8th level army [Archive] - Wizards Community

8th level army [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tiluvias99
10-07-05, 06:02 PM I can only use the SRD, and I can't use psionics.

For a campaign I'm in, I'll be advancing to 8th level. I'm a pixie, and I have the leadership feat as a bonus feat granted by the DM, so I figure this is a good way to optimize it. for this, ECL counts as character level, and as long as I can justify the various leadership modifiers with character history/roleplaying, I can have them (for this, consider that I can). My followers can also have PC classes.

I start out with a 4th level pixie (ECL 8), with a cloak of charisma +4. with an 18 for base charisma, I have a charisma of 28 (a +9 mod). With Great Renown, Fairness/Generosity, and Special Powers, that puts my leadership score at 21.

My cohort would be a 3rd level nixie (ECL 6), with a cloak of charisma +2. With an 18 for base charisma, I have a charisma of 28 (a +9 mod). With Great Renown, a Stronghold, Fairness/Generosity, and Special Powers, that also puts my leadership score at 21. 6th level characters have 5,600 gp, so he can afford his own cloak of charisma +2.

both characters now have followers that are 6th level. these followers would be the exact same as my original cohort, and would thus have 6th level followers of their own. This puts me at a near infinite number of followers, at only 8th level.

Is this feasible?

Also, how would you suggest I organize my followers? I am only allowed one sorceror or wizard per group (1 for my followers, 1 for my cohorts followers, 1 for my follower's followers, etc.), and also I may only have 1 cleric or druid per group, and 1 paladin, 1 ranger, and 1 bard per group. I was thinking something like this:

at leadership score 21, my characters would each have:
-1 6th level character: 3rd level nixie ???
-1 5th level character: 5th level wizard
-2 4th level characters: 4th level bard, ???
-3 3rd level characters: 3rd level cleric, ???, ???
-6 2nd level characters: ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???
-60 1st level characters: 30 1st level mounted human fighter cavalry chargers (mounted combat, ride-by-attack, spirited charge), and 30 1st level human archers (point blank shot, precise shot, and either far shot or rapid shot)

what do you think?
Lilt
10-08-05, 08:11 AM I'm assuming that you mean "ECL counts as character level" as that you can take leadership if you are ECL6 and can have a cohort of up to your ECL-2. Yes?
I'd consider a feat from Heroes of battle called Improved Cohort. That means your cohort can be of your level -1 rather than -2. There is also a feat in the same book that *doubles* the number of followers you have. Both of those feats also add 1 to your leadership score.

I'd ask you exactly what your classes are too. If you can snag extra feats from somewhere then those two feats would be well worthwhile, but otherwise it's one or the other. LOL. If you were to go a human with +5 worth of LA then you could grab them both with your 1st level feats. As it stands you coudl grab them both by picking-up another point of LA (maybe consider a level of a savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp)) then snagging them as your 1st and 3rd level feats (as you have leadership at 1st level.

If your 6th level followers are Phrenic Half-fey Humans (With another +1LA tacked on for good measure) then they qualify for leadership and extra followers at 1st level. Now with this method your 6th level followers will probably be less effective but the branching factor would be much higher giving you more direct control as your numbers expand.

[edit]Oops on the non-SRD and psionic sources, still, I think that'll demonstrate to your DM why he shouldn't mess around with ECL and CL.
gbnogkfs
10-08-05, 09:58 PM the only problem is that followers aren't limited to master level -2 (or -1)... a problem that only arises in the case of 6th level characters with huge charisma bonuses...

on my behalf, I would not grant as a DM a follower of a level higher than your maximum for cohort (but that's just me...)
tiluvias99
10-09-05, 03:51 PM I'm assuming that you mean "ECL counts as character level" as that you can take leadership if you are ECL6 and can have a cohort of up to your ECL-2. Yes?yup.

going for +5 LA... that's a good idea. just gotta find all the good charisma boosting templates in the SRD... anyone know of any good ones?'d consider a feat from Heroes of battle called Improved Cohort. That means your cohort can be of your level -1 rather than -2. There is also a feat in the same book that *doubles* the number of followers you have. Both of those feats also add 1 to your leadership score. :eek: I need to get me that book. That's insane.
Balthanon
10-09-05, 04:29 PM This is one of the reasons that most DMs won't allow a cohort to have the leadership feat itself. :) Have you run that past your DM yet to get it approved?

Also, this depends on how your DM is handling things, but technically, the player doesn't even get to build the cohort-- the only thing the player has a say in is the race, class, and alignment of the cohort.
tiluvias99
10-09-05, 09:39 PM yes, but for this "exercise" I have those freedoms.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how this could be improved, or which classes/roles I should have the other followers be? Or any good ideas for high charisma templates?
tiluvias99
10-10-05, 10:44 PM bump, still looking for ideas/suggestions
Balthanon
10-11-05, 11:47 AM If your DM is actually allowing you infinite followers, then get one of everything-- without limits, there isn't much here to optimize. If you find a build you like on the boards, take it. You might as well stick with the fey for the charisma since they get the requisite 6th level follower to propagate the chain and they at least fit in with the theme.

Beyond that, just wish that you had thought this up a couple weeks ago for UnCon--this would have been a pretty stylish submission for "Break This Houserule!". :P
Knightwolfe
10-11-05, 01:36 PM Well, it's not even a unique idea, unfortunately. I've seen many a time where someone tried to do this only to have an intelligent DM tell them that cohorts can't take Leadership. Which is what any intelligent DM would do. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tiluvias99 10-07-05, 06:02 PM	I can only use the SRD, and I can't use psionics. For a campaign I'm in, I'll be advancing to 8th level. I'm a pixie, and I have the leadership feat as a bonus feat granted by the DM, so I figure this is a good way to optimize it. for this, ECL counts as character level, and as long as I can justify the various leadership modifiers with character history/roleplaying, I can have them (for this, consider that I can). My followers can also have PC classes. I start out with a 4th level pixie (ECL 8), with a cloak of charisma +4. with an 18 for base charisma, I have a charisma of 28 (a +9 mod). With Great Renown, Fairness/Generosity, and Special Powers, that puts my leadership score at 21. My cohort would be a 3rd level nixie (ECL 6), with a cloak of charisma +2. With an 18 for base charisma, I have a charisma of 28 (a +9 mod). With Great Renown, a Stronghold, Fairness/Generosity, and Special Powers, that also puts my leadership score at 21. 6th level characters have 5,600 gp, so he can afford his own cloak of charisma +2. both characters now have followers that are 6th level. these followers would be the exact same as my original cohort, and would thus have 6th level followers of their own. This puts me at a near infinite number of followers, at only 8th level. Is this feasible? Also, how would you suggest I organize my followers? I am only allowed one sorceror or wizard per group (1 for my followers, 1 for my cohorts followers, 1 for my follower's followers, etc.), and also I may only have 1 cleric or druid per group, and 1 paladin, 1 ranger, and 1 bard per group. I was thinking something like this: at leadership score 21, my characters would each have: -1 6th level character: 3rd level nixie ??? -1 5th level character: 5th level wizard -2 4th level characters: 4th level bard, ??? -3 3rd level characters: 3rd level cleric, ???, ??? -6 2nd level characters: ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ??? -60 1st level characters: 30 1st level mounted human fighter cavalry chargers (mounted combat, ride-by-attack, spirited charge), and 30 1st level human archers (point blank shot, precise shot, and either far shot or rapid shot) what do you think?
Lilt 10-08-05, 08:11 AM	I'm assuming that you mean "ECL counts as character level" as that you can take leadership if you are ECL6 and can have a cohort of up to your ECL-2. Yes? I'd consider a feat from Heroes of battle called Improved Cohort. That means your cohort can be of your level -1 rather than -2. There is also a feat in the same book that doubles the number of followers you have. Both of those feats also add 1 to your leadership score. I'd ask you exactly what your classes are too. If you can snag extra feats from somewhere then those two feats would be well worthwhile, but otherwise it's one or the other. LOL. If you were to go a human with +5 worth of LA then you could grab them both with your 1st level feats. As it stands you coudl grab them both by picking-up another point of LA (maybe consider a level of a savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp)) then snagging them as your 1st and 3rd level feats (as you have leadership at 1st level. If your 6th level followers are Phrenic Half-fey Humans (With another +1LA tacked on for good measure) then they qualify for leadership and extra followers at 1st level. Now with this method your 6th level followers will probably be less effective but the branching factor would be much higher giving you more direct control as your numbers expand. [edit]Oops on the non-SRD and psionic sources, still, I think that'll demonstrate to your DM why he shouldn't mess around with ECL and CL.
gbnogkfs 10-08-05, 09:58 PM	the only problem is that followers aren't limited to master level -2 (or -1)... a problem that only arises in the case of 6th level characters with huge charisma bonuses... on my behalf, I would not grant as a DM a follower of a level higher than your maximum for cohort (but that's just me...)
tiluvias99 10-09-05, 03:51 PM	I'm assuming that you mean "ECL counts as character level" as that you can take leadership if you are ECL6 and can have a cohort of up to your ECL-2. Yes?yup. going for +5 LA... that's a good idea. just gotta find all the good charisma boosting templates in the SRD... anyone know of any good ones?'d consider a feat from Heroes of battle called Improved Cohort. That means your cohort can be of your level -1 rather than -2. There is also a feat in the same book that doubles the number of followers you have. Both of those feats also add 1 to your leadership score. :eek: I need to get me that book. That's insane.
Balthanon 10-09-05, 04:29 PM	This is one of the reasons that most DMs won't allow a cohort to have the leadership feat itself. :) Have you run that past your DM yet to get it approved? Also, this depends on how your DM is handling things, but technically, the player doesn't even get to build the cohort-- the only thing the player has a say in is the race, class, and alignment of the cohort.
tiluvias99 10-09-05, 09:39 PM	yes, but for this "exercise" I have those freedoms. Does anyone have any suggestions on how this could be improved, or which classes/roles I should have the other followers be? Or any good ideas for high charisma templates?
tiluvias99 10-10-05, 10:44 PM	bump, still looking for ideas/suggestions
Balthanon 10-11-05, 11:47 AM	If your DM is actually allowing you infinite followers, then get one of everything-- without limits, there isn't much here to optimize. If you find a build you like on the boards, take it. You might as well stick with the fey for the charisma since they get the requisite 6th level follower to propagate the chain and they at least fit in with the theme. Beyond that, just wish that you had thought this up a couple weeks ago for UnCon--this would have been a pretty stylish submission for "Break This Houserule!". :P
Knightwolfe 10-11-05, 01:36 PM	Well, it's not even a unique idea, unfortunately. I've seen many a time where someone tried to do this only to have an intelligent DM tell them that cohorts can't take Leadership. Which is what any intelligent DM would do. ;)