3rd level player killer [Archive] - Wizards Community

3rd level player killer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kidthulu
11-03-05, 02:11 PM I got soem real optimizers(power gamers, munchkins etc etc) in this game i'm half-running and I need a third level character that might be able to hold them off. He eventually is supposed to turn on the party and almost wreck the entire crew in order to give them a slap on the hand for trying to roll play instead or roleplay. What ideas can you give me at 3rd level?
lostone
11-03-05, 02:42 PM What level is the rest of the group, also 3rd level? How many other players are there? It is unlikely you'll be able to pull it off at 3rd level, at least not with the tactics I am truly familiar with.

If this is an NPC, there is no real reason he would have to be the same level, he could be more like level 8 but be holding back so to hide his true fighting capabilities. Then when it comes time to punish the others he can surprise them.
tate
11-03-05, 02:53 PM I have done this once, by accident. The party was about 5th level and they got the "help" of a Rogue/Monk. They were wary of him at first, so cast detect alignment. . . good thing he drank a potion of obscure alignment (or whatever it was). Then during a battle with the head guy of the mines they were clearing out, he went invisible (potion) and used flurry of blows to do massive sneak attack damage. Needless to say it was a TPK. . . oops.

I think the build I used was:

Dwarf Rog3/Mnk3

Buffed with Potions of Mage Armor, Owl's Wis, Bull's Str, Invis
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10
Attack +9 (+7/+7 flurry) for d6+5 damage plus 2d6 SA, also Stunning Fist
50hp with AC of 23 (?)
He also had an amulet of mighty fists +1, and some potions of cure mod and extra invisibilities just in case.

His feats were nothing special: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Deflect Arrows, Stunning Fist
SoulLord
11-03-05, 02:55 PM ok here goes one

grey elf +2 int
very old +2 int

starting 18 int
spell focus necromancy
greater spell focus necromancy

dc for a second level spell 10+ 2 spell lvl + 6 int +1 sf +1gsf = 20
drink a potion of fox cunning before casting the spell =dc 22

Ghoul touch will leave the player you want to kill at your mercy
from here you can CDG him with a shocking grasp.

It's very unlikely that a 3rd lvl pc will be able to save and even more that it survives the cdg.
MeleeMonster
11-03-05, 03:02 PM I agree he shoudl be at higher level - one thing I woudl suggest though it takes a bit to get here is combat brute leap charge combo there is also another feat from a dragon magazine I don't remember the name but it required ransk in perform: percussion and sunder (also prereq for combat brute) and whatever damage you do to a sunder the weapon is applied to the PC.

So you leap cgharge - power attack for alot (1:3) ratio to sunder their weapon the damage is dealt to them immediately and then with sunderiong cleave from combat brute you get another attack against the PC. They should nto be able to loive after that. If you wnat to spare them make sure the guy is using a merciful weapon and you will knock them unconcious. Using a goliath here allows you to make charge jumps without the running start. And of course if you are going to be sundering make sure it is an adantite weapon.
PhaedrusXY
11-03-05, 03:03 PM Dwarven mineral warrior barbarian1/ftr1 with a spiked chain. Feats: EWP: Spiked Chain, Wolf Berzerker, Improved Trip. To fit the feats in, take a flaw, or make it a human instead. Max Str and Con.

Edit: You could exchange Improved Trip for Combat Reflexes, if you give him a decent Dex. Or give him another flaw. :P
ramhammer
11-03-05, 09:42 PM Stick with 3rd level npc thats how you teach them a leason, use a higher lvl npc and you get
"you killed us but you had to use 8 lvl npc". Use a 3rd lvl npc and the DM goes " thats who its done". So the build is Human Fighter 3. Feats are Ex WP Spiked Chain, IMP Trip, WF Spk chain, combat expertis, the last your choice. Give him some cool items then Trip, AoO reapt as needed, till they are all dead. Its an over used build but it works If you use the right tactics.
canadianguy
11-03-05, 10:21 PM How about a warlock or warlock thief.
Use your cha and charm invocation to manipulate and control the party. The same idea can work with an enchanter.
If you go the warlock/thief route you can take an invocation that gives everyone concealment and then cast faerie fire from a wand and take it away from who ever you wish to sneak attack.
nittanytbone
11-04-05, 01:32 AM How about a druid armed with Entangle and some summon swarm spells?

Throw in Augment Summoning and a hippogriff or two and you've got a nasty encounter.

Its simple and classic, but hey, its effective.

Round 1: Entangle
Round 2: Summon Hippogriff (flies, can pick off anyone that flees the entangle zone)
Round 3: Summon Swarm (targeted on a party member)
Round 4+: Maintain concentration on swarm; once its dead summon more creatures.

The druid himself should be off on the side with a nasty Riding Dog (trained for war of course) ordered to "guard" parked right in front of him to prevent anyone from disrupting concentration.
HCCommander
11-04-05, 02:38 AM I would go druid, too. A great feat set is Greenbound Summoning, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Augment Summoning.

The question is how the group is optimized. If they are all set for Fochlucan Lyrist exploits and similar stuff, a prepared druid 3 will most likely beat them on level 3. If one of them is also a druid aiming for druid 20 (which is optimized very well) things might become harder for the npc.
nittanytbone
11-04-05, 02:58 AM Plus, the players might be more likely to keep a druid around for awhile if he's generous with the Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restorations, or if an "ally" with nature spells is required for travel through a particularly dangerous area (perhaps the extra slow poison spells and calm animals are needed to get through a region known for its hordes of giant scorpions).

Most combat based allies would be resented and seen as a drain on XP, I would think.
Khan the Destroyer
11-04-05, 04:20 AM I'd say just go with a Whisper Gnome Rogue 3. (Whisper Gnome is from Races of Stone.)

For your two feats, grab Extra Silence and Silencing Strike.

Equip the NPC with a greatsword, and give the gnome a decent strength score (14 should be enough).

When your turn comes to keep watch, coup de grace the entire party while they sleep. Your Silencing Strike feat makes it so no one hears a single sound, and your Extra Silence feat allows you to silence the entire party.

Damage should look like: (2d6+3 (2-Hand Str))x2 + 2d6 (Sneak Attack)= 24 points of damage on average.
Fortitude save of 34 to not die.

That should take care of everyone in less than a minute.

While you aren't assassinating the power gamers in their sleep, you'll provide useful skills and trapfinding.

EDIT: Whups, I don't know what I was thinking. Fixed.
Pellanor
11-04-05, 11:33 AM I believe Whisper Gnome is in Races of Stone, not Races of Destiny.
SoulLord
11-04-05, 05:04 PM Something that will leave your players crying Foul.

Halfling rogue

dex 18 +2 race
feat skill focus hide

hide ranks 6 +5 dex +3 skill focus +4 size bonus
elixir of hiding +10
potion of cat's grace +2

total at 3rd lv = +30 hide
from here begin to snipe the characters
even with the -20 for sniping
It will have very good chances of attacking +sa dmg every round
without them knowing what hit them.
batstek
11-04-05, 06:09 PM Dwarven Fighter 1/Monk 2

1st Level Feat: Roll With It
Flaw: (-2 Ranged) Roll With It
Flaw: (-2 Fortitude) Roll With it
Bonus: TWF
3rd: Roll With It

DR8/-
Evasion
Base Saves: 5/3/3

Go unarmored. Get CON to 20, then divide the remainder among STR/WIS. Let him use Stunning Fist with an off hand strike to take one guy out for a round, then hit him with a Dwarf Waraxe.
Inkling
11-04-05, 06:42 PM I'd say just go with a Whisper Gnome Rogue 3. (Whisper Gnome is from Races of Stone.)

For your two feats, grab Extra Silence and Silencing Strike.

Equip the NPC with a greatsword, and give the gnome a decent strength score (14 should be enough).

When your turn comes to keep watch, coup de grace the entire party while they sleep. Your Silencing Strike feat makes it so no one hears a single sound, and your Extra Silence feat allows you to silence the entire party.

Damage should look like: (2d6+3 (2-Hand Str))x2 + 2d6 (Sneak Attack)= 24 points of damage on average.
Fortitude save of 34 to not die.

That should take care of everyone in less than a minute.

While you aren't assassinating the power gamers in their sleep, you'll provide useful skills and trapfinding.Oh that is just too evil! I gotta use that! The Death Blow feat from Complete Adventurer that lets you CdG as a standard action might be a nice addition to that build.
Cheap Soda
11-04-05, 07:36 PM Dwarven Fighter 1/Monk 2

1st Level Feat: Roll With It
Flaw: (-2 Ranged) Roll With It
Flaw: (-2 Fortitude) Roll With it
Bonus: TWF
3rd: Roll With It

Needs Toughness to take Roll with it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kidthulu 11-03-05, 02:11 PM	I got soem real optimizers(power gamers, munchkins etc etc) in this game i'm half-running and I need a third level character that might be able to hold them off. He eventually is supposed to turn on the party and almost wreck the entire crew in order to give them a slap on the hand for trying to roll play instead or roleplay. What ideas can you give me at 3rd level?
lostone 11-03-05, 02:42 PM	What level is the rest of the group, also 3rd level? How many other players are there? It is unlikely you'll be able to pull it off at 3rd level, at least not with the tactics I am truly familiar with. If this is an NPC, there is no real reason he would have to be the same level, he could be more like level 8 but be holding back so to hide his true fighting capabilities. Then when it comes time to punish the others he can surprise them.
tate 11-03-05, 02:53 PM	I have done this once, by accident. The party was about 5th level and they got the "help" of a Rogue/Monk. They were wary of him at first, so cast detect alignment. . . good thing he drank a potion of obscure alignment (or whatever it was). Then during a battle with the head guy of the mines they were clearing out, he went invisible (potion) and used flurry of blows to do massive sneak attack damage. Needless to say it was a TPK. . . oops. I think the build I used was: Dwarf Rog3/Mnk3 Buffed with Potions of Mage Armor, Owl's Wis, Bull's Str, Invis Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10 Attack +9 (+7/+7 flurry) for d6+5 damage plus 2d6 SA, also Stunning Fist 50hp with AC of 23 (?) He also had an amulet of mighty fists +1, and some potions of cure mod and extra invisibilities just in case. His feats were nothing special: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Deflect Arrows, Stunning Fist
SoulLord 11-03-05, 02:55 PM	ok here goes one grey elf +2 int very old +2 int starting 18 int spell focus necromancy greater spell focus necromancy dc for a second level spell 10+ 2 spell lvl + 6 int +1 sf +1gsf = 20 drink a potion of fox cunning before casting the spell =dc 22 Ghoul touch will leave the player you want to kill at your mercy from here you can CDG him with a shocking grasp. It's very unlikely that a 3rd lvl pc will be able to save and even more that it survives the cdg.
MeleeMonster 11-03-05, 03:02 PM	I agree he shoudl be at higher level - one thing I woudl suggest though it takes a bit to get here is combat brute leap charge combo there is also another feat from a dragon magazine I don't remember the name but it required ransk in perform: percussion and sunder (also prereq for combat brute) and whatever damage you do to a sunder the weapon is applied to the PC. So you leap cgharge - power attack for alot (1:3) ratio to sunder their weapon the damage is dealt to them immediately and then with sunderiong cleave from combat brute you get another attack against the PC. They should nto be able to loive after that. If you wnat to spare them make sure the guy is using a merciful weapon and you will knock them unconcious. Using a goliath here allows you to make charge jumps without the running start. And of course if you are going to be sundering make sure it is an adantite weapon.
PhaedrusXY 11-03-05, 03:03 PM	Dwarven mineral warrior barbarian1/ftr1 with a spiked chain. Feats: EWP: Spiked Chain, Wolf Berzerker, Improved Trip. To fit the feats in, take a flaw, or make it a human instead. Max Str and Con. Edit: You could exchange Improved Trip for Combat Reflexes, if you give him a decent Dex. Or give him another flaw. :P
ramhammer 11-03-05, 09:42 PM	Stick with 3rd level npc thats how you teach them a leason, use a higher lvl npc and you get "you killed us but you had to use 8 lvl npc". Use a 3rd lvl npc and the DM goes " thats who its done". So the build is Human Fighter 3. Feats are Ex WP Spiked Chain, IMP Trip, WF Spk chain, combat expertis, the last your choice. Give him some cool items then Trip, AoO reapt as needed, till they are all dead. Its an over used build but it works If you use the right tactics.
canadianguy 11-03-05, 10:21 PM	How about a warlock or warlock thief. Use your cha and charm invocation to manipulate and control the party. The same idea can work with an enchanter. If you go the warlock/thief route you can take an invocation that gives everyone concealment and then cast faerie fire from a wand and take it away from who ever you wish to sneak attack.
nittanytbone 11-04-05, 01:32 AM	How about a druid armed with Entangle and some summon swarm spells? Throw in Augment Summoning and a hippogriff or two and you've got a nasty encounter. Its simple and classic, but hey, its effective. Round 1: Entangle Round 2: Summon Hippogriff (flies, can pick off anyone that flees the entangle zone) Round 3: Summon Swarm (targeted on a party member) Round 4+: Maintain concentration on swarm; once its dead summon more creatures. The druid himself should be off on the side with a nasty Riding Dog (trained for war of course) ordered to "guard" parked right in front of him to prevent anyone from disrupting concentration.
HCCommander 11-04-05, 02:38 AM	I would go druid, too. A great feat set is Greenbound Summoning, Spell Focus:Conjuration, Augment Summoning. The question is how the group is optimized. If they are all set for Fochlucan Lyrist exploits and similar stuff, a prepared druid 3 will most likely beat them on level 3. If one of them is also a druid aiming for druid 20 (which is optimized very well) things might become harder for the npc.
nittanytbone 11-04-05, 02:58 AM	Plus, the players might be more likely to keep a druid around for awhile if he's generous with the Cure Light Wounds and Lesser Restorations, or if an "ally" with nature spells is required for travel through a particularly dangerous area (perhaps the extra slow poison spells and calm animals are needed to get through a region known for its hordes of giant scorpions). Most combat based allies would be resented and seen as a drain on XP, I would think.
Khan the Destroyer 11-04-05, 04:20 AM	I'd say just go with a Whisper Gnome Rogue 3. (Whisper Gnome is from Races of Stone.) For your two feats, grab Extra Silence and Silencing Strike. Equip the NPC with a greatsword, and give the gnome a decent strength score (14 should be enough). When your turn comes to keep watch, coup de grace the entire party while they sleep. Your Silencing Strike feat makes it so no one hears a single sound, and your Extra Silence feat allows you to silence the entire party. Damage should look like: (2d6+3 (2-Hand Str))x2 + 2d6 (Sneak Attack)= 24 points of damage on average. Fortitude save of 34 to not die. That should take care of everyone in less than a minute. While you aren't assassinating the power gamers in their sleep, you'll provide useful skills and trapfinding. EDIT: Whups, I don't know what I was thinking. Fixed.
Pellanor 11-04-05, 11:33 AM	I believe Whisper Gnome is in Races of Stone, not Races of Destiny.
SoulLord 11-04-05, 05:04 PM	Something that will leave your players crying Foul. Halfling rogue dex 18 +2 race feat skill focus hide hide ranks 6 +5 dex +3 skill focus +4 size bonus elixir of hiding +10 potion of cat's grace +2 total at 3rd lv = +30 hide from here begin to snipe the characters even with the -20 for sniping It will have very good chances of attacking +sa dmg every round without them knowing what hit them.
batstek 11-04-05, 06:09 PM	Dwarven Fighter 1/Monk 2 1st Level Feat: Roll With It Flaw: (-2 Ranged) Roll With It Flaw: (-2 Fortitude) Roll With it Bonus: TWF 3rd: Roll With It DR8/- Evasion Base Saves: 5/3/3 Go unarmored. Get CON to 20, then divide the remainder among STR/WIS. Let him use Stunning Fist with an off hand strike to take one guy out for a round, then hit him with a Dwarf Waraxe.
Inkling 11-04-05, 06:42 PM	I'd say just go with a Whisper Gnome Rogue 3. (Whisper Gnome is from Races of Stone.) For your two feats, grab Extra Silence and Silencing Strike. Equip the NPC with a greatsword, and give the gnome a decent strength score (14 should be enough). When your turn comes to keep watch, coup de grace the entire party while they sleep. Your Silencing Strike feat makes it so no one hears a single sound, and your Extra Silence feat allows you to silence the entire party. Damage should look like: (2d6+3 (2-Hand Str))x2 + 2d6 (Sneak Attack)= 24 points of damage on average. Fortitude save of 34 to not die. That should take care of everyone in less than a minute. While you aren't assassinating the power gamers in their sleep, you'll provide useful skills and trapfinding.Oh that is just too evil! I gotta use that! The Death Blow feat from Complete Adventurer that lets you CdG as a standard action might be a nice addition to that build.
Cheap Soda 11-04-05, 07:36 PM	Dwarven Fighter 1/Monk 2 1st Level Feat: Roll With It Flaw: (-2 Ranged) Roll With It Flaw: (-2 Fortitude) Roll With it Bonus: TWF 3rd: Roll With It Needs Toughness to take Roll with it.