3rd level Paladin, help needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

3rd level Paladin, help needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tshern
08-20-06, 05:28 PM Okay, we are having a campaign and, obviously, I play a Paladin. We have one cleric, one druid and a bard. Druid is a selfish bastard, from whom there is no help to be anticipated in battles, cleric concentrates on buffing the paladin in fights and we don't actually know anything about the bard yet.

I don't know what to put my focus on, so ideas would be appreciated. Here are all the basic things of the paladin:

Race: Human
Class: Paladin 3-lvl, fourth is soon to come.

Str: 13
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 10 (I was promised to get Wis when I start gaining spells)
Cha: 18

He also has a greatsword and fullplate armor. All the characters are in this quest for diplomatic purposes, so Diplomacy has to maxed out, but anything else goes. Any ideas for future prestige classes, feats and skills? Maybe something with Lay on Hands?
Reis
08-20-06, 05:47 PM Paladin3/Cleric7/Fist of Raziel10(BoED) gets +18 BAB and ability to cast 8th level cleric spells (CL20 with practiced spellcaster, superior smiting ability (chain...) holy martial strike...no lay on hands, though when able to cast heal this doesn't matter

might be to cleric-ish for you, though, and it's a bit weak in the level 4-9 range

another kinda cool option would be to pick up a level or two of rogue and go for shadowbane inquisitor/stalker from complete adventurer. Something like Paladin6/Rogue4/Shadowbane Inquisitor10 has +18 BAB, +5d6 sneak attack, evasion and uncanny dodge, trapfinding, paladin abilities up to level 6, and full inquisitor abilities...take extra turning a couple times. Alternatively, you could do a paladin/cleric/rogue with shadowbane stalker that gets up to 7th level cleric spells with your 3 levels of paladin
Tshern
08-20-06, 05:55 PM Doesn't sound bad, but I usually take care of the fighting because rest of the people didn't concentrate on it. Thus, I should be able to be the heavy hitter on the team...
PhoenixInferno
08-20-06, 07:15 PM Were those stats rolled or did you use point-buy? Paladins suffer from Multiple Attribute Dependency pretty heavily. If they were obtained with point-buy, I would beg to get the points redistributed. If they were rolled...
Tshern
08-21-06, 12:31 AM If I asked nicely, they probably could be redistributed. 13 Str was because of Power attack and 18 Ch because I'm the group leader... What should I change then? Add stuff to Wis?
PhaedrusXY
08-21-06, 12:43 AM If I asked nicely, they probably could be redistributed. 13 Str was because of Power attack and 18 Ch because I'm the group leader... What should I change then? Add stuff to Wis?Did you use a point-buy system? Or what? If you used a normal point buy, then definitely lower your Charisma and add some to Con. Yes, palladins need charisma, but everyone needs con, and buying an 18 cha is not worth sacking your con for.
Tshern
08-21-06, 12:47 AM We were given 73 points. I'll try fixing my Con, but how about feats and possible prestige classes?
TheHumanDynamo
08-21-06, 12:55 AM Another great option for Paladins is going into the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC (page 54 in Tome of Magic)

Can get in with Paladin 3/Binder 2, then from there it's a 5 level PrC. Binder + Knight of the Sacred Seal offer a a lot of flexibility with the beneftis from the vestiges you choose (can be back up healer, add some arcane spells to your guy, bonuses on diplomacy, more combat options, etc), along with some re-useable abilities that offer good AC/Damage bonuses. You still have 10 levels to play around with after it as well.

If you go this route, definelty pick up Improved Binding (from Tome of Magic as well) to allow you to bind vestiges 2 levels higher then your initial 2 binder levels. It's important to get some of the better vestiges.
PhaedrusXY
08-21-06, 12:57 AM Sorry if I missed this, but what books are available? Cleric/Fist of Raziel is pretty much a palladin that is better than a palladin. If you can use Prestige Palladin, it can be done even better.

What feats do you have now? What can/cannot be changed? I would suggest using a falchion and taking improved critical. That combined with Bless Weapon will let you dish out crits like crazy vs. evil opponents.
Tshern
08-21-06, 09:25 AM The books available: PHB, PHB II, Completes (Divine, Warrior, Adventurer, Arcane), Book of Exalted deeds, Defenders of the Faith and Tome of Magic.

At the moment, my only feat is Weapon focus (greatsword), DM allowed me to change the two other feats. Almost a tabula rasa then...

What book is Binder from? Sounds interesting.
McSplat
08-24-06, 05:25 PM if your planning on re-allocating your attributes you might also want to consider getting your dex to 12. If your the main melee guy you might need that extra AC. And a negative modifier in your dex effects too many things.
Bartok
08-24-06, 05:25 PM I hope you mean 37 pts, not 73 pts or you seriously short changed yourself ;)

As it is the stats you listed only add up to 31!

Here is an online points calculator:
http://home.san.rr.com/thegraggs/dnd/Misc/pbcalc.htm

I'm not an expert by any stretch, but I'd probably go:
Str 16
Dex 12 (for the max dex bonus in plate, you are a tank, AC is good)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 16

Or possibly switch strength and con.

Bartok
PhoenixInferno
08-24-06, 05:33 PM Not everyone plays with the standard point buy scheme. As it is, "73 points" is a scheme where all your stats start at 0 and you buy up, point-for-point.
JulesCARV
08-24-06, 05:42 PM I think that by "73 points," Tshern means that the total of all ability scores adds up to 73. Thus, an array of 16 12 14 10 13 16 costs 16 + 12 + 14 + 10 + 13 + 16 points: 81 points.

Personally, I'd just skip playing a paladin in such circumstances, and go for a class that really got a lot out of one stat, but regardless, I don't think paladin/cleric/fist of raziel is really the best route, given a wisdom of 10. It seems like paladin/favored soul/fist of raziel is better: save DCs will still be bad, but at least buffs will be good. Paladin 4/Favored Soul 6/Fist of Raziel 10, for example.
ed209
08-24-06, 09:34 PM I don't know what to put my focus on, so ideas would be appreciated.

... Mommy was an Orc's thread has a build or two based on the Divine Crusader PRC...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tshern 08-20-06, 05:28 PM	Okay, we are having a campaign and, obviously, I play a Paladin. We have one cleric, one druid and a bard. Druid is a selfish bastard, from whom there is no help to be anticipated in battles, cleric concentrates on buffing the paladin in fights and we don't actually know anything about the bard yet. I don't know what to put my focus on, so ideas would be appreciated. Here are all the basic things of the paladin: Race: Human Class: Paladin 3-lvl, fourth is soon to come. Str: 13 Dex: 8 Con: 12 Int: 12 Wis: 10 (I was promised to get Wis when I start gaining spells) Cha: 18 He also has a greatsword and fullplate armor. All the characters are in this quest for diplomatic purposes, so Diplomacy has to maxed out, but anything else goes. Any ideas for future prestige classes, feats and skills? Maybe something with Lay on Hands?
Reis 08-20-06, 05:47 PM	Paladin3/Cleric7/Fist of Raziel10(BoED) gets +18 BAB and ability to cast 8th level cleric spells (CL20 with practiced spellcaster, superior smiting ability (chain...) holy martial strike...no lay on hands, though when able to cast heal this doesn't matter might be to cleric-ish for you, though, and it's a bit weak in the level 4-9 range another kinda cool option would be to pick up a level or two of rogue and go for shadowbane inquisitor/stalker from complete adventurer. Something like Paladin6/Rogue4/Shadowbane Inquisitor10 has +18 BAB, +5d6 sneak attack, evasion and uncanny dodge, trapfinding, paladin abilities up to level 6, and full inquisitor abilities...take extra turning a couple times. Alternatively, you could do a paladin/cleric/rogue with shadowbane stalker that gets up to 7th level cleric spells with your 3 levels of paladin
Tshern 08-20-06, 05:55 PM	Doesn't sound bad, but I usually take care of the fighting because rest of the people didn't concentrate on it. Thus, I should be able to be the heavy hitter on the team...
PhoenixInferno 08-20-06, 07:15 PM	Were those stats rolled or did you use point-buy? Paladins suffer from Multiple Attribute Dependency pretty heavily. If they were obtained with point-buy, I would beg to get the points redistributed. If they were rolled...
Tshern 08-21-06, 12:31 AM	If I asked nicely, they probably could be redistributed. 13 Str was because of Power attack and 18 Ch because I'm the group leader... What should I change then? Add stuff to Wis?
PhaedrusXY 08-21-06, 12:43 AM	If I asked nicely, they probably could be redistributed. 13 Str was because of Power attack and 18 Ch because I'm the group leader... What should I change then? Add stuff to Wis?Did you use a point-buy system? Or what? If you used a normal point buy, then definitely lower your Charisma and add some to Con. Yes, palladins need charisma, but everyone needs con, and buying an 18 cha is not worth sacking your con for.
Tshern 08-21-06, 12:47 AM	We were given 73 points. I'll try fixing my Con, but how about feats and possible prestige classes?
TheHumanDynamo 08-21-06, 12:55 AM	Another great option for Paladins is going into the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC (page 54 in Tome of Magic) Can get in with Paladin 3/Binder 2, then from there it's a 5 level PrC. Binder + Knight of the Sacred Seal offer a a lot of flexibility with the beneftis from the vestiges you choose (can be back up healer, add some arcane spells to your guy, bonuses on diplomacy, more combat options, etc), along with some re-useable abilities that offer good AC/Damage bonuses. You still have 10 levels to play around with after it as well. If you go this route, definelty pick up Improved Binding (from Tome of Magic as well) to allow you to bind vestiges 2 levels higher then your initial 2 binder levels. It's important to get some of the better vestiges.
PhaedrusXY 08-21-06, 12:57 AM	Sorry if I missed this, but what books are available? Cleric/Fist of Raziel is pretty much a palladin that is better than a palladin. If you can use Prestige Palladin, it can be done even better. What feats do you have now? What can/cannot be changed? I would suggest using a falchion and taking improved critical. That combined with Bless Weapon will let you dish out crits like crazy vs. evil opponents.
Tshern 08-21-06, 09:25 AM	The books available: PHB, PHB II, Completes (Divine, Warrior, Adventurer, Arcane), Book of Exalted deeds, Defenders of the Faith and Tome of Magic. At the moment, my only feat is Weapon focus (greatsword), DM allowed me to change the two other feats. Almost a tabula rasa then... What book is Binder from? Sounds interesting.
McSplat 08-24-06, 05:25 PM	if your planning on re-allocating your attributes you might also want to consider getting your dex to 12. If your the main melee guy you might need that extra AC. And a negative modifier in your dex effects too many things.
Bartok 08-24-06, 05:25 PM	I hope you mean 37 pts, not 73 pts or you seriously short changed yourself ;) As it is the stats you listed only add up to 31! Here is an online points calculator: http://home.san.rr.com/thegraggs/dnd/Misc/pbcalc.htm I'm not an expert by any stretch, but I'd probably go: Str 16 Dex 12 (for the max dex bonus in plate, you are a tank, AC is good) Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 16 Or possibly switch strength and con. Bartok
PhoenixInferno 08-24-06, 05:33 PM	Not everyone plays with the standard point buy scheme. As it is, "73 points" is a scheme where all your stats start at 0 and you buy up, point-for-point.
JulesCARV 08-24-06, 05:42 PM	I think that by "73 points," Tshern means that the total of all ability scores adds up to 73. Thus, an array of 16 12 14 10 13 16 costs 16 + 12 + 14 + 10 + 13 + 16 points: 81 points. Personally, I'd just skip playing a paladin in such circumstances, and go for a class that really got a lot out of one stat, but regardless, I don't think paladin/cleric/fist of raziel is really the best route, given a wisdom of 10. It seems like paladin/favored soul/fist of raziel is better: save DCs will still be bad, but at least buffs will be good. Paladin 4/Favored Soul 6/Fist of Raziel 10, for example.
ed209 08-24-06, 09:34 PM	I don't know what to put my focus on, so ideas would be appreciated. ... Mommy was an Orc's thread has a build or two based on the Divine Crusader PRC...