Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcade 01-26-07, 05:37 PM	Can't make up my mind here, and I can use help. I'm joining an on-going campaign at 5th level. It's mainly a dungeon crawl going for many levels afterward. The rules are Core only with 32 point build. Starting wealth is 3000 gold, so I assume wealth levels in the campaign are low. The current party consists of: arcane caster fighter/cleric fighter/rogue tank fighter druid rogue (TWF build) I have considered: bard- one character should have Charisma and the large party should benefit from Inspire Courage. Despite reading the CO handbook on bards, I don't feel like I can make them combat effective. monk- not sure how effective they are over the course of the entire campaign. And should I go with 1/2 orc tripper or elven skirmisher? cleric- because you can't go wrong with a cleric, but seems like we have a strong focus there already. There could be a big fight if we find a periapt of wisdom. paladin- decent Charisma character, but ends up being a 2nd rate fighter? In a dungeon crawl, using the warhorse is hard unless I take a small size character. ranged fighter or ranger- because it looks llike most of these guys are front line fighters. So I could use some advice here and build options, and if you have any other ideas for a good character to use in this party, I am open to suggestions! Thanks, Arcade
Vanadium 01-26-07, 05:53 PM	The current party consists of: arcane caster fighter/cleric fighter/rogue tank fighter druid rogue (TWF build) I have considered: bard- one character should have Charisma and the large party should benefit from Inspire Courage. Despite reading the CO handbook on bards, I don't feel like I can make them combat effective. monk- not sure how effective they are over the course of the entire campaign. And should I go with 1/2 orc tripper or elven skirmisher? cleric- because you can't go wrong with a cleric, but seems like we have a strong focus there already. There could be a big fight if we find a periapt of wisdom. paladin- decent Charisma character, but ends up being a 2nd rate fighter? In a dungeon crawl, using the warhorse is hard unless I take a small size character. ranged fighter or ranger- because it looks llike most of these guys are front line fighters. So I could use some advice here and build options, and if you have any other ideas for a good character to use in this party, I am open to suggestions! Thanks, Arcade You could play a bardic archer. Take some general archery feats like Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot and you more or less are an archer. You'll also act as a party face which may not be the greatest in a dungeon crawl, but you never know. You could invest heavily in Use Magic Device, but this also might be limited by the nature of a dungeon crawl and an equally limiting restraint on wealth. However, I think the best thing going for bard is the number of frontliners you have (one even with TWF). Start every combat with Inspire Courage and you could probably contribute a great deal of damage over the course of the battle. The thing about bards isn't so much in you being the star of the party, but you are adding to everbody in the party. A smart bard can go a long way. I suggest bard also because, looking at your party and depending on what that wizard does with his spells, you have a balanced team already. Bards seem to be better when they can function in the capacity of support. Just get used to people not thinking too highly of you. It really is a curse of the bard. You have enough people there making the enemies bleed as is. Might as well make them better at it. There are many more options, but like I said, there seems to be a little of everything in that party as is. Might as well go with something fun (which I hear bards tend to be, even if they are tactically boring in combat).
BalthazarDArgent 01-26-07, 05:56 PM	You won't need all the fancy weapons and armor with a self buffing War Cleric. Just tell your party members to keep their grubby hands off your spells as heals. Buff, buff, buff and whip arse.
jameswilliamogle 01-26-07, 06:00 PM	Bard. Buffs rock tha house, and you have a bunch of melee types that can take advantage. Its very hard to build a melee-centric Bard in core, though, and advance all the abilities. I'd get funky w/ it: Combat Experties, Imp Disarm, and Weapon Finesse. Your main duty (heh, I said duty) is to disarm the fighters when they fail a Will save, and ready actions to disarm enemy casters of material components and others, all with your whip. You simply switch to your Short Sword or go ranged if you aren't facing humanoids. This entails high Dex. You want to pick up Spell Focus: either illusion or enchantment, as all your spells are lower level and have lower DC's. This entails higher Cha, if you want to charm the heck out of your opponents. Skill-wise, do whatever feels right. Sleight of Hand + Invisibility is just hilarious, but you have a lot of options. Make sure to max out Perform; remember, you can use your bardic buffs and fight simultaneously (you don't need to actively use the perform skill to do it). Halfling Bard 5 Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15 1 Combat Expertise 3 Weapon Finesse Combat Buffs: Cat's Grace, Alter Self (Troglodyte), Inspire Courage That'll give you +11 to hit, +1 to damage, and +6 Natural Armor, on top of other bonuses. At +11 to hit, if you are facing humanoids that you'll be using disarm on (which probably won't provoke w/ the whip being so long), go ahead and hit full Combat Expertise, then you'll be at +8 to hit, and a net +9 AC, fully stacks w/ your Chain Shirt and AC, for a total AC of 27, up to 29 if you put on a Heavy Shield after buffing (which you should). Which is tanking at 5th level.
Crusher Nate 01-26-07, 06:10 PM	A Bard with EWP: Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes would be cool. Use your turn to sing and cast spells, and do most of your damage with AoOs. Grease is a real winner of a spell with this character; cast it just on the other side of your front line so your buddies aren't affected, and move into position so you can AoO enemies who blew the save as they're standing back up.
rilem 01-26-07, 06:15 PM	I'll second Bard Archer. The halfing whip guy is fun and flavorful, but you'll be depressed if your DM throws lots of natural-weapon monsters at you. But you can shoot at almost anybody.
Arcade 01-26-07, 08:53 PM	Thanks for all the responses so far, everyone. OK, the bard is getting good support here. And I think an archer build might be necessary as well. So here's a shot at it. Please critique and improve. Elven Bard 5 Str: 10 Con: 12 Dex: 18 Int: 12 Wis: 8 Cha: 16 --> 17 (4th level increase) Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot In the future, take rapid shot, many shot, spell focus, leadership, and improved initiative. Masterwork long bow, rapier, chain shirt, masterwork lute, scrolls Skills: Diplomacy (5 ranks), sense motive (5 ranks), bluff (5 ranks), speak language(5 more), use magic device(8 ranks), perform (sing)(8 ranks), decipher script (5 ranks), spellcraft (5 ranks), knowledge history (5 ranks), knowledge (nobility and royalty) (5 ranks) These are done to get lots of synergy bonuses. Afterwards, I'll focus on perform, diplomacy, languages, bluff and use magic device. I'll branch out into a secondary perform as well and get a masterwork instrument to help out. Could take a human for the extra feat and make my dex suffer. More skills and hit points, but I also need to use a short bow.
cthascott 01-26-07, 10:24 PM	Chaotic Nuetral Cleric of a death deity. Spontaneous Inflict spells. Using this coupled with Weapon Focus(Touch Spells) and Spell Focus(Necromancy) turns you into a death machine through different means. Domains of Undeath and Necromancer(not core but domains nontheless) give you Extra Turning and casting Necromancy spells at a +1 caster level. Great for extra Necromancy spells that Clerics don't get and great for creating undead from the bodies of the enemies that your allies kill thus getting other bad guys to use up some of their actions in combat on your undead. What better way to buff your party then to have them hardly ever get hit in the first place? Plus Cleric's get access to an awesome spell list, you'd still be able to use wands of cure spells and Clerics have Diplomacy and benefit from having good Charisma scores. But I also think that a Bard is necessary in a group of that many if the Rogue isn't much into being the "face" of the party. Great for roleplaying a smartass. Plus Bardic Knowledge is good for tidbits of info into monsters abilities and vulnerabilities that you can shout to your allies and you're technically, the "back-up" healer as you can use cure wands. Hope I helped. Peace. CthaS
rilem 01-26-07, 10:42 PM	Could take a human for the extra feat and make my dex suffer. More skills and hit points, but I also need to use a short bow. This is an option, but also Bard4/Fighter1 -- better BAB and feats, still get 2nd level spells.
jameswilliamogle 01-26-07, 11:18 PM	Even if you go Bard, I still think you should take Weapon Finesse, just in case you end up in melee, so you'll have options. Realize that we're suggesting Bard b/c of you party composition, more than anything else. You have a ton of melee in the group, benefiting from Inspire Competance, you have a Cleric, that isn't fully dedicated to healing, and the other party roles look covered. Bottom line: play what seems fun to you.