Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fergsta2 05-20-04, 04:00 PM	We are starting a campaign for 4th level, and I want to try to see what the most powerful character for fourth level. I don't know if I will be able to use it, but it would be fun to show up with a bunch of wild ideas using a 32 point buy and starting with 5400gp worth of items. It is pretty tough, things are pretty balanced. I was thinking a half-dragon-Orc barbarian or rogue, or a bugbear barbarian or rogue, or perhaps a fiendish hobgoblin or goblin rogue or barbarian. I would like to see what others can come up with. Thanks!
TheEmperor 05-20-04, 04:35 PM	A druid shines at all levels with no need for LA races. Plus, one more level until wildshape. The animal companion is like a free cohort fighter, and at least in the parties I have been in, fights almost as good as the main fighter.
fergsta2 05-20-04, 04:47 PM	yeah I suppose the new 3.5 druid is pretty sweet. I am not sure I want to play that mindset though. My main PC is a half-elf fighter/sorcerer, I was looking for something different to play, originally I was looking at halflings, gnomes, dwarves or goblins, something a bit different that a human-type character. My first idea was a ghostwise halfling rogue or fighter.
Mirror-Image 05-20-04, 06:21 PM	Half-Orc Barb1/MineralWarrior/Fighter2 (unearthed arcana to gain 2 feats at first level) Feats: two weapon fighting,PowerAttack,Snow Tiger Berserker WeaponFocus(shortsword), Power Lunge,Thick skinned(or improved ini for Occult slayer PrC) equipment: mirtal chain shirt +1 2x masterworked short sword YOU SHOULD TRY TO GET 2x SHORTSWORD +1 VALEROUS !!!! so you have: str: 16+2+2 dex 16+1level con 14+4 int 10-2-2 wis 8-2 cha 8-2 HP: 12+5,5+5,5+4*3 = 35 and DR:8/adamantit ( or 10/adamant) attack(charging) 3+5+1+2rage+2charge-2two weapon = 11/11 damage: d6+2*7 = 17,5 per hit this built gets realy nasty if you have the valerous weapon ability and get the feat HEADLONG RUSH from races of faerun -> you triple your damage -> you make 55,5 damage per hit !! if you hit with 3 attacks this means more then 150 points of damage. and we talk about level ~ 7 so at level 4 you have a good built i think and at level 7 with just the 2 shortsword with the valerous ability you a damn killing machine killing everything you hit later i suggest taking levels in Psiwarrior till level 4 -> a power that lets you make an extra move action -> every round you can make a charge after that Occult slayer is very good your countering magic attacks ( your weak point) and half-dragon template to increase your str. ( +2 str equals +6 damage per hit in this built) just that you know it you are able to make a full attack at the end of a charge due to the snow tiger berserker feat references: mineral warrior template - underdark vaerous weapon ability - unaproachable east snow tiger berserker feat - unaproachable east headlong rush feat - races of faerun occult slayer PrC - complete warrior
catharz 05-20-04, 06:58 PM	If you don't mind playing a character with a negative IQ... Feral [SS] Half-ogre [Drg 313] Half-minotaur [Drg 313] White dragonspawn [DLCS] Human (LA+3) Barbarian 1 Size: Large. Type: Monsterous humanoid (Augmented humanoid, Cold, also counts as Giant). AC: + 13. Speed: 60', fly 120' (Average). Attacks: Bite 1d6, 2 claws 2d6, Gore 1d8. Special attacks: Breath weapon - 2d6 cold/60' cone, Improved grab. Special qualities: Darkvision 60', Death throes, Fast healing 2, Low-light vision, Minotaur cunning, Scent, Spellcasting (Sorceror 1). Skills: +2 Search, Spot, and Listen. Feats: Track (B), can take Dragon feats. Ability scores: S+20, C+10, D-2, I-8, W+2, Ch+0. Ya... Wearing a suit of plate mail, your base AC will be 31. If you roll an 18 Str, you get a 38+14. And you can make 4 attacks per round. It is a bit of a glass dragon, with only 1 HD. However, with a decent score into Con you get almost as many HP as a Fighter of your ECL. And Fast healing helps. And flying 30' up and blasing your enemies with your breath helps. Monk 1/Swashbuckler 3 with the Kung fu genius feat (Dragon 319) is pretty cool too. But nowhere near in power. And remember, the minimum possible Int for a PC is 3. If you have a lower Int, it gets bumped up (see the DMG).
fergsta2 05-20-04, 07:25 PM	wow. That can't be an ECL 4! I don't have the dragonlance setting, will have to have a look, would that be useable in the FRCS?
fergsta2 05-20-04, 08:20 PM	The Orc Half-Dragon would look somethin like this with the 32pt buy: Grunnek Bloodeye: male Orc/Half-Red Dragon BBN1; HD 1d12+4; hp 16; ECL 4; Init +2; Spd 40 ft; AC 22 (+4 mithril shirt, +4 natural, +2 Dex, +2 Buckler); BAB/Grapple: +1/+8; Full Atks +10 melee(+9 two-handed) (1d8+8 +1 fire +1 electricity(one-handed); 1d8+13 + 1 fire +1 electricity(two-handed)/crit 19-20x2, MWK Morningstar); SA Rage 1/day; Breath Weapon AL CN; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +2; Str 24, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10. Feats: Weapon Focus (Morningstar) Special Attacks: Rage 1/day SA: Breath weapon(SU); 30ft cone 6d8 fire, DC 14 half Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft; low-light vision; Immune to fire, sleep, paralysis, orc traits, Fast Movement. Possessions: MWK Hizagkuur Morningstar, Mithril Shirt, +1 Buckler, +1 cloak of resistance.
Funny Slaughter 05-20-04, 09:43 PM	just nitpicking: if you use a buckler you get -1 to attack if wielding a weapon twohanded. i would say WF is a bad feat, go with something useful gs Funny
fergsta2 05-20-04, 10:05 PM	oh, I thought that was for 2 weapon fighting. what would u suggest as a more useful feat? fixed
fergsta2 05-21-04, 11:19 AM	Grunnek Bloodeye: male Feral Orc/Half-Minotaur/Half-Ogre/Mineral Warrior BBN1; HD 1d12+5; hp 17; ECL 4; Init +1; Spd 50ft/Burrow 50ft; Space/Reach 10/10; AC 29 (+4 mithril shirt, +13 natural, +1 Dex, +2 Buckler, -1 Size); BAB/Grapple: +1/+9; Full Atks +10 melee(+9 two-handed) (1d8+8 +1 fire +1 electricity(one-handed); 1d8+12 + 1 fire +1 electricity(two-handed)/crit 19-20x2, MWK Morningstar); SA Rage 1/day; AL CN; SV Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +2; Str 26, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 2. Feats: Weapon Focus (Morningstar) Special Attacks: Rage 1/day SA: Improved Grab; Earth Strike(+CON(+5) to attack, 1/day) Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft; giant traits, Fast Movement +20, Scent, DR 8/adamantine; Minotaur Cunning; Track; Fast Healing 2 Possessions: MWK Hizagkuur Morningstar, Mithril Shirt, +1 Buckler, +1 cloak of resistance. Pretty dumb an ogly, but fast and powerful, and near undentable at that level, but meat for spells...and the hit points of a fourth level wizard is gonna hurt him..good thing he has DR...
Khazra 05-21-04, 12:25 PM	I like dwarf (or mule if you have the right dragon magazine) mineral warrior/half-celestial (the +2la BOED version)/barbarian1. If you can get access to a +1 weapon in your campaign take a furious dwarven waraxe (furious make you count as 1 rage stage up, so +6 str & con). Take any natural 18s as con & your looking at round 69 rage con @ level 4! A lot of sorceres, wizards & even rogues wont get that high over 15 levels! the average human barbarian (as per the DMG) wont be that high until around level 8. Strength should be your secondry stat followed by wisdom. As soon as possible go exotic weapon master & take uncanny blow for the 2X str bonus when using your war-axe 2-handed.
fergsta2 05-21-04, 04:55 PM	a mule? what is that from? and where can I find the furious quality? Thanks
TaisharMalkier 05-21-04, 06:00 PM	Zug Zug. By Mule I think he means Mul, from Dark Sun. "I don't have the dragonlance setting, will have to have a look, would that be useable in the FRCS?" No. It's not even usable in dragonlance. The templates he said are prolly the top 4 templates in the game for power - I personally wouldn't allow any of them in my game. Cheers
fergsta2 05-22-04, 02:54 PM	Had to make some changes to the weapons as I read the errata...no longer could afford it! Here are the finished builds, have not done the skills, not time, but most would be put in to move silently and hide: Grunnek Bloodeye: male Orc/Half-Red Dragon BBN1; HD 1d12+4; hp 16; ECL 4; Init +2; Spd 40 ft; AC 22 (+4 mithril shirt, +4 natural, +2 Dex, +2 Buckler); BAB/Grapple: +1/+8; Full Atks +10 melee(+9 two-handed) (1d8+7 +1 electricity(one-handed); 1d8+10 +1 electricity(two-handed)/crit 19-20x2, MWK Morningstar); SA Rage 1/day; Breath Weapon AL CN; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +2; Str 24, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10. Feats: Weapon Focus (Morningstar). Special Attacks: Rage 1/day. Gain two Claw & one Bite attacks. SA: Breath weapon(SU); 30ft cone 6d8 fire, DC 14 half. Gore Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft; low-light vision; Immune to fire, sleep, paralysis; orc traits; Fast Movement +10. Possessions: MWK Darksteel Morningstar, Mithril Shirt, +1 Buckler, +1 cloak of resistance. ________________________________________ __________________________ Grunnek Bloodeye: male Feral Orc/Half-Minotaur/Half-Ogre/Mineral Warrior BBN1; HD 1d12+5; hp 17; ECL 4; Init +1; Spd 50ft/Burrow 50ft; Space/Reach 10/10; AC 29 (+4 mithril shirt, +13 natural, +1 Dex, +2 Buckler, -1 Size); BAB/Grapple: +1/+9; Full Atks +10 melee(+9 two-handed) (2d6+8 +1 electricity(one-handed); 2d6+12 +1 electricity(two-handed)/crit 19-20x2, MWK Large Morningstar); SA Rage 1/day; Earth Strike AL CN; SV Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +2; Str 26, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 2. Feats: Weapon Focus (morningstar). Special Attacks: Rage 1/day. 2 Claw & 1 Gore attack. SA: Improved Grab; Earth Strike(+CON(+5) to attack, 1/day). Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft; giant traits; Fast Movement +20; Scent; DR 8/adamantine; Minotaur Cunning(+4 in mazes, and knowledge of true north); Orc Traits; Track; Fast Healing 2. Possessions: MWK Darksteel Large Morningstar, Mithril Shirt, +1 Buckler, +1 cloak of resistance.
Khazra 05-22-04, 04:22 PM	Can i ask what your personal preference is for stats. Are you like me & prefer Con over Str or are you like everyone else who prefers strength?
Ramses III 05-22-04, 04:38 PM	With your LA keeping you at 1 HD, i would suggest going with the second build as the AC is so much higher. When you are made of glass you need protection. And that Burrow speed is sweet -- think of the possibilities for an ambush!:D No. It's not even usable in dragonlance. The templates he said are prolly the top 4 templates in the game for power - I personally wouldn't allow any of them in my game. Well this IS the Min/Max board. It would be pretty disappointing if people here were leaving things out of builds because they were too powerful.
TaisharMalkier 05-22-04, 05:34 PM	Zug Zug. I know it's the min/max boards - I was just explaining why it looked so incredibly good. That being said, if anyone actually takes white dragonspawn, they are being super munchkiny in that: it's campaign specific, you must be TURNED into one (by the single white dragon overlord), and it's obviously overpowed. BTW, I think if you have Mineral Warrior you lose any fly speed *shrug*. Cheers
fergsta2 05-22-04, 05:44 PM	Well for this character i am trying to maximize STR with CON a close second, since he only has one hit die, he needs all the heath he can get! And he has to get in and do damage fast before he is stunned or worse. I usually like to have more intelligent PCs though, but this was a little exercise in doing something different than normal, was told to prepare a PC for a 4th campaign, and my current PC is a very diplomatic, clever sorcerer, so this time I thought I would look at a melee tank. Well first I wanted to use a Bugbear, but the LA+ is too much to get a class in anything at 4th level, so I went with the Orc. I figure that the other PCs can pump him up and send him in to wreak havoc. The first build is the one I will probably use, just because i have already written a backstory for it(well, will have to switch out the bugbear with the orc), the other, I don't think I could explain, he is pretty uber, if the DM follows all the rules and the enemies have the appropriate stats and value of arms, then they would have to roll over 18 to touch him and none could afford adamantite weapons, so -8 to all their attacks, even if they get over the AC...then there is the fast healing 2...reach and heavy damage...ouch...the DM would have to bend the rules to give him a beat down. CON for the first one is most important due to the breath weapon DC relies on it(not to mention FORT and HP). I have tried several base creatures, but I think the Orc somehow always comes out on top from a min/max view. really wanted a half red dragon - Bugbear BBN/ROG though...man that was a good looking build, but at 3HD/LVL 2 LA+3, it was at ECL 8 - too high If anyone has any other starting LVL 4 builds I would be interesting in seeing them. Well, save perhaps the feral anthropomorphic/half ogre baleen whale...not my bag baby!
fergsta2 05-22-04, 05:50 PM	Yeah, I have not seen the white dragonspawn template, sounds cool, but I was looking at more inherited templates, and yeah I do think you loose the fly speed for mineral warrior. good looking build though. What about equipment, what is the best you can get for 5400gp? I think mine is pretty close, but I could have missed something. I suppose I could have spent it all on one thing, but I am trying to make it as powerful in all aspects(as a melee character of course, cause they are some unattractive individuals).
fergsta2 05-22-04, 05:55 PM	Originally posted by Khazra I like dwarf (or mule if you have the right dragon magazine) mineral warrior/half-celestial (the +2la BOED version)/barbarian1. If you can get access to a +1 weapon in your campaign take a furious dwarven waraxe (furious make you count as 1 rage stage up, so +6 str & con). Take any natural 18s as con & your looking at round 69 rage con @ level 4! A lot of sorceres, wizards & even rogues wont get that high over 15 levels! the average human barbarian (as per the DMG) wont be that high until around level 8. Strength should be your secondry stat followed by wisdom. As soon as possible go exotic weapon master & take uncanny blow for the 2X str bonus when using your war-axe 2-handed. I see no half celestial in the BoVD...where is furious from? Thanks </EDIT> OOOOHHHHH...sorry, BOED.... don't have that yet...curses! never mind...still would like that furious quality tho...is that from there too? Actually probably could not afford it with the allotted 5400gp