4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells! [Archive] - Wizards Community

4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ArochanoX
08-11-05, 04:02 PM So here's the problem: How to get 16 base attack bonus, level 9 arcane spells and level 9 divine spells. Here's my solution:

1 rogue
2 rogue
2 rogue / 1 bard
2 rogue / 1 bard / 1 wizard
2 rogue / 1 bard / 2 wizard
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 1 ur-priest
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord / 1 focluchan lyrist
.
.
.
2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord / 8 focluchan lyrist

When using fractional bab, this build gains solid +16 bab.

lvl bab arcane divine
1 0,75 - -
2 1,50 - -
3 2,25 - -
4 2,75 1 -
5 3,25 1 -
6 3,75 2 -
7 4,50 2 -
8 5,25 2 1
9 6,00 2 2
10 7,00 2 2
11 7,50 3 3
12 8,00 45 3
13 9,00 5 4
14 10,00 6 5
15 11,00 6 6
16 12,00 7 7
17 13,00 7 8
18 14,00 8 9
19 15,00 8 9
20 16,00 9 9

You need to be human because you need the feat able learner if you don't want to spent enormous recources to skillpoints on cross-class skills.
scout989
08-11-05, 04:06 PM Y'know, I had a question about the FL when I picked up CAdv, and I never got around to asking it (though I suppose your build pretty much answers it for me, I'll ask just to double check): can you use the Speak Language skill to learn Druidic if you don't have druid levels?
ArochanoX
08-11-05, 04:09 PM propably not, you'd want to think it as a class ability to druid. Though this character has 1 level of druid, so that doesn't matter.

As doesn't the feats. This build requires only 3 feats. Total. 2 for ur-priest and 1 for dragonslayer.
Jolly Josh
08-11-05, 04:17 PM you have to be evil... and thats no fun :(
Muddman
08-11-05, 06:44 PM Whats fractional bab? I've never heard of it
Verenal
08-11-05, 07:00 PM Fractional BAB is an optional rule in the unearthed arcana (I think) that makes BAB more multiclassing friendly.
Basically, for every class that has the BAB of a fighter, you get +1 BAB, for every class that has the BAB of a cleric, you get +3/4 BAB, and for every class that has BAB like a wizard, you get ½ BAB. These are added together and rounded down in actual play.

For example a cleric 1 / rogue 3 / druid 1 normally has BAB +2 (+0 from cleric, +2 from rogue and +0 from druid). With fractional BAB he gets 1 * 3/4 from cleric, 3 * 3/4 from rogue and 1 * 3/4 from druid. This equals 4+3/4 points of BAB.
Lilt
08-11-05, 07:43 PM Fractional BAB is the easy way. Real men don't use fractional BAB. Then-again, real men don't use this build:

Bard 4/Fighter 1/UrP 2/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword 1/Spelldancer 2/Sublime Chord 2/Fl 7

Don't be fooled by the presence of Fighter and Dragonslayer. Only a Quiche-eater would play a build including the words 'Bard', 'dancer', 'sublime', 'lyrist', and possibly even 'fochlucan' because it sounds like it may be some form of Quiche.
Lilt
08-11-05, 07:51 PM Savage Bard 7/Ur Priest 1/Master Thrower 2/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9

That works if you're allowed a flaw, but real men don't take flaws either. Real men might be persuaded to play savage bards, however, as savage bards don't eat quiche.
Axle_Steelcat
08-11-05, 08:05 PM Where is Spelldancer from?
Taeldrin Laesrash
08-11-05, 08:48 PM Magic of Faerun. And buy the way, I use flaws, use Fractional BAB, and the words 'sublime', 'bard', and 'lyrist' in my characters. Am I a Quiche-eating wussy? Huh? Huh?!
Nifft
08-11-05, 09:01 PM Am I a Quiche-eating wussy? Huh? Huh?!

Do you have wussy double-vowel sounds in your name? Oh, I see... never mind then...

-- N
Dr Durothil
08-11-05, 09:07 PM Hahaha, funny stuff. Nice work ArochanoX.
ancalimohtar
08-11-05, 10:57 PM Using fractional BAB is silly when you're claiming to optimize BAB.
slade_caizer
08-11-05, 11:17 PM Fractional BAB is very convenient, and as long as your DM is allowing it that's a great and beautiful thing. Fortunately or unfortunately, there are a lot of people who play only core, using no variants or at least not that one.

So while that's a nice, if random-looking, build for use with fractional BAB. Without using fractional BAB though, I don't believe that thing can hold water.

Fighter1/Wizard5/Ur-Priest2/MysticTheurge8/Archmage4

Will only give you a BAB of around 10, but as soon as you cast Divine Power via Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) you'll have full BAB, a Str boost, and some bonus HP for the whole day. Cast it before you go to sleep or after you've prepared for the day.

As for finding that in a normal build, it's unlikely. Being that accomplished martially and having full casting in two types of magic is a bit much to want.
ArochanoX
08-12-05, 04:35 AM Just noticed that the one level of mystic theurge is not needed. You can replace it with any arcane spellcasting class that gives one level of arcane spells. You can have pure wizard or take something like red wizard or incantantrix.
Lilt
08-12-05, 04:56 AM Wizard6/Ur-Priest2/MysticTheurge8/Archmage4

Will only give you a BAB of 10, but as soon as you cast Divine Power via Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) you'll have full BAB, a Str boost, and some bonus HP for the whole day. Cast it before you go to sleep or after you've prepared for the day.UrPriest requires a base fort save of +3 while Wizard 6 gives +2.

@Taeldrin Laesrash:
I can't say for certain. Can you recall from memory the THAC0 tables from AD&D? When you say THAC0, do you say THACKOW or THACKZERO?
Nicepants42
08-12-05, 08:30 AM Quiche = Eggs + Spinach + Pie Crust.

Eggs = Protien
Spinach = HUGE fore-arms + Awesome strength boost
Pie Crust = carbs

In short, quiche is an ass-kicking-in-a-pie just waiting to be put to good use - and is eaten by real men every day. Don't dis' quiche, it will pwnzor joo.
Tweedledope
08-12-05, 09:05 AM Don't be fooled by the presence of Fighter and Dragonslayer. Only a Quiche-eater would play a build including the words 'Bard', 'dancer', 'sublime', 'lyrist', and possibly even 'fochlucan' because it sounds like it may be some form of Quiche.
ROTFLMFAO!!

:rofl: :rofl:
Nezu Chiza
08-12-05, 12:05 PM Interesting. Fractional BAB lets you become BETTER at attacking by not focusing on any class that actually TEACHES you to attack better. So you could be Cleric 1/Druid 1/Wizard 1 and actually have a higher BAB than a Fighter 1. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yep yep, sure does. Pardon me while I go construct houses simply because I spent several years alternately playing with Lego's, Lincoln Logs, and Erector Sets.
Alansmithee
08-12-05, 12:19 PM Quiche = Eggs + Spinach + Pie Crust.

Eggs = Protien
Spinach = HUGE fore-arms + Awesome strength boost
Pie Crust = carbs

In short, quiche is an ass-kicking-in-a-pie just waiting to be put to good use - and is eaten by real men every day. Don't dis' quiche, it will pwnzor joo.

Quiche doesn't have to have spinach iirc. And a real man doesn't need some pansy pie crust to hold his eggs and spinach, he eats/drinks them raw. All the quiche does is girly-fy two manly ingredients.
Taenia
08-12-05, 12:38 PM Actually if you use fractional attack right it will come out worse than a fighter cause you round down and do so after you add in all the levels. So a cleric/druid/rogue would be 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 = 9/4 = 2 1/4 = 2. If you did a cleric/rogue/wizard it would be 3/4 + 3/4 + 2/4 = 8/4 = 2 as well. You will still lose base attack bonus from non "fighter" type levels but if you go rogue/cleric or some other non "fighter" classes you wont shoot yourself in the foot for bab cause of the inability of wotc writers to include simple fractional calculation in their books.
Taeldrin Laesrash
08-12-05, 01:13 PM Wow, I never knew there were so many Ahnolds here. I pronounced it as follows: THAC-Long O.

When it comes to Fractional BAB, it's a bit redundant to compare such things as a Cleric 1/ Rogue 1/ Bard 1 to a Fighter 3 because a Fighter (Or other Good BAB progressions such as a Barbarian or Hexblade) is designed to have the maximum chance to hit a foe.
Sang-Drax
08-12-05, 01:40 PM :heehee:

I never knew anyone that didn't say THACOW... I mean, I pronounced something like that, but without thw "W". I don't know if you'll get my meaning, but hey, I speak Portuguese, after all... it wasn't meant to be understood :P

Erm... what was this thread about, anyway? Oh, yes, right! Quiche, right?
Axle_Steelcat
08-12-05, 01:56 PM <wrong thread>
jameswilliamogle
08-12-05, 03:49 PM he eats/drinks them raw.i didn't know that their were Rules as Written directions on eating/drinking eggs and spinach... hmmm... have to consult my dm...
Shandrakor
08-13-05, 02:19 AM i didn't know that their were Rules as Written directions on eating/drinking eggs and spinach... hmmm... have to consult my dm...

Remember, it's not the RAW that matter, it's the RAI...dirty, dirty quiche-eaters. Your DM might be a quiche-eater! :eek:
BarbeChenue
08-13-05, 03:01 AM Not eating quiche because of the name is not manly. Real men eat what's good for them and don't get bugged by the name, and at least they try it before whining. ;)

And quiche may contain spinach or ham. I really like quiche, among the best things you can do with golden crust and eggs. Try it! :cool:

<--- Is from Québec and likes quiche.
Rim-Soulfang
08-13-05, 05:24 AM Isn't quiche a bit offtopic? Or is it an unwritten prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist?
Zubon
08-13-05, 10:44 AM Isn't quiche a bit offtopic? Or is it an unwritten prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist?
Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills.
LightAcolyte
08-13-05, 11:22 AM Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills.

And who wouldn't want that?? ;)
ArochanoX
08-14-05, 11:31 AM Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills.

:lol:

Never knew about that.

The build on the first post is a bit flawed because of ur-priest's fortitude save presquite. But it's not important because you can take one level in dragonslayer before ur-priest so you gain the required fort.

So it should be instead:

1 rogue
2 rogue
3 bard
4 wizard
5 wizard
6 wizard
7 druid
8 dragonslayer
9 ur-priest
10 ur-priest
11 wizard
12 sublime chord
13 focluchan lyrist
.
.
.
20 focluchan lyrist
Verenal
08-14-05, 03:00 PM ArochanoX, i just noticed that if you have enough skill points you can even play the part of a rogue in hide / move silently / search / disable device department.

I thought this build was just a triple threat, but apparently it's close to a quadruple threat. At least the balance in this build comes from being useless at mid levels.
Griffin34
08-14-05, 03:24 PM I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen.
slade_caizer
08-14-05, 04:54 PM UrPriest requires a base fort save of +3 while Wizard 6 gives +2.

@Taeldrin Laesrash:
I can't say for certain. Can you recall from memory the THAC0 tables from AD&D? When you say THAC0, do you say THACKOW or THACKZERO?

Thanks. I knew there was a reason I normally threw in 1 level of Monk or Fighter.
Vorlir
08-14-05, 09:19 PM I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen.

You make a valid point, but on the CO board I've noticed rp means basically diddly squat. If its legal by RAW then it is acceptable on the CO board.
Erudite
08-14-05, 09:44 PM That's because a good, creative player can roleplay anything. You may not see how Wiz/Rog/Bard/Ur-P/etc. fits together, but someone else may.
Shandrakor
08-15-05, 04:25 AM I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen.

BAD ROLEPLAYER! BAD! I'll have you know that a good optimizer Min/Maxxes not only his mathematical, quantifiable BAB, Saves, Manifesting, etc, but also his FLUFF. Fluff is one of the most important parts of optimization, and the only way of ensuring that your Feral Mineral Warrior Anthromorphic Baleen Whale/Barb/Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf is allowed into the game.

If you think that's sick, check out the Killer Gnome with 150% real Shadow Conjurations & Evocations, any number of pure Artificer, Cleric & Druid builds, or Mr. Icy Hot.
Lilt
08-15-05, 05:08 AM BAD ROLEPLAYER! BAD! I'll have you know that a good optimizer Min/Maxxes not only his mathematical, quantifiable BAB, Saves, Manifesting, etc, but also his FLUFF. Fluff is one of the most important parts of optimization, and the only way of ensuring that your Feral Mineral Warrior Anthromorphic Baleen Whale/Barb/Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf is allowed into the game.A-men to that. I've had to come up with some fairly far-out backgrounds for Air Variant (UA) Feral Anthromorphic Giant Squid Psychic Warriors, Feral Human Human-Paragon/Psychic Warrior/Ur Priests, Slaad Monks, and even Elven Archers ( :P ) over the years. I've always managed it though, and it's worth noting that GMs are far more likely to allow something through weird through if they are consulted on it first (IE: where in your world is there a lot of contact with the elemental plane of air?)
ArochanoX
08-15-05, 03:58 PM Class optimization is DM's nightmare. I hope that in my campaings characters are not optimized for gameplay. Optimization and rules-twitching should be just intellect training and for fun, not for actual play because it's broken.

But back to the topic.
Varenal thanks for noticing that this build is also a quadruple threat. Though you'll need very evil amount of skillpoints to achieve also hiding threat.

Then I noticed that the last level of wizard near 10th level could be a level of dweomerkeeper. It would be quite nice indeed.
RogerWilco
08-15-05, 04:49 PM Not optimal, but I find this a fun build:
Ranger9/Druid1/Bard2/FochlucanLyrist8
Very combat oriented dual caster, playable at all levels, and doesn't need a background that requires Quiche eating.
Oh, and loads of skillpoints ;)
Taeldrin Laesrash
08-15-05, 07:27 PM No Quiche-eating? Bad user! Bad! And yeah, just because it has alot of different combinations doesn't mean it has a terrible backstory.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArochanoX 08-11-05, 04:02 PM	So here's the problem: How to get 16 base attack bonus, level 9 arcane spells and level 9 divine spells. Here's my solution: 1 rogue 2 rogue 2 rogue / 1 bard 2 rogue / 1 bard / 1 wizard 2 rogue / 1 bard / 2 wizard 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 1 ur-priest 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord / 1 focluchan lyrist . . . 2 rogue / 1 bard / 3 wizard / 1 druid / 2 ur-priest / 1 dragonslayer / 1 mystic theurge / 1 sublime chord / 8 focluchan lyrist When using fractional bab, this build gains solid +16 bab. lvl bab arcane divine 1 0,75 - - 2 1,50 - - 3 2,25 - - 4 2,75 1 - 5 3,25 1 - 6 3,75 2 - 7 4,50 2 - 8 5,25 2 1 9 6,00 2 2 10 7,00 2 2 11 7,50 3 3 12 8,00 45 3 13 9,00 5 4 14 10,00 6 5 15 11,00 6 6 16 12,00 7 7 17 13,00 7 8 18 14,00 8 9 19 15,00 8 9 20 16,00 9 9 You need to be human because you need the feat able learner if you don't want to spent enormous recources to skillpoints on cross-class skills.
scout989 08-11-05, 04:06 PM	Y'know, I had a question about the FL when I picked up CAdv, and I never got around to asking it (though I suppose your build pretty much answers it for me, I'll ask just to double check): can you use the Speak Language skill to learn Druidic if you don't have druid levels?
ArochanoX 08-11-05, 04:09 PM	propably not, you'd want to think it as a class ability to druid. Though this character has 1 level of druid, so that doesn't matter. As doesn't the feats. This build requires only 3 feats. Total. 2 for ur-priest and 1 for dragonslayer.
Jolly Josh 08-11-05, 04:17 PM	you have to be evil... and thats no fun :(
Muddman 08-11-05, 06:44 PM	Whats fractional bab? I've never heard of it
Verenal 08-11-05, 07:00 PM	Fractional BAB is an optional rule in the unearthed arcana (I think) that makes BAB more multiclassing friendly. Basically, for every class that has the BAB of a fighter, you get +1 BAB, for every class that has the BAB of a cleric, you get +3/4 BAB, and for every class that has BAB like a wizard, you get ½ BAB. These are added together and rounded down in actual play. For example a cleric 1 / rogue 3 / druid 1 normally has BAB +2 (+0 from cleric, +2 from rogue and +0 from druid). With fractional BAB he gets 1 * 3/4 from cleric, 3 * 3/4 from rogue and 1 * 3/4 from druid. This equals 4+3/4 points of BAB.
Lilt 08-11-05, 07:43 PM	Fractional BAB is the easy way. Real men don't use fractional BAB. Then-again, real men don't use this build: Bard 4/Fighter 1/UrP 2/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword 1/Spelldancer 2/Sublime Chord 2/Fl 7 Don't be fooled by the presence of Fighter and Dragonslayer. Only a Quiche-eater would play a build including the words 'Bard', 'dancer', 'sublime', 'lyrist', and possibly even 'fochlucan' because it sounds like it may be some form of Quiche.
Lilt 08-11-05, 07:51 PM	Savage Bard 7/Ur Priest 1/Master Thrower 2/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 That works if you're allowed a flaw, but real men don't take flaws either. Real men might be persuaded to play savage bards, however, as savage bards don't eat quiche.
Axle_Steelcat 08-11-05, 08:05 PM	Where is Spelldancer from?
Taeldrin Laesrash 08-11-05, 08:48 PM	Magic of Faerun. And buy the way, I use flaws, use Fractional BAB, and the words 'sublime', 'bard', and 'lyrist' in my characters. Am I a Quiche-eating wussy? Huh? Huh?!
Nifft 08-11-05, 09:01 PM	Am I a Quiche-eating wussy? Huh? Huh?! Do you have wussy double-vowel sounds in your name? Oh, I see... never mind then... -- N
Dr Durothil 08-11-05, 09:07 PM	Hahaha, funny stuff. Nice work ArochanoX.
ancalimohtar 08-11-05, 10:57 PM	Using fractional BAB is silly when you're claiming to optimize BAB.
slade_caizer 08-11-05, 11:17 PM	Fractional BAB is very convenient, and as long as your DM is allowing it that's a great and beautiful thing. Fortunately or unfortunately, there are a lot of people who play only core, using no variants or at least not that one. So while that's a nice, if random-looking, build for use with fractional BAB. Without using fractional BAB though, I don't believe that thing can hold water. Fighter1/Wizard5/Ur-Priest2/MysticTheurge8/Archmage4 Will only give you a BAB of around 10, but as soon as you cast Divine Power via Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) you'll have full BAB, a Str boost, and some bonus HP for the whole day. Cast it before you go to sleep or after you've prepared for the day. As for finding that in a normal build, it's unlikely. Being that accomplished martially and having full casting in two types of magic is a bit much to want.
ArochanoX 08-12-05, 04:35 AM	Just noticed that the one level of mystic theurge is not needed. You can replace it with any arcane spellcasting class that gives one level of arcane spells. You can have pure wizard or take something like red wizard or incantantrix.
Lilt 08-12-05, 04:56 AM	Wizard6/Ur-Priest2/MysticTheurge8/Archmage4 Will only give you a BAB of 10, but as soon as you cast Divine Power via Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) you'll have full BAB, a Str boost, and some bonus HP for the whole day. Cast it before you go to sleep or after you've prepared for the day.UrPriest requires a base fort save of +3 while Wizard 6 gives +2. @Taeldrin Laesrash: I can't say for certain. Can you recall from memory the THAC0 tables from AD&D? When you say THAC0, do you say THACKOW or THACKZERO?
Nicepants42 08-12-05, 08:30 AM	Quiche = Eggs + Spinach + Pie Crust. Eggs = Protien Spinach = HUGE fore-arms + Awesome strength boost Pie Crust = carbs In short, quiche is an ass-kicking-in-a-pie just waiting to be put to good use - and is eaten by real men every day. Don't dis' quiche, it will pwnzor joo.
Tweedledope 08-12-05, 09:05 AM	Don't be fooled by the presence of Fighter and Dragonslayer. Only a Quiche-eater would play a build including the words 'Bard', 'dancer', 'sublime', 'lyrist', and possibly even 'fochlucan' because it sounds like it may be some form of Quiche. ROTFLMFAO!! :rofl: :rofl:
Nezu Chiza 08-12-05, 12:05 PM	Interesting. Fractional BAB lets you become BETTER at attacking by not focusing on any class that actually TEACHES you to attack better. So you could be Cleric 1/Druid 1/Wizard 1 and actually have a higher BAB than a Fighter 1. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yep yep, sure does. Pardon me while I go construct houses simply because I spent several years alternately playing with Lego's, Lincoln Logs, and Erector Sets.
Alansmithee 08-12-05, 12:19 PM	Quiche = Eggs + Spinach + Pie Crust. Eggs = Protien Spinach = HUGE fore-arms + Awesome strength boost Pie Crust = carbs In short, quiche is an ass-kicking-in-a-pie just waiting to be put to good use - and is eaten by real men every day. Don't dis' quiche, it will pwnzor joo. Quiche doesn't have to have spinach iirc. And a real man doesn't need some pansy pie crust to hold his eggs and spinach, he eats/drinks them raw. All the quiche does is girly-fy two manly ingredients.
Taenia 08-12-05, 12:38 PM	Actually if you use fractional attack right it will come out worse than a fighter cause you round down and do so after you add in all the levels. So a cleric/druid/rogue would be 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 = 9/4 = 2 1/4 = 2. If you did a cleric/rogue/wizard it would be 3/4 + 3/4 + 2/4 = 8/4 = 2 as well. You will still lose base attack bonus from non "fighter" type levels but if you go rogue/cleric or some other non "fighter" classes you wont shoot yourself in the foot for bab cause of the inability of wotc writers to include simple fractional calculation in their books.
Taeldrin Laesrash 08-12-05, 01:13 PM	Wow, I never knew there were so many Ahnolds here. I pronounced it as follows: THAC-Long O. When it comes to Fractional BAB, it's a bit redundant to compare such things as a Cleric 1/ Rogue 1/ Bard 1 to a Fighter 3 because a Fighter (Or other Good BAB progressions such as a Barbarian or Hexblade) is designed to have the maximum chance to hit a foe.
Sang-Drax 08-12-05, 01:40 PM	:heehee: I never knew anyone that didn't say THACOW... I mean, I pronounced something like that, but without thw "W". I don't know if you'll get my meaning, but hey, I speak Portuguese, after all... it wasn't meant to be understood :P Erm... what was this thread about, anyway? Oh, yes, right! Quiche, right?
Axle_Steelcat 08-12-05, 01:56 PM	<wrong thread>
jameswilliamogle 08-12-05, 03:49 PM	he eats/drinks them raw.i didn't know that their were Rules as Written directions on eating/drinking eggs and spinach... hmmm... have to consult my dm...
Shandrakor 08-13-05, 02:19 AM	i didn't know that their were Rules as Written directions on eating/drinking eggs and spinach... hmmm... have to consult my dm... Remember, it's not the RAW that matter, it's the RAI...dirty, dirty quiche-eaters. Your DM might be a quiche-eater! :eek:
BarbeChenue 08-13-05, 03:01 AM	Not eating quiche because of the name is not manly. Real men eat what's good for them and don't get bugged by the name, and at least they try it before whining. ;) And quiche may contain spinach or ham. I really like quiche, among the best things you can do with golden crust and eggs. Try it! :cool: <--- Is from Québec and likes quiche.
Rim-Soulfang 08-13-05, 05:24 AM	Isn't quiche a bit offtopic? Or is it an unwritten prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist?
Zubon 08-13-05, 10:44 AM	Isn't quiche a bit offtopic? Or is it an unwritten prereq for Fochlucan Lyrist? Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills.
LightAcolyte 08-13-05, 11:22 AM	Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills. And who wouldn't want that?? ;)
ArochanoX 08-14-05, 11:31 AM	Quiche is perfectly on-topic, because what we really want is a character with "4 attacks and lvl 9 arcane & divine spells!" and maxed ranks in Profession (Cook), preferably with a way to deal damage with cooking skills. :lol: Never knew about that. The build on the first post is a bit flawed because of ur-priest's fortitude save presquite. But it's not important because you can take one level in dragonslayer before ur-priest so you gain the required fort. So it should be instead: 1 rogue 2 rogue 3 bard 4 wizard 5 wizard 6 wizard 7 druid 8 dragonslayer 9 ur-priest 10 ur-priest 11 wizard 12 sublime chord 13 focluchan lyrist . . . 20 focluchan lyrist
Verenal 08-14-05, 03:00 PM	ArochanoX, i just noticed that if you have enough skill points you can even play the part of a rogue in hide / move silently / search / disable device department. I thought this build was just a triple threat, but apparently it's close to a quadruple threat. At least the balance in this build comes from being useless at mid levels.
Griffin34 08-14-05, 03:24 PM	I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen.
slade_caizer 08-14-05, 04:54 PM	UrPriest requires a base fort save of +3 while Wizard 6 gives +2. @Taeldrin Laesrash: I can't say for certain. Can you recall from memory the THAC0 tables from AD&D? When you say THAC0, do you say THACKOW or THACKZERO? Thanks. I knew there was a reason I normally threw in 1 level of Monk or Fighter.
Vorlir 08-14-05, 09:19 PM	I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen. You make a valid point, but on the CO board I've noticed rp means basically diddly squat. If its legal by RAW then it is acceptable on the CO board.
Erudite 08-14-05, 09:44 PM	That's because a good, creative player can roleplay anything. You may not see how Wiz/Rog/Bard/Ur-P/etc. fits together, but someone else may.
Shandrakor 08-15-05, 04:25 AM	I would never allow a Player to play such a ridiculous class combination unless you gave a damn good rp reason and stuck to it. Although really powerful, that's one of the most outrageous things I've ever seen. BAD ROLEPLAYER! BAD! I'll have you know that a good optimizer Min/Maxxes not only his mathematical, quantifiable BAB, Saves, Manifesting, etc, but also his FLUFF. Fluff is one of the most important parts of optimization, and the only way of ensuring that your Feral Mineral Warrior Anthromorphic Baleen Whale/Barb/Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf is allowed into the game. If you think that's sick, check out the Killer Gnome with 150% real Shadow Conjurations & Evocations, any number of pure Artificer, Cleric & Druid builds, or Mr. Icy Hot.
Lilt 08-15-05, 05:08 AM	BAD ROLEPLAYER! BAD! I'll have you know that a good optimizer Min/Maxxes not only his mathematical, quantifiable BAB, Saves, Manifesting, etc, but also his FLUFF. Fluff is one of the most important parts of optimization, and the only way of ensuring that your Feral Mineral Warrior Anthromorphic Baleen Whale/Barb/Frenzied Berserker/Champion of Gwynharwyf is allowed into the game.A-men to that. I've had to come up with some fairly far-out backgrounds for Air Variant (UA) Feral Anthromorphic Giant Squid Psychic Warriors, Feral Human Human-Paragon/Psychic Warrior/Ur Priests, Slaad Monks, and even Elven Archers ( :P ) over the years. I've always managed it though, and it's worth noting that GMs are far more likely to allow something through weird through if they are consulted on it first (IE: where in your world is there a lot of contact with the elemental plane of air?)
ArochanoX 08-15-05, 03:58 PM	Class optimization is DM's nightmare. I hope that in my campaings characters are not optimized for gameplay. Optimization and rules-twitching should be just intellect training and for fun, not for actual play because it's broken. But back to the topic. Varenal thanks for noticing that this build is also a quadruple threat. Though you'll need very evil amount of skillpoints to achieve also hiding threat. Then I noticed that the last level of wizard near 10th level could be a level of dweomerkeeper. It would be quite nice indeed.
RogerWilco 08-15-05, 04:49 PM	Not optimal, but I find this a fun build: Ranger9/Druid1/Bard2/FochlucanLyrist8 Very combat oriented dual caster, playable at all levels, and doesn't need a background that requires Quiche eating. Oh, and loads of skillpoints ;)
Taeldrin Laesrash 08-15-05, 07:27 PM	No Quiche-eating? Bad user! Bad! And yeah, just because it has alot of different combinations doesn't mean it has a terrible backstory.