+48 unnamed bonus to str for under 20,000 gp [Archive] - Wizards Community

+48 unnamed bonus to str for under 20,000 gp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-07-05, 04:56 PM Two words: Savage Species. Two more: Permanent Spells. Add the two together and you get sickness. In savage species on the list of new permanent spells there is a pretty little combo: Fuse arms and gerillians blessing. They're right next to eachother on the list too. Gerillian's blessing grants you a number of arms based on your size, and fuse arms allows you to combine those arms together to gain a strength bonus (unnamed). I believe for every pair of arms fused you gain a + 3 strength bonus. Since both can be permanently cast you can gain the bonus permanently (subject to Mord's Disjunction, but still). The sick thing is that these are low level spells and are therefore cheap to get.

Ok, for a normal campaign that allows just the core 3 and savage species: a medium character can get +12 unnamed bonus to strength for the low cost of about 18,000 gold. First he is enlarged, then he is granted 4 extra pairs of arms permanently via Gerillians blessing. Then, those arms are permantly fused back into two arms for +12 (3 * 4 pairs). I could be wrong on the exact #, but I know the bonus ranges from 8 to 12 (we actually used this in our campaign). The character is then reduced so that he can fit into dungeons without a problem. (he still retains the strength bonus)

Now, approaching insanity. A caster with UMD (or a wu jen) can increase her size to collosal via scroll of Giant Size and get even more arms (as the number is based off of arms) I don't know how many arms this grants but lets say 16 pairs. That equates to 48 extra strength (if you do get +3 per pair).

EDIT: the warshaper thing has been taken out, so this thread should now be named how to get +38 unnamed strenght bonus for under 20,000 gp.
fnord
10-07-05, 05:43 PM Or festering anger + either restoration spells or Cancer Mage. And that can't be dispelled, and doesn't have weird spell-stacking or "What exactly defines an arm?" issues.
tsuyoshikentsu
10-07-05, 11:26 PM Yes, we know about the Cancer Mage, but really, if I hear "Cancer Mage" one more time I'm going to hurt someone.

Besides, this is somethign you can do fairly simply that doesn't involve getting a disease and/or being a psionic.
Caelic
10-07-05, 11:43 PM Technically, no--the Warshaper trick won't work. By the RAW, he can only grow a morphic weapon if he doesn't already have a weapon of that type. If he DOES have a weapon of that type, it instead increases in size.

Since Fuse Limbs requires pairs of limbs to work, this is a no-go.
Nightspirit
10-08-05, 08:23 AM this trick doesn't work.

1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks
2. girallon' s blessing and fuse arms have a range of touch that is not considered a fixed range(I know, it is a stupid rule, but read the FAQ..) and its not personal...so you can't apply persistent spell to they... you can obviate with two continuous wondrous items(5*3*2000*1.5)/2=22500 gp)
jedrious
10-08-05, 11:53 AM this trick doesn't work.

1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks
2. girallon' s blessing and fuse arms have a range of touch that is not considered a fixed range(I know, it is a stupid rule, but read the FAQ..) and its not personal...so you can't apply persistent spell to they... you can obviate with two continuous wondrous items(5*3*2000*1.5)/2=22500 gp)
PERMANENT ala Permanancy spell not persistant
Nightspirit
10-08-05, 12:51 PM PERMANENT ala Permanancy spell not persistant

uh, if it so, forget the 2. point of my previous post :D :D (but this doesn't change anything...the trick still doesn't works...)
Ske
10-08-05, 01:34 PM 1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks

If I'm not mistaken, it's one unnamed bonus of +(3 per pair of arms), so get the arms first and then fuse.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-08-05, 02:33 PM right... I hadn't said that multiple uses of the spell would stack with itself. but one use of the spell does provide at least 12 unnamed str bonus. Even more if you get yourself up to collosal. I thought the warshaper trick might work, but now I see that it doesn't. Oh well. Still for the low cost of around 18,000 gp you cant beat that kind of strength bonus. It of course would stack with tomes, enchantments, and the like because it is unnamed. I guess that was the main purpose of the thread. The warshaper thing was just a silly idea that I had spur of the moment while writing about the more concrete aspects of the spell.
Nightspirit
10-08-05, 03:28 PM if you want to min/max this tricks: take a darktentacles, cast giant size(up to colossal), cast girallon's blessing and then fuse arms...now, the darktentacles have 36 tentacles+8 arms=44/2=22 pairs of arms...21*4=+84 strength bonus

for a total of 84+32=+116 bonus on strength ;)

girallon's blessing can create a maximum of 4 additional pairs of arms
Urnsk
10-08-05, 11:50 PM It's +4 Str per pair of fused arms.

GB grants up to 4 arms for a Huge or larger creature.

I also don't see anywhere in Fuse Arms or GB where it says that either spell can be made permanent via permanency.

Still, 2 spells for +16 strength isn't bad, especially if you managed to Giant Size yourself for +32 str beforehand.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-09-05, 02:10 AM Like I said I don't have a copy of Savage Species on me right now, but look at the table for new permanancy spells and it's right in there. Along with another completely broken permanency spell: greater resistance, which grants +6 to saves (the permancy NPC casting only costs around 13,000 gold which is way cheaper than a cloak that grants +5 and takes up an item slot).
aelryinth
10-09-05, 03:26 AM ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB.

==Aelryinth
jedrious
10-09-05, 03:36 AM ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB.

==AelryinthSavage Species Pg 60 Permanency and Savage Species Spells
gabrion
10-09-05, 03:37 AM ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB.

==Aelryinth

I think some of you are missing the rules reference here. On page 60 of SS it has a table saying what new spells from that book can be made permanent. Fuse Arms and Girallon's Blession are both listed.

Edit: I was beat to the punch!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-07-05, 04:56 PM	Two words: Savage Species. Two more: Permanent Spells. Add the two together and you get sickness. In savage species on the list of new permanent spells there is a pretty little combo: Fuse arms and gerillians blessing. They're right next to eachother on the list too. Gerillian's blessing grants you a number of arms based on your size, and fuse arms allows you to combine those arms together to gain a strength bonus (unnamed). I believe for every pair of arms fused you gain a + 3 strength bonus. Since both can be permanently cast you can gain the bonus permanently (subject to Mord's Disjunction, but still). The sick thing is that these are low level spells and are therefore cheap to get. Ok, for a normal campaign that allows just the core 3 and savage species: a medium character can get +12 unnamed bonus to strength for the low cost of about 18,000 gold. First he is enlarged, then he is granted 4 extra pairs of arms permanently via Gerillians blessing. Then, those arms are permantly fused back into two arms for +12 (3 * 4 pairs). I could be wrong on the exact #, but I know the bonus ranges from 8 to 12 (we actually used this in our campaign). The character is then reduced so that he can fit into dungeons without a problem. (he still retains the strength bonus) Now, approaching insanity. A caster with UMD (or a wu jen) can increase her size to collosal via scroll of Giant Size and get even more arms (as the number is based off of arms) I don't know how many arms this grants but lets say 16 pairs. That equates to 48 extra strength (if you do get +3 per pair). EDIT: the warshaper thing has been taken out, so this thread should now be named how to get +38 unnamed strenght bonus for under 20,000 gp.
fnord 10-07-05, 05:43 PM	Or festering anger + either restoration spells or Cancer Mage. And that can't be dispelled, and doesn't have weird spell-stacking or "What exactly defines an arm?" issues.
tsuyoshikentsu 10-07-05, 11:26 PM	Yes, we know about the Cancer Mage, but really, if I hear "Cancer Mage" one more time I'm going to hurt someone. Besides, this is somethign you can do fairly simply that doesn't involve getting a disease and/or being a psionic.
Caelic 10-07-05, 11:43 PM	Technically, no--the Warshaper trick won't work. By the RAW, he can only grow a morphic weapon if he doesn't already have a weapon of that type. If he DOES have a weapon of that type, it instead increases in size. Since Fuse Limbs requires pairs of limbs to work, this is a no-go.
Nightspirit 10-08-05, 08:23 AM	this trick doesn't work. 1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks 2. girallon' s blessing and fuse arms have a range of touch that is not considered a fixed range(I know, it is a stupid rule, but read the FAQ..) and its not personal...so you can't apply persistent spell to they... you can obviate with two continuous wondrous items(532000*1.5)/2=22500 gp)
jedrious 10-08-05, 11:53 AM	this trick doesn't work. 1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks 2. girallon' s blessing and fuse arms have a range of touch that is not considered a fixed range(I know, it is a stupid rule, but read the FAQ..) and its not personal...so you can't apply persistent spell to they... you can obviate with two continuous wondrous items(532000*1.5)/2=22500 gp) PERMANENT ala Permanancy spell not persistant
Nightspirit 10-08-05, 12:51 PM	PERMANENT ala Permanancy spell not persistant uh, if it so, forget the 2. point of my previous post :D :D (but this doesn't change anything...the trick still doesn't works...)
Ske 10-08-05, 01:34 PM	1. unnamed bonus that came from the same source doesn't stacks If I'm not mistaken, it's one unnamed bonus of +(3 per pair of arms), so get the arms first and then fuse.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-08-05, 02:33 PM	right... I hadn't said that multiple uses of the spell would stack with itself. but one use of the spell does provide at least 12 unnamed str bonus. Even more if you get yourself up to collosal. I thought the warshaper trick might work, but now I see that it doesn't. Oh well. Still for the low cost of around 18,000 gp you cant beat that kind of strength bonus. It of course would stack with tomes, enchantments, and the like because it is unnamed. I guess that was the main purpose of the thread. The warshaper thing was just a silly idea that I had spur of the moment while writing about the more concrete aspects of the spell.
Nightspirit 10-08-05, 03:28 PM	if you want to min/max this tricks: take a darktentacles, cast giant size(up to colossal), cast girallon's blessing and then fuse arms...now, the darktentacles have 36 tentacles+8 arms=44/2=22 pairs of arms...21*4=+84 strength bonus for a total of 84+32=+116 bonus on strength ;) girallon's blessing can create a maximum of 4 additional pairs of arms
Urnsk 10-08-05, 11:50 PM	It's +4 Str per pair of fused arms. GB grants up to 4 arms for a Huge or larger creature. I also don't see anywhere in Fuse Arms or GB where it says that either spell can be made permanent via permanency. Still, 2 spells for +16 strength isn't bad, especially if you managed to Giant Size yourself for +32 str beforehand.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-09-05, 02:10 AM	Like I said I don't have a copy of Savage Species on me right now, but look at the table for new permanancy spells and it's right in there. Along with another completely broken permanency spell: greater resistance, which grants +6 to saves (the permancy NPC casting only costs around 13,000 gold which is way cheaper than a cloak that grants +5 and takes up an item slot).
aelryinth 10-09-05, 03:26 AM	ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB. ==Aelryinth
jedrious 10-09-05, 03:36 AM	ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB. ==AelryinthSavage Species Pg 60 Permanency and Savage Species Spells
gabrion 10-09-05, 03:37 AM	ANd I don't believe you can permanency any kind of personal spell unless it says so in the spell descrip OR is listed as such in the PHB. ==Aelryinth I think some of you are missing the rules reference here. On page 60 of SS it has a table saying what new spells from that book can be made permanent. Fuse Arms and Girallon's Blession are both listed. Edit: I was beat to the punch!