Tempest Stormwind 10-16-04, 03:37 PM	You still haven't addressed the issues of Shiba protector being a Human (Phoenix)-Only class, which both the strongheart and the anthropomorphic squid fail to achieve, AND the lack of weapon familiarity with the halfling. Plus, I think the whole 144-attacks-a-round thing is why they capped base attack bonus in epic play. Any DM allowing this would be as insane as one allowing the hulking hurler with the billion-damage thing going.
carnivore 10-16-04, 03:55 PM	yes you are correct about the shiba protector thing , as i said before...... :twitch: i will fix it. the main point of this is to expose another tactical idea that can be capitalized on. build on it and make it better.......even though many DMs will not realize the potiential of this build until after it has been in play for a while. it is a sneaky thing that creeps up on you. :D