40th level holy warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

40th level holy warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
keldorn
03-12-04, 10:55 AM 3.x
GM gives a free choice of race and d20/wotc sources.
I've not played epic level before. Is it better to go for something with a hunky ecl or for a relativelys tandard race? And do people have suggestions about class combinationts at thsi level etc?
TIA
Peter
Nick_Nameless
03-12-04, 11:14 AM Holy warrior = fighting undead, or Demons and Devils?
beavis123
03-12-04, 11:37 AM start at 1st level.

Create the holy warrior you want.

Games that start at 40th level, traditionally bomb.

Two reasons: You don't know how to handle the power.

The character becomes boring because he is not a character but a bundle of feats, skills, hp, and ac.

You will lose interest in about a week.
shamalamastreetman
03-12-04, 11:44 AM Don't listen to the pessimism in this thread, high level campaigns rock if you plan 'em out well.

The real concern is how to handle save or die, or no save situations. Our house rules are, there are saves for ALL effects. And death spells deal damage the same as a maximized damage spell of equal level.

As for the character concept, play Solar as a race! :) Spell casters are also the most fun at high levels, so get some spell casting levels in there.

Enjoy!
Nick_Nameless
03-12-04, 11:47 AM What would the ECl of a Solar be? I thought of suggesting it, but I couldn't find that. Also, would the GM automatically give you the cool Solar toys?

P.S. I agree...high level campaigns rock. Still wonder about the demons or the undead?
beavis123
03-12-04, 11:51 AM Inventing house rules where you don't die from death spells.

Like I said, your game will collapse in a week.
shamalamastreetman
03-12-04, 11:53 AM If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)!
shamalamastreetman
03-12-04, 12:11 PM Epic was really a patch added to 3e d20. The level vs power system has not been reworked since Gary Gygax's 1970's vision... that by ECL 14, you retire.

By 3e we have a wonderful mantra of "create and then over create"... what I mean is, ok so we have a level playing field of spells vs saves. But now wizards want power spells with no saves. But wait, some creatures need super spell defense, so we get SR. Oh wait, now we want uber spell casting, with spell penetration.... c'mon where does it end? I expect to see SGSR (super godlike spell resistance) soon, where spell penetration has no meaning.

Alas, but I digress. In order to have a smooth progression of power (not exponential) past level 10, you need house rules. If you really study the epic spell system, you'll find that lots of level 8 & 9 spells are way more powerful than epic spells.

Besides the above 2 house rules for coping with an exponential magic system, you may want to try SR converts to saving throw bonus of +1 per 3 SR (bonus to saves vs spells only mind you).

Peace!
keldorn
03-12-04, 12:47 PM Originally posted by Nick_Nameless
Holy warrior = fighting undead, or Demons and Devils?
The enemy is "an ancient evil" so could be anything.
I was opting for holy warrior as I've not run a 3.x character who could cast more than low level spells.
I've run 1st ed up to 8th Mu, 7th cle, 7th dru, 6th ill or thereabouts, but the spell descriptions have changed too ,much for me to be able to assume everything would be hunky-dory
keldorn
03-12-04, 12:53 PM Originally posted by beavis123
start at 1st level.

Create the holy warrior you want.

Games that start at 40th level, traditionally bomb.

Two reasons: You don't know how to handle the power.

The character becomes boring because he is not a character but a bundle of feats, skills, hp, and ac.

You will lose interest in about a week.
Thanks for the warning. But I play pbem and the holy warrior will be lucky to get to 2nd level before the game disappears.

Games which involve drow as the enemy or the PCs also seem to stop very quickly, I've noticed.

What I might do is munchkinise a character whose game has folded. Unfortunately there isn't really a holy warrior that I've played long enough. I could play with my follower of Apollo and go for an archer/diviner/bard/divine oracle combination. But that would be a different thread.
keldorn
03-12-04, 12:59 PM Originally posted by shamalamastreetman
If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)!

I'll have a look at those. Thanks.

And thanks for your other comments too.

As I've not had previous contact with the GM, I think I'll let him (her) play with houserules him/herself. The advantage of pbem is he can fiddle the die rolls in secret.
blackbrrrd
03-12-04, 01:31 PM Currently running a campaign from level 1-10. Told this to the players before created the characters. Made the players create the 1st and 10th level character. Checked that they were balanced at both 1st and 10th level. Made a huge mistake, tripping in 3.5 is... bad! The same with reach when enlarged (1st level spell). The changes I made were as following: 10' reach with spiked chain even while enlarged (not 20'). No attack of opportunity when standing up. Before those two changes the spiked chain tripper was a walking fireball!
keldorn
03-12-04, 01:38 PM Originally posted by shamalamastreetman
If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)!

Can't fond an ECL for Solar. Is there a soure for epic ECLs?
samoosa691
03-12-04, 02:14 PM that's because you can't play a solar, level adjustment = / which means npc only. level 40, boring.
Nick_Nameless
03-12-04, 02:22 PM Originally posted by samoosa691
that's because you can't play a solar, level adjustment = / which means npc only. level 40, boring.

Because Level 20 is soo weak :rolleyes:

Level 40 isn't boring. It's more flexible :D
Quijin
03-12-04, 10:42 PM I would like to apologize for going off topic but something is really irritating me..

Beavis123, this is the second time that i have seen you on a thread and you have been negative and hindering the Optimization of the current thread. Why do you insist on interjecting on a thread to tell some one that the campaign idea is horrible, or that it will bomb? No one is asking your opinion, so plz do not offer it.

-Quijin:tiphat:
beavis123
03-13-04, 06:28 AM The people who start these threads should put a disclaimer that reads " send only replies to totally agree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I am not be negative on purpose, I am just pointing out the truth.

If the truth hurts, sorry.

There is nothing wrong with high level adventures, but without a basis, they last for a week and then everyone drops out.

Just my opinion.
pawsplay
03-13-04, 06:45 AM Heironeous in Deities & Demigods is a Paladin 20/Cleric 20. You could worse than to follow his example.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
keldorn 03-12-04, 10:55 AM	3.x GM gives a free choice of race and d20/wotc sources. I've not played epic level before. Is it better to go for something with a hunky ecl or for a relativelys tandard race? And do people have suggestions about class combinationts at thsi level etc? TIA Peter
Nick_Nameless 03-12-04, 11:14 AM	Holy warrior = fighting undead, or Demons and Devils?
beavis123 03-12-04, 11:37 AM	start at 1st level. Create the holy warrior you want. Games that start at 40th level, traditionally bomb. Two reasons: You don't know how to handle the power. The character becomes boring because he is not a character but a bundle of feats, skills, hp, and ac. You will lose interest in about a week.
shamalamastreetman 03-12-04, 11:44 AM	Don't listen to the pessimism in this thread, high level campaigns rock if you plan 'em out well. The real concern is how to handle save or die, or no save situations. Our house rules are, there are saves for ALL effects. And death spells deal damage the same as a maximized damage spell of equal level. As for the character concept, play Solar as a race! :) Spell casters are also the most fun at high levels, so get some spell casting levels in there. Enjoy!
Nick_Nameless 03-12-04, 11:47 AM	What would the ECl of a Solar be? I thought of suggesting it, but I couldn't find that. Also, would the GM automatically give you the cool Solar toys? P.S. I agree...high level campaigns rock. Still wonder about the demons or the undead?
beavis123 03-12-04, 11:51 AM	Inventing house rules where you don't die from death spells. Like I said, your game will collapse in a week.
shamalamastreetman 03-12-04, 11:53 AM	If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)!
shamalamastreetman 03-12-04, 12:11 PM	Epic was really a patch added to 3e d20. The level vs power system has not been reworked since Gary Gygax's 1970's vision... that by ECL 14, you retire. By 3e we have a wonderful mantra of "create and then over create"... what I mean is, ok so we have a level playing field of spells vs saves. But now wizards want power spells with no saves. But wait, some creatures need super spell defense, so we get SR. Oh wait, now we want uber spell casting, with spell penetration.... c'mon where does it end? I expect to see SGSR (super godlike spell resistance) soon, where spell penetration has no meaning. Alas, but I digress. In order to have a smooth progression of power (not exponential) past level 10, you need house rules. If you really study the epic spell system, you'll find that lots of level 8 & 9 spells are way more powerful than epic spells. Besides the above 2 house rules for coping with an exponential magic system, you may want to try SR converts to saving throw bonus of +1 per 3 SR (bonus to saves vs spells only mind you). Peace!
keldorn 03-12-04, 12:47 PM	Originally posted by Nick_Nameless Holy warrior = fighting undead, or Demons and Devils? The enemy is "an ancient evil" so could be anything. I was opting for holy warrior as I've not run a 3.x character who could cast more than low level spells. I've run 1st ed up to 8th Mu, 7th cle, 7th dru, 6th ill or thereabouts, but the spell descriptions have changed too ,much for me to be able to assume everything would be hunky-dory
keldorn 03-12-04, 12:53 PM	Originally posted by beavis123 start at 1st level. Create the holy warrior you want. Games that start at 40th level, traditionally bomb. Two reasons: You don't know how to handle the power. The character becomes boring because he is not a character but a bundle of feats, skills, hp, and ac. You will lose interest in about a week. Thanks for the warning. But I play pbem and the holy warrior will be lucky to get to 2nd level before the game disappears. Games which involve drow as the enemy or the PCs also seem to stop very quickly, I've noticed. What I might do is munchkinise a character whose game has folded. Unfortunately there isn't really a holy warrior that I've played long enough. I could play with my follower of Apollo and go for an archer/diviner/bard/divine oracle combination. But that would be a different thread.
keldorn 03-12-04, 12:59 PM	Originally posted by shamalamastreetman If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)! I'll have a look at those. Thanks. And thanks for your other comments too. As I've not had previous contact with the GM, I think I'll let him (her) play with houserules him/herself. The advantage of pbem is he can fiddle the die rolls in secret.
blackbrrrd 03-12-04, 01:31 PM	Currently running a campaign from level 1-10. Told this to the players before created the characters. Made the players create the 1st and 10th level character. Checked that they were balanced at both 1st and 10th level. Made a huge mistake, tripping in 3.5 is... bad! The same with reach when enlarged (1st level spell). The changes I made were as following: 10' reach with spiked chain even while enlarged (not 20'). No attack of opportunity when standing up. Before those two changes the spiked chain tripper was a walking fireball!
keldorn 03-12-04, 01:38 PM	Originally posted by shamalamastreetman If you want to really be gross (in terms of numbers), play a Pseudonatural Solar (ELH & MM1)! Can't fond an ECL for Solar. Is there a soure for epic ECLs?
samoosa691 03-12-04, 02:14 PM	that's because you can't play a solar, level adjustment = / which means npc only. level 40, boring.
Nick_Nameless 03-12-04, 02:22 PM	Originally posted by samoosa691 that's because you can't play a solar, level adjustment = / which means npc only. level 40, boring. Because Level 20 is soo weak :rolleyes: Level 40 isn't boring. It's more flexible :D
Quijin 03-12-04, 10:42 PM	I would like to apologize for going off topic but something is really irritating me.. Beavis123, this is the second time that i have seen you on a thread and you have been negative and hindering the Optimization of the current thread. Why do you insist on interjecting on a thread to tell some one that the campaign idea is horrible, or that it will bomb? No one is asking your opinion, so plz do not offer it. -Quijin:tiphat:
beavis123 03-13-04, 06:28 AM	The people who start these threads should put a disclaimer that reads " send only replies to totally agree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I am not be negative on purpose, I am just pointing out the truth. If the truth hurts, sorry. There is nothing wrong with high level adventures, but without a basis, they last for a week and then everyone drops out. Just my opinion.
pawsplay 03-13-04, 06:45 AM	Heironeous in Deities & Demigods is a Paladin 20/Cleric 20. You could worse than to follow his example.