6th lvl mayhem [Archive] - Wizards Community

6th lvl mayhem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khirildith
07-31-06, 08:20 AM Hello, new forum member here...

I'm directing a question to the hard-core gamers of the Optimization board:

I'm about to delve into a little incrowd Gladiator fighting in my local club, here its all about kicking the asses of the other players, its fun and gory... only problem is, because of to much use of Invisibility and fly those spells have been ruled out. As i am mostly a wizard, i find myself at a disadvantage, and thus turn this way for help with a nasty close combat specializt (perhaps one with limited spells as well)..

So anyone have any ideas for a 6th lvl build? here are the rules:

· 15.000xp experience enough for lvl 6
· 13.000 gold
· 32 point Point-buy.
· Max hp per level.

All classes from the Player’s Handbook 1 & 2, Complete adventurer, fighter, arcane og divine, and all races from Monster Manuals 1 & 2 (remember level adjustment and hitdice)

”The Do-Not’s”
· Do not bring/buy/get help from the outside, so no henchemen, bodygaurds, guarddogs or other creeps. Druids, Rangers etc. are allowed their animal companion.
· All fly, Invis, maze, teleport etc. Spells are banned, these spells can't appear on the gladiators spelllist or in his inventory list (or anywhere else for that matter!)
· All gladiators needs to be approved when they have been made and each time they lvl.
· Don't be a coward, the audience has come for Blood, Violence and death... not nanny's knittingclub.

“The Do’s”
· Ask if you have questions.
· Be prepared, read your abilities, think creatively and fight to the end.
· Be honest, don't try to cheat and be a decent sportsman. (Gladiator is a gentlemans sport after all :D)

That's about it... help appriciated!
Ithandor
07-31-06, 09:24 AM Ok, this uses a FR deity, not sure if you're allowed but any deity with the Planning Domain would suffice (you guessed it, DM (persistent) again)

Human Cleric(6) of the Red Knight

Str:18 (15+1 from lv4 +2 from Gauntlets)
Dex:10
Con:14
Int:8
Wis:16
Cha:16 (+2 from Cloak)

Feats: Extend Spell, Weapon Proficiency (longsword), Weapon Focus (longsword), Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent), Extra Turning x2

Total turn attempts: 14/day

Persisted spells: Channeled Divine Shield, (something else; Divine Favour and Protection from X are good choices)

Equipment: +1 Longsword, Light Steel Shield (with Magic Vestment applied), +1 Full Plate, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Cloak of Charisma +2

Assuming Divine Favour is used:

Attack:+12 Dmg: d8+6 Threat 19-20/x2

AC:21, DR 10/evil :D

You could save some money if you have time to cast Eagle's Splendour to get the necessary Charisma boost.

Probably not the most optimised, but solid, with good survivability and the versatility of spells.

Just a thought, critique/tear apart at will ;)

Ithandor
Suin Bahhar
07-31-06, 09:28 AM OK here is my proposed charcater. Take a race with a good con-modifier, gnome for example. Take the endurance feat, maxed tumble, and combat expertise and keep fighting defensively against all opponents you face. Keep on doing that untill the opposition is tired and fatigued. When they are fatigued start lowering your defenses but wait with any serious attacks untill they are exhausted. Then come in and strike for the kill while looking all fresh good =)

Rogue combat expertise (if you give him a flaw give him combat reflexes too)
Rogue
Fighter endurance shield specialisation
Rogue +1 con
Rogue
Fighter shield ward, active shield defence

str 10
dex 14
con 17 +1
int 13
wis 12
cha 10

Give this little guy an expensive small shield +2, boots of striding and springing, a sonic shocking burst gnome pick of wounding. Cloak of displacement and some con boosting items and your set.
While figting defensively you have -4 to attack and +2 ac, your small +1AC, you have tumble 5 +1AC, with full expertise you have +5AC.
Ok so give him a masterwork full plate of nimbleness +8 ac.
Thats ac 25 when standing, flatfooted 23 touch 17
when in defense this is 34 and 26 touch both with concealment 50%.
Very frustating at level 6 to hit these ac's. Especially after 20 rounds and being exhausted hehe...
Necromas
07-31-06, 11:19 AM Druid 5/Beastmater 1 gets a companion of a level 9 druid, 4 BAB, 4d8+1d10 hp, Wildshape, 5/3/6 saves, and spellcasting.

For a companion, I suggest picking from the 7th level or higher alternate companions list (getting bonus hd and stuff counted as a 3rd level druid), good choices are Rhino (powerful charge), Brown Bear (raw damage, improved grab), Tiger (pounce, rake, improved grab), and Dire Ape (rend).

Your companion will have pretty low AC, but you can always cast a couple buffs or healing spells on it, and your companion getting killed is a lot preferable to you getting killed anyways.
Khirildith
07-31-06, 06:32 PM Nice... that are some interesting char's to consider... I like the fact that two chose "Divine" magic casters... perhaps i will look more at that... Thank you for the contribution so far, any more ideas will be welcome!
Khirildith
08-01-06, 06:08 PM I started looking at the possibilities of maybe a Duskblade? Are they worth a try?
IbanezNinja
08-01-06, 07:06 PM Personally, I love duskblades, but if you wanna go with a little more style, try a grapple wizard. This is reposted from The Gaming Den's forums, I didn't make it but it's so awesome I feel the need to repost it.

Level 1: You are a human and have a single level of Wizard, and you get to select your feats and specialize and all that. You put your highest rolled stat in Intelligence because you aren't a moron, and your second highest goes into Strength. Rar! You take an Octopus as your familiar (Stormwreck), and you select Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved grapple as your feats. You specialize in Transmutation, and take Evocation and Enchantment as barred schools.

Combat: You grapple people! Having Improved Grapple means that you can initiate a grab without provoking an AoO. Assuming that you have a Strength of 14, you'll have a Grapple bonus of +9 at 1st level, which means that you expect to win. You're also going to cast babau slime on yourself, which means that you'll do 1d8 points of acid damage every round you stay in a grapple, which in turn is enough to make you totally lethal. You can take down enemies above your level no problem.

2nd level: Holy shiznit! You got a BAB bonus! Sweet. You now have Grapple onus of +10. But then you can have a spell left over for enlarge person that can jack your grapple bonus up to +16

3rd level: Now things go crazy. You learn fearsome grapple and bladeweave. You get a feat, and it's Aberration Blood. Your Grapple Bonus goes up to +12 and then you cast fearsome grapple, enlarge person, and bladeweave - driving your Grapple bonus up to +22 (comparison: this is better than a Giant Octopus at +15). Further, your victim has to make a Will save every round or be dazed - which means that they can't even attempt to break out. This is where you pin your opponent and the Rogue uses a coup de grace.

4th level: You get a BAB hot diggity! You now have +23 Grapple when it's important (the equal of a Dire Bear, for those keeping track). You also learn some new spells I suggest Balor Nimbus and web

5th level: You get a bonus Metamagic Feat. I suggest either Sudden Extend, or Extend Spell. You also get 3rd level spells. You're probably going to get haste as well as something good like stinking cloud.

6th level: You get a Feat, which will probably be Sudden Maximize. Also you get a +1 to BAB so your grapple bonus just shot past that of a Dire Bear. Also you get some more spells which are Shivering Touch (so once per day you can hand out 18 points of Dex damage as a touch attack in case you come across a Dragon or Purple Worm that can actually beat you in a grapple), and then either shrink item (for all around utility), or girallon's blessing (for ripping peoples' faces right off).

7th level: You may take a prestige class. Or not. I don't even care, because you just got polymorph and the cheese stands alone. Apply all your grapple stuff as a Remorrhaz, or whatever. I don't even care at this point.
Khirildith
08-02-06, 07:44 AM WTF?!?

That build is just crazy...

fearsome grapple and bladeweave - Where is that from?

Aberration Blood - that too?
Alienfreak
08-02-06, 08:01 AM I bet Aberration Blood is from LoM :)

Okay okay ... edit:

Fearsome grapple is in the Spell Compendium

Bladeweave is also in the Spell Compendium BUT it states that you have to hit your enemy with an melee weapon to make the effect work, but winning a grapple check is considered unarmed damage and not a hit with an melee weapon! So this wont work. You would have to grapple him and the attack him while inside the grapple.

And he left out the Balor Nimbus spell. This one deals 6d6 fire damage without save if you are in an grapple.
Alienfreak
08-02-06, 08:25 AM Also his math is wrong. Ill make a quick recalculation:

Grapple bonus:
BAB
+ 2 strength bonus
+ 3 nameless bonus (octupus familiar)
+ 4 nameless bonus (improved grapple)
+ 4 size bonus (enlarge person) & +1 additional strength bonus
+ 2 nameless bonus (aberration blood)

So your bonus is: BAB+16

With fearsome grapple you get a +4 circumstance bonus

So raising it to BAB+20

So in lvl 2 you dont have +16 but +15.

Also note: an pinned opponent is NOT helpless, so you cant coupe de grace him.

And no sane DM would ever allow an shivering touch in his campaign ;). But you also cant cast it while in a grapple because it has an somatic component and you cant cast spells with a somatic component while in a grapple.

After all:
This idea is pretty old and it is nice, but he has done some failures in his calculations and does 2 thing which are illegal (shivering touch while in grapple and bladeweave for grapples and not mentioning the not working coupe de grace).

This build has also a major drawback:
1. You have to reach the character
2. You still have little hps and while you grapple enemy nr 1 the rogue will sneak attack the hell out of you, dropping you in a maximum of 2 rounds (you dont have an dex modifier while grappling)
3. Close Quarters Fighting will give the enemy an AoO no matter what and he gets the damage as a bonus on his grapple check. Can really ruin your day.
4. Relies on quite a few buffs, so you cant start rightout.
5. Good old one trick pony. And we all know that true optimizers hate one trick ponies ;)
Khirildith
08-02-06, 08:30 AM But his idea had some merits at least

And i believe other gladiators will be looking at grappling...

How about something with shapechanging/metamorphosis or something, spliced with the warshaper thingy?

(oh and how do you do that <show> thing in your signature?)
Alienfreak
08-02-06, 08:35 AM Its a spoiler tag

[.spoiler]text here[./spoiler]

Just leave out the "." in the []

If you want to name it then [.spoiler=name]text here[./spoiler]
Alienfreak
08-02-06, 08:41 AM Oh i have just taken a quick look ... and you CAN coup de grace pinned enemies if you arent the one who is pinning ... sorry, my failure :)
Xeraph
08-02-06, 08:43 AM Hmm... I use [ sblock][ /sblock] or [ sblock="Heste"][ /sblock]

Psychic Warrior could be quite the adversary. Healing powers, damage reduction and so forth. Later on, a Psychic Warrior/Slayer could be very effective.
Khirildith
08-02-06, 08:47 AM Yeah, but psychics are banned from the very existence of earth where i come from... (i can't say i miss them)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khirildith 07-31-06, 08:20 AM	Hello, new forum member here... I'm directing a question to the hard-core gamers of the Optimization board: I'm about to delve into a little incrowd Gladiator fighting in my local club, here its all about kicking the asses of the other players, its fun and gory... only problem is, because of to much use of Invisibility and fly those spells have been ruled out. As i am mostly a wizard, i find myself at a disadvantage, and thus turn this way for help with a nasty close combat specializt (perhaps one with limited spells as well).. So anyone have any ideas for a 6th lvl build? here are the rules: · 15.000xp experience enough for lvl 6 · 13.000 gold · 32 point Point-buy. · Max hp per level. All classes from the Player’s Handbook 1 & 2, Complete adventurer, fighter, arcane og divine, and all races from Monster Manuals 1 & 2 (remember level adjustment and hitdice) ”The Do-Not’s” · Do not bring/buy/get help from the outside, so no henchemen, bodygaurds, guarddogs or other creeps. Druids, Rangers etc. are allowed their animal companion. · All fly, Invis, maze, teleport etc. Spells are banned, these spells can't appear on the gladiators spelllist or in his inventory list (or anywhere else for that matter!) · All gladiators needs to be approved when they have been made and each time they lvl. · Don't be a coward, the audience has come for Blood, Violence and death... not nanny's knittingclub. “The Do’s” · Ask if you have questions. · Be prepared, read your abilities, think creatively and fight to the end. · Be honest, don't try to cheat and be a decent sportsman. (Gladiator is a gentlemans sport after all :D) That's about it... help appriciated!
Ithandor 07-31-06, 09:24 AM	Ok, this uses a FR deity, not sure if you're allowed but any deity with the Planning Domain would suffice (you guessed it, DM (persistent) again) Human Cleric(6) of the Red Knight Str:18 (15+1 from lv4 +2 from Gauntlets) Dex:10 Con:14 Int:8 Wis:16 Cha:16 (+2 from Cloak) Feats: Extend Spell, Weapon Proficiency (longsword), Weapon Focus (longsword), Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent), Extra Turning x2 Total turn attempts: 14/day Persisted spells: Channeled Divine Shield, (something else; Divine Favour and Protection from X are good choices) Equipment: +1 Longsword, Light Steel Shield (with Magic Vestment applied), +1 Full Plate, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Cloak of Charisma +2 Assuming Divine Favour is used: Attack:+12 Dmg: d8+6 Threat 19-20/x2 AC:21, DR 10/evil :D You could save some money if you have time to cast Eagle's Splendour to get the necessary Charisma boost. Probably not the most optimised, but solid, with good survivability and the versatility of spells. Just a thought, critique/tear apart at will ;) Ithandor
Suin Bahhar 07-31-06, 09:28 AM	OK here is my proposed charcater. Take a race with a good con-modifier, gnome for example. Take the endurance feat, maxed tumble, and combat expertise and keep fighting defensively against all opponents you face. Keep on doing that untill the opposition is tired and fatigued. When they are fatigued start lowering your defenses but wait with any serious attacks untill they are exhausted. Then come in and strike for the kill while looking all fresh good =) Rogue combat expertise (if you give him a flaw give him combat reflexes too) Rogue Fighter endurance shield specialisation Rogue +1 con Rogue Fighter shield ward, active shield defence str 10 dex 14 con 17 +1 int 13 wis 12 cha 10 Give this little guy an expensive small shield +2, boots of striding and springing, a sonic shocking burst gnome pick of wounding. Cloak of displacement and some con boosting items and your set. While figting defensively you have -4 to attack and +2 ac, your small +1AC, you have tumble 5 +1AC, with full expertise you have +5AC. Ok so give him a masterwork full plate of nimbleness +8 ac. Thats ac 25 when standing, flatfooted 23 touch 17 when in defense this is 34 and 26 touch both with concealment 50%. Very frustating at level 6 to hit these ac's. Especially after 20 rounds and being exhausted hehe...
Necromas 07-31-06, 11:19 AM	Druid 5/Beastmater 1 gets a companion of a level 9 druid, 4 BAB, 4d8+1d10 hp, Wildshape, 5/3/6 saves, and spellcasting. For a companion, I suggest picking from the 7th level or higher alternate companions list (getting bonus hd and stuff counted as a 3rd level druid), good choices are Rhino (powerful charge), Brown Bear (raw damage, improved grab), Tiger (pounce, rake, improved grab), and Dire Ape (rend). Your companion will have pretty low AC, but you can always cast a couple buffs or healing spells on it, and your companion getting killed is a lot preferable to you getting killed anyways.
Khirildith 07-31-06, 06:32 PM	Nice... that are some interesting char's to consider... I like the fact that two chose "Divine" magic casters... perhaps i will look more at that... Thank you for the contribution so far, any more ideas will be welcome!
Khirildith 08-01-06, 06:08 PM	I started looking at the possibilities of maybe a Duskblade? Are they worth a try?
IbanezNinja 08-01-06, 07:06 PM	Personally, I love duskblades, but if you wanna go with a little more style, try a grapple wizard. This is reposted from The Gaming Den's forums, I didn't make it but it's so awesome I feel the need to repost it. Level 1: You are a human and have a single level of Wizard, and you get to select your feats and specialize and all that. You put your highest rolled stat in Intelligence because you aren't a moron, and your second highest goes into Strength. Rar! You take an Octopus as your familiar (Stormwreck), and you select Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved grapple as your feats. You specialize in Transmutation, and take Evocation and Enchantment as barred schools. Combat: You grapple people! Having Improved Grapple means that you can initiate a grab without provoking an AoO. Assuming that you have a Strength of 14, you'll have a Grapple bonus of +9 at 1st level, which means that you expect to win. You're also going to cast babau slime on yourself, which means that you'll do 1d8 points of acid damage every round you stay in a grapple, which in turn is enough to make you totally lethal. You can take down enemies above your level no problem. 2nd level: Holy shiznit! You got a BAB bonus! Sweet. You now have Grapple onus of +10. But then you can have a spell left over for enlarge person that can jack your grapple bonus up to +16 3rd level: Now things go crazy. You learn fearsome grapple and bladeweave. You get a feat, and it's Aberration Blood. Your Grapple Bonus goes up to +12 and then you cast fearsome grapple, enlarge person, and bladeweave - driving your Grapple bonus up to +22 (comparison: this is better than a Giant Octopus at +15). Further, your victim has to make a Will save every round or be dazed - which means that they can't even attempt to break out. This is where you pin your opponent and the Rogue uses a coup de grace. 4th level: You get a BAB hot diggity! You now have +23 Grapple when it's important (the equal of a Dire Bear, for those keeping track). You also learn some new spells I suggest Balor Nimbus and web 5th level: You get a bonus Metamagic Feat. I suggest either Sudden Extend, or Extend Spell. You also get 3rd level spells. You're probably going to get haste as well as something good like stinking cloud. 6th level: You get a Feat, which will probably be Sudden Maximize. Also you get a +1 to BAB so your grapple bonus just shot past that of a Dire Bear. Also you get some more spells which are Shivering Touch (so once per day you can hand out 18 points of Dex damage as a touch attack in case you come across a Dragon or Purple Worm that can actually beat you in a grapple), and then either shrink item (for all around utility), or girallon's blessing (for ripping peoples' faces right off). 7th level: You may take a prestige class. Or not. I don't even care, because you just got polymorph and the cheese stands alone. Apply all your grapple stuff as a Remorrhaz, or whatever. I don't even care at this point.
Khirildith 08-02-06, 07:44 AM	WTF?!? That build is just crazy... fearsome grapple and bladeweave - Where is that from? Aberration Blood - that too?
Alienfreak 08-02-06, 08:01 AM	I bet Aberration Blood is from LoM :) Okay okay ... edit: Fearsome grapple is in the Spell Compendium Bladeweave is also in the Spell Compendium BUT it states that you have to hit your enemy with an melee weapon to make the effect work, but winning a grapple check is considered unarmed damage and not a hit with an melee weapon! So this wont work. You would have to grapple him and the attack him while inside the grapple. And he left out the Balor Nimbus spell. This one deals 6d6 fire damage without save if you are in an grapple.
Alienfreak 08-02-06, 08:25 AM	Also his math is wrong. Ill make a quick recalculation: Grapple bonus: BAB + 2 strength bonus + 3 nameless bonus (octupus familiar) + 4 nameless bonus (improved grapple) + 4 size bonus (enlarge person) & +1 additional strength bonus + 2 nameless bonus (aberration blood) So your bonus is: BAB+16 With fearsome grapple you get a +4 circumstance bonus So raising it to BAB+20 So in lvl 2 you dont have +16 but +15. Also note: an pinned opponent is NOT helpless, so you cant coupe de grace him. And no sane DM would ever allow an shivering touch in his campaign ;). But you also cant cast it while in a grapple because it has an somatic component and you cant cast spells with a somatic component while in a grapple. After all: This idea is pretty old and it is nice, but he has done some failures in his calculations and does 2 thing which are illegal (shivering touch while in grapple and bladeweave for grapples and not mentioning the not working coupe de grace). This build has also a major drawback: 1. You have to reach the character 2. You still have little hps and while you grapple enemy nr 1 the rogue will sneak attack the hell out of you, dropping you in a maximum of 2 rounds (you dont have an dex modifier while grappling) 3. Close Quarters Fighting will give the enemy an AoO no matter what and he gets the damage as a bonus on his grapple check. Can really ruin your day. 4. Relies on quite a few buffs, so you cant start rightout. 5. Good old one trick pony. And we all know that true optimizers hate one trick ponies ;)
Khirildith 08-02-06, 08:30 AM	But his idea had some merits at least And i believe other gladiators will be looking at grappling... How about something with shapechanging/metamorphosis or something, spliced with the warshaper thingy? (oh and how do you do that <show> thing in your signature?)
Alienfreak 08-02-06, 08:35 AM	Its a spoiler tag [.spoiler]text here[./spoiler] Just leave out the "." in the [] If you want to name it then [.spoiler=name]text here[./spoiler]
Alienfreak 08-02-06, 08:41 AM	Oh i have just taken a quick look ... and you CAN coup de grace pinned enemies if you arent the one who is pinning ... sorry, my failure :)
Xeraph 08-02-06, 08:43 AM	Hmm... I use [ sblock][ /sblock] or [ sblock="Heste"][ /sblock] Psychic Warrior could be quite the adversary. Healing powers, damage reduction and so forth. Later on, a Psychic Warrior/Slayer could be very effective.
Khirildith 08-02-06, 08:47 AM	Yeah, but psychics are banned from the very existence of earth where i come from... (i can't say i miss them)