Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JanusJones 12-17-06, 01:54 PM	Hey all. Starting up an evil game in which I need to fill the Rogue skill-monkey role. I'm going to be playing with a Dread Necro and an evil Cleric, so I figured I'd do a Necrocarnate build. Basically I've come up with two different ways to do the same thing: Silverbrow Human Scout 1/Totemist 2: Able Learner (1st), Dragonfire Strike (human), Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (3rd). This would let me use the Manticore Belt to fire off two spikes each round after a move, dealing 3d6 + 1/2 Strength bonus per spike. It'd also be hidey as heck, since I can bind Kruthik claws for Hide/Move Silently bonuses. Silverbrow Human Scout 1/Incarnate 2: Able Learner (1st), Dragonfire Strike (human), Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (3rd). This would let me deal 4d6 once per round as a ranged touch attack using Dissolving Spittle. I'd also grab myself a Magebred Clawfoot dinosaur to build a Necrocarnum Zombie out of, and watch it tear into things with its 25 Strength. Best 300 gold ever spent! My basic issue is this: the Totemist will ultimately let me do a lot of damage myself (up to 7 spikes with skirmish damage on them!), give me loads of skill points (4 per level), and make me sneaky (Worg Pelt and Kruthik Claws both come to mind). The Incarnate will make up for lost skill points with soulmelds, but that won't cover the lost BaB. Moreover, the Incarnate won't deal as much total damage in a round (but may hit more with touch attacks). Then there's the issue of what to do with the 2 extra levels before Necrocarnate and what to do after Necrocarnate. So my first question is: Totemist or Incarnate? My second question: what should I get after level 8 (Necrocarnate 1)? Should I keep going in Necrocarnate to make my soulmelds slick or go to a sneak attack or skirmish damage class? Or should I go for Beastmaster and use my pets to spit at enemies? Any thoughts?
Richmud 12-17-06, 02:31 PM	If you go totemist just take 1 level of necrocarnate and concentrate more on getting additional skirmish, I like dragon devotee for that. If you go incarnate take at least enough necrocarnate to get double zombies. Personally I like the totemist version better
JanusJones 12-17-06, 03:06 PM	Option the first: Hand of the Winged Masters/Dragon Devotee Totemist with Scout skirmish damage. Option the second: Beastmaster with lots of acidic spittle-horking pets, using Incarnate/Rogue levels and Use Magic Device. Option the third: full-on Necrocarnate with loads of soulmelds.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 12-17-06, 03:45 PM	Hmm, what about Unseen Seer? It only takes some ranks in some skills and the ability to cast 1st level spells.
Richmud 12-17-06, 04:00 PM	Hmm, what about Unseen Seer? It only takes some ranks in some skills and the ability to cast 1st level spells. And spells are coincidently provided by dragon devotee
JanusJones 12-17-06, 06:12 PM	Hmm. I like. Let's see. Let's start with my original Draconic Skirmisher: Scout 1/Totemist 5/Hand of the Winged Masters 1/Necrocarnate 1/Hand of the Winged Masters 8/Dragon Devotee 4: Able Learner (1st), Dragontouched (human), Dragonfire Strike (3rd), Necrocarnum Acolyte (6th), Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (9th), Heart of Incarnum (12th), Drconic Heritage - Battle Dragon (15th), Indigo Strike (18th). This allows for 8d6 + 16 + ˝ Str damage on 7 attacks, for 56d6 + 112 + 3.5 x Str. Assume a 14 Strength (20 with an item) and we’re talking 8d6 + 18 seven times, or 182 - 420 damage with a move each round. Your BaB will be only a +12, though, so your chance to hit (assume a Dex of 20 and a +5 amulet of mighty fists) will only be a +22. Your skirmish damage will be sonic in nature, though! Now let's try that with an Unseen Seer instead! Human Scout 1/Totemist 5/Dragon Devotee 1/Necrocarnate 1/Dragon Devotee 2/Unseen Seer 10: Able Learner (1st), Indigo Strike (human), Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (3rd), Necrocarnum Acolyte (6th), Dragonfire Strike (9th), Extend Spell (12th), Persistent Spell (15th), Midnight Metamagic (18th). Without the Improved Dragonfire Strike we lose a little something, here, but we do gain a lot as well. Level 11 Sorcerer casting, endless essentia to fuel persistent spells, and total damage of 8d6 + 8 + 3.5 x Str. This gives me some flexibility later on - I like it. A problem with both builds, though, is a severe lack of BaB. Even with a ton of attacks, I'm going to have trouble hitting! Maybe a Dissolving Spittle build would function better?
JanusJones 12-18-06, 12:16 AM	Hello? Hyalp! :bump:
Xaktsaroth 12-18-06, 01:32 AM	Wait, can you get skirmish damage on all the manticore spikes? I thought it counted a volley attack, so you'd only get skirmish on 1. Not sure, probably a good idea to double check. Secondly, a little BeastMaster would be quite nice, with the Share Soulmeld feat, you can make your little friend a mini-you and soulmeld away.
Richmud 12-18-06, 10:17 AM	Wait, can you get skirmish damage on all the manticore spikes? I thought it counted a volley attack, so you'd only get skirmish on 1. You roll for each spike separately so it should work
JanusJones 12-18-06, 12:11 PM	Wait, can you get skirmish damage on all the manticore spikes? I thought it counted a volley attack, so you'd only get skirmish on 1. Not sure, probably a good idea to double check. Secondly, a little BeastMaster would be quite nice, with the Share Soulmeld feat, you can make your little friend a mini-you and soulmeld away. I was thinking of using Dissolving Spittle and having a bunch of snakes or spiders. Good flavor, and you could have a bunch of really little ones that crawled all over you (and a big one to ride on, of course!). The low-level power of the Dissolving Spittle trick is limited, though. You really start to blow up with 6th level, when you get your first pet. I'm a bit scared of my DM - he's normally a Paladin-player and has been threatening us evil PCs with a swift and righteous death. I don't think he'll be out-and-out murdering us, so my goal is to make a decent damage dealer so he'll have to really fight for it. Oh, and yeah - the Manticor Spikes are all rolled separately, so the skirmish damage would apply to each. Pretty niffy, right?
Bonzai 12-18-06, 06:59 PM	Now, I could be wrong, but I believe that while a Totemist can become a Necrocarnate, they can't use any of the Necrocarum Soul Melds. So, in my opinion Necrocarnate should be taken either in full with Incarnate, or dipped for a few levels as a Soulborn (for the extra essentia). Since you are going skill monkey, I lean towards Incarnate/Necrocarnate. Damage wise, you have your Necrocarnum Zombie (available at lvl 2!). You can use the Necrocarnum touch for decent ranged damage (8d8 in the latter levels). You can also invest in a weapon with the skillfull enhancement to give you 3/4 babs. Or, if you want to go off the beaten path, I would go something like Rogue 2/Incarnate 3/Umbral Disciple 3/Necrocarnate-?). This would give you trap finding, Evasion, sneak attacks, nice ability boosts, concealment (and Hide in plane sight), Incarnate melds, the crown chakra, and however many Necrocarnate abilities you want to get. I am afb right now, so I don't remember the Necrocarnate entry requirements off hand, so you may need to spend a feat to open a chakra. Get a skillfull weapon, and you now have a stealthy, skillfull, sneak attacking Necrocarnate. Also get indigo strike to pump up the sneak attack damage, and flank with your zombie.
JanusJones 12-19-06, 12:25 PM	Now, I could be wrong, but I believe that while a Totemist can become a Necrocarnate, they can't use any of the Necrocarum Soul Melds. So, in my opinion Necrocarnate should be taken either in full with Incarnate, or dipped for a few levels as a Soulborn (for the extra essentia). Since you are going skill monkey, I lean towards Incarnate/Necrocarnate. Damage wise, you have your Necrocarnum Zombie (available at lvl 2!). You can use the Necrocarnum touch for decent ranged damage (8d8 in the latter levels). You can also invest in a weapon with the skillfull enhancement to give you 3/4 babs. Or, if you want to go off the beaten path, I would go something like Rogue 2/Incarnate 3/Umbral Disciple 3/Necrocarnate-?). This would give you trap finding, Evasion, sneak attacks, nice ability boosts, concealment (and Hide in plane sight), Incarnate melds, the crown chakra, and however many Necrocarnate abilities you want to get. I am afb right now, so I don't remember the Necrocarnate entry requirements off hand, so you may need to spend a feat to open a chakra. Get a skillfull weapon, and you now have a stealthy, skillfull, sneak attacking Necrocarnate. Also get indigo strike to pump up the sneak attack damage, and flank with your zombie. Oh, you're right. However, the Necrocarnate level allows you limitless essentia, which can be VERY HANDY with something like Heart of Incarnum (1 essentia per body = 1 HP per body). You don't need to keep going in Necrocarnate for that first level to be snazzy. You can't use the Necrocarnum soulmelds as a Totemist, no. But still, the ability to have limitless essentia is priceless. Soulborns don't get in until after 8th level - and I don't want to wait a level for limitless essentia! Basically, the Totemist will be a direct damage dealer with his spikes. The Incarnate will be more minion focused. It's a hard call.
Toloran 12-19-06, 12:35 PM	Oh, you're right. However, the Necrocarnate level allows you limitless essentia, which can be VERY HANDY with something like Heart of Incarnum (1 essentia per body = 1 HP per body). You don't need to keep going in Necrocarnate for that first level to be snazzy. You can't use the Necrocarnum soulmelds as a Totemist, no. But still, the ability to have limitless essentia is priceless. Soulborns don't get in until after 8th level - and I don't want to wait a level for limitless essentia! Basically, the Totemist will be a direct damage dealer with his spikes. The Incarnate will be more minion focused. It's a hard call. They way to get a totemist necrocarnum melds is to take the feat that gives you an additional soulmeld (and choose a necrocarnum one). It's just like a Psyhic warrior using the Expanded Knowledge feat to get Psion powers. Also, as someone else has already said: With necrocarnate you either should take all 17 levels (to get the two zombies) or only one (for the limitless essentia).
JanusJones 12-19-06, 03:08 PM	Yeah. Right now I've come up with some new ideas that have gotten me thinking. I'm considering the following: Feral Silverbrow Human Rogue 1/Crusader 1: Dragonfire Strike (1st), Able Learner (human). Nothing like a Chaotic Evil snarling mass of claws to do your skill mongering for ya! The thing about this is the double claws with a +2d6 fire damage sneak attack, for a whopping 1d8 + 2d6 + Str twice a round. The Crusader level lets me boost my healing with Martial Spirit, healing up to 4 HP per round (6 with fast healing) if I hit twice. My AC will be great, as will my movement. The Int penalty for being Feral does hurt my skill points, though - bah humbug.