5th party member [Archive] - Wizards Community

5th party member [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khazra Reborn
01-19-06, 02:57 PM Whats the general consensus on what makes the best 5th party member?
The accepted 4 person party is:
blaster-caster (traditionally arcanist, but bearing psionics in mind i thought i better change it)=wizard, sorcerer, psion
healer=cleric, possibly druid, favoured soul or other divine caster
Tank=fighter, barbarian, maybe cleric or druid
trapfinder=rogue

My question is what is the most helpful 5th party member? I originally thought a bard because they have limited healing, arcane spells & music to buff everyone thus adding to the whole party whilst being a character in their own right.
But are the newkids on the block any competition, lets look at the options:
Artificer
Creates items for the whole party at a knockdown price. Infusions can add o almost any parties effectiveness, with the most abuseable being making weapons having the bane enhancement. Has trapfinding incase rogue is otherwise disposed. The most obvious problem is getting stuck in a niche and displacing other characters as the party tank, trapfinder or blaster-caster. A strength is playable 1-20.
Warlock
Quite good item creation though not comparing to the artificer. eldricht blast makes you the archer of the party but you can fly from the beginning of your career and you ignore DR making you a better option then a traditional archer. Evocatons also give a certain amount of battlefield management. strength is playable 1-20 and around the easiest, lease pressuring character you could play. Great for a new player.
Marshal
Buffing the whole party is a very nice ability when you consider you dont have to do anything & its constant. Also a relaince on cha and skill focus diplomancy make for a great party face/leader. 3/4 BaB, D8 HD and martial weapon/heavy armour prof. make you a decent secondry combatatant (especially with motivate tactics). The weakness of the marshal is complete lack of feats & prcs specific to them. I personally like to multiclass with paladin for cha synergy or with barbarian (over the top and snowtiger beserker=fun)

Lastly, you must consdier what was designed as a 5th party member...
The chameleon
The chameleon will never excel beyond other characters at everything but its comitent. It even goes well with the previously mentioned marshal & to a lesser extent artificer. I usually favour a divine/combat chameleon so he can help fight,buff ad even heal if need be. Though its designed to handle every job the party has i personally favour selecting 2 and sticking to them (though 3 is a possibility) because otherwise they spread themselves too thin (much like the artificer can).

What do people think is the best optimistaion for a 5 man party? Should you ignore the 5th member and get another tank or divine caster or arcanist? Maybe even a gish? How much does it depend on your resources and how much does it depend on the party you play with?

My personal experience
The best 5th character ive ever played was a bard20 with words of creation and song of the heart. I was in a party with a druid tank/healer (divine), a barbarian/FB (tank), a rogue/fighter TWFer(trapfinder) and an EK (blastercaster) so it's probaly a reflection on the party (bein heavily focused towards combat) rather then the bard.
BattlemageLv57
01-19-06, 03:42 PM My favorite class to have join for a 5th person would have to be a Wu jen They gain a spell secret every three levels that give them a chance to increase the potency of a spell which is perminent Plus they have some spells from the wizard spell list and their own uniqe spells, they have the gardian spirit class ability that allows them to reroll initiative I hope this is what you were looking for.
allenchan
01-19-06, 03:53 PM Well, in a 5 member party Im in, we have a Warmage and a War Weaver. The synergy is simply amazing between the two arcanists, and definately would rival any other combinations of buffer/blaster (excluding blastificiers and all their craziness).
But then again we had a druid as our melee fighter. :D
Prominence
01-19-06, 03:54 PM blaster-caster (traditionally arcanist, but bearing psionics in mind i thought i better change it)=wizard, sorcerer, psion
healer=cleric, possibly druid, favoured soul or other divine caster
Tank=fighter, barbarian, maybe cleric or druid
trapfinder=rogue

I'd disagree, and replace blaster caster with utility-caster (damage spells are terrible).
I'd replace tank with just Fighter-type. Paladin, barbarian, fighter, anything with good hit dice and wears armor. Not necessarily 'tank.'
Trapfinder can be a lot of things. I'd go with Scout or rogue. Maybe have this person also try to be the tracker. In general though, you're looking at 'skill monkey' not trapfinder.

Anyway, the best 5th person does something the other four doesn't. None of the above are particularly great at ranged damage, so that makes a good fourth. That means Ranger, Warlock, Artificer, Bard, Cleric Archer are all good. A druid never hurts, as it applies some melee-support and casting support, as well as back up healing.

There were some threads a while ago about the optimized party, and all it needed.
Xabre
01-19-06, 04:22 PM My GM has a few habits on what he runs:

he will ALWAYS have traps, and therefore a 'skill monkey' must exist with trapfinding.

He loves Undead, which means a cleric has very high needs. Not to mention you usually always need a healer.

A spellcaster is not AS needed. If so, you should try to find a utility caster, as mentioned. A blaster such as Warlock or Warmage makes a good 5th. A sorcerer with Draconic Breath is decent, because he can take more varied spells than a sorcerer might otherwise, becaue he can always trade out slots for damage.

Lastly, a fighter type is usually needed, but again, not always. Offensive casters, such as War Clerics and Druids can fill this role, provided the party makes a strong synergy.

My party is actually only going to be THREE people... we're using a rogue, a war cleric, and a draconic sorcerer.
rilem
01-19-06, 04:48 PM Here's one of those party-optimization threads. Link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-225158.html) There were others.

I'd echo Prominence's point, and add this:

In addition to doing something that none of the other party members do, the 5th player should be able to perform one of the other member's tasks — just not as well.

A backup undead-turner or trapfinder can be very helpful. A backup healer is almost mandatory.

To the list, I'll toss in Archivist. Full-party buffing with knowledge checks and the ability to cast a very wide selection of spells — probably the widest range in the game, on a par with the artificer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khazra Reborn 01-19-06, 02:57 PM	Whats the general consensus on what makes the best 5th party member? The accepted 4 person party is: blaster-caster (traditionally arcanist, but bearing psionics in mind i thought i better change it)=wizard, sorcerer, psion healer=cleric, possibly druid, favoured soul or other divine caster Tank=fighter, barbarian, maybe cleric or druid trapfinder=rogue My question is what is the most helpful 5th party member? I originally thought a bard because they have limited healing, arcane spells & music to buff everyone thus adding to the whole party whilst being a character in their own right. But are the newkids on the block any competition, lets look at the options: Artificer Creates items for the whole party at a knockdown price. Infusions can add o almost any parties effectiveness, with the most abuseable being making weapons having the bane enhancement. Has trapfinding incase rogue is otherwise disposed. The most obvious problem is getting stuck in a niche and displacing other characters as the party tank, trapfinder or blaster-caster. A strength is playable 1-20. Warlock Quite good item creation though not comparing to the artificer. eldricht blast makes you the archer of the party but you can fly from the beginning of your career and you ignore DR making you a better option then a traditional archer. Evocatons also give a certain amount of battlefield management. strength is playable 1-20 and around the easiest, lease pressuring character you could play. Great for a new player. Marshal Buffing the whole party is a very nice ability when you consider you dont have to do anything & its constant. Also a relaince on cha and skill focus diplomancy make for a great party face/leader. 3/4 BaB, D8 HD and martial weapon/heavy armour prof. make you a decent secondry combatatant (especially with motivate tactics). The weakness of the marshal is complete lack of feats & prcs specific to them. I personally like to multiclass with paladin for cha synergy or with barbarian (over the top and snowtiger beserker=fun) Lastly, you must consdier what was designed as a 5th party member... The chameleon The chameleon will never excel beyond other characters at everything but its comitent. It even goes well with the previously mentioned marshal & to a lesser extent artificer. I usually favour a divine/combat chameleon so he can help fight,buff ad even heal if need be. Though its designed to handle every job the party has i personally favour selecting 2 and sticking to them (though 3 is a possibility) because otherwise they spread themselves too thin (much like the artificer can). What do people think is the best optimistaion for a 5 man party? Should you ignore the 5th member and get another tank or divine caster or arcanist? Maybe even a gish? How much does it depend on your resources and how much does it depend on the party you play with? My personal experience The best 5th character ive ever played was a bard20 with words of creation and song of the heart. I was in a party with a druid tank/healer (divine), a barbarian/FB (tank), a rogue/fighter TWFer(trapfinder) and an EK (blastercaster) so it's probaly a reflection on the party (bein heavily focused towards combat) rather then the bard.
BattlemageLv57 01-19-06, 03:42 PM	My favorite class to have join for a 5th person would have to be a Wu jen They gain a spell secret every three levels that give them a chance to increase the potency of a spell which is perminent Plus they have some spells from the wizard spell list and their own uniqe spells, they have the gardian spirit class ability that allows them to reroll initiative I hope this is what you were looking for.
allenchan 01-19-06, 03:53 PM	Well, in a 5 member party Im in, we have a Warmage and a War Weaver. The synergy is simply amazing between the two arcanists, and definately would rival any other combinations of buffer/blaster (excluding blastificiers and all their craziness). But then again we had a druid as our melee fighter. :D
Prominence 01-19-06, 03:54 PM	blaster-caster (traditionally arcanist, but bearing psionics in mind i thought i better change it)=wizard, sorcerer, psion healer=cleric, possibly druid, favoured soul or other divine caster Tank=fighter, barbarian, maybe cleric or druid trapfinder=rogue I'd disagree, and replace blaster caster with utility-caster (damage spells are terrible). I'd replace tank with just Fighter-type. Paladin, barbarian, fighter, anything with good hit dice and wears armor. Not necessarily 'tank.' Trapfinder can be a lot of things. I'd go with Scout or rogue. Maybe have this person also try to be the tracker. In general though, you're looking at 'skill monkey' not trapfinder. Anyway, the best 5th person does something the other four doesn't. None of the above are particularly great at ranged damage, so that makes a good fourth. That means Ranger, Warlock, Artificer, Bard, Cleric Archer are all good. A druid never hurts, as it applies some melee-support and casting support, as well as back up healing. There were some threads a while ago about the optimized party, and all it needed.
Xabre 01-19-06, 04:22 PM	My GM has a few habits on what he runs: he will ALWAYS have traps, and therefore a 'skill monkey' must exist with trapfinding. He loves Undead, which means a cleric has very high needs. Not to mention you usually always need a healer. A spellcaster is not AS needed. If so, you should try to find a utility caster, as mentioned. A blaster such as Warlock or Warmage makes a good 5th. A sorcerer with Draconic Breath is decent, because he can take more varied spells than a sorcerer might otherwise, becaue he can always trade out slots for damage. Lastly, a fighter type is usually needed, but again, not always. Offensive casters, such as War Clerics and Druids can fill this role, provided the party makes a strong synergy. My party is actually only going to be THREE people... we're using a rogue, a war cleric, and a draconic sorcerer.
rilem 01-19-06, 04:48 PM	Here's one of those party-optimization threads. Link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-225158.html) There were others. I'd echo Prominence's point, and add this: In addition to doing something that none of the other party members do, the 5th player should be able to perform one of the other member's tasks — just not as well. A backup undead-turner or trapfinder can be very helpful. A backup healer is almost mandatory. To the list, I'll toss in Archivist. Full-party buffing with knowledge checks and the ability to cast a very wide selection of spells — probably the widest range in the game, on a par with the artificer.