Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todd 03-20-06, 09:39 AM	I'll be playing in a one-shot this Friday. We are making 8th level characters. 32 point stat buy & *any* books are open to use. Scenario is a "jail-break" where we will be on the outside having to break in and rescue someone on the inside. Party is still way up in the air but I'm pretty sure that we are going to have an Arcane Trickster type and a Bard (possibly with a level or two of Rogue). I suspect that we will have a ranger as well but I’m not so sure about him. Personally I was thinking about playing a human Chameleon. My goal is to have 3 levels of Chameleon and BAB 6 ... other than this I am wide open to ideas. I’ve been looking at a number of possible combinations for 5 entry levels but can’t decide on one. I started out thinking that Barbarian 1 / Warlock 4 might be fun ... and I could probably talk the DM into letting Practiced Spellcaster work for the Eldritch Blast ... but I’m not so sure that this would be my best bet. Rogue 3 / Ranger 2 would be promising but I’m a bit worried about stepping on the toes of some of the other players. Marshal 3 / Barbarian 2 might do the trick with the City Slicker feat but my gut tells me that there has got to be something else good out there. I’ve looked at Any suggestions for entry class levels and feats? I’ve already looked at Mommy was an Ork’s Chameleon Compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082). Plenty of good stuff there but it’s only added to my indecision. ;) Oh, and unless someone brings in a cleric or something, my guy will likely be taking Divine focus much of the mission. Note builds & updates in post #10
Kuroi Kenshi 03-20-06, 02:09 PM	I think Rogue3/Fighter2 is the best overall entry for combat. Rogue3/Ranger2 might be better if you want to build towards light armor and TWF. You could try Rogue3/Paladin2/ and take the serenity feat, which lets you apply WIS instead of CHA to your saves from divine grace. That'd synergize with going divine focus. Could also take Zen Archery for more WIS-synergy if you wanted to dump dex to 13 and walk around in mithral full plate.
Lilt 03-20-06, 02:31 PM	Perhaps consider an incarnum-using base? They tend to be powerful and the switchable feat gives you a lot of versatility from day to day. An Azurin Swashbuckler 3/Totemist 2/Chameleon 3 (Needs City Slicker) would be interesting. Also works with Incarnate if you're OK with the allignment restrictions. In either case, you may want a hat of disguise to hide soulmelds if you're wanting to blend undetected.
Todd 03-20-06, 02:55 PM	Kuroi Kenshi I'm going to be avoiding LG this game. DM explicitly suggested that we not be that alignment. Lilt, ironic that you should mention Incarnum. Since I’m playing an Incarnate in another ongoing game I was going to avoid that here but that very Swashbuckler 3 / Totemist 2 combo had occurred to me as well. I personally was thinking of mostly using melds for defense and utility but I’m aware that the totemist natural weapons are finessable. One downside of this build in the long term is that both the Chameleon class stuff and the Totemist melds are Competence bonuses. Other ideas that I’m pondering Totemist 2 / Hexblade 3 – funky flavor Ninja 2 / Swashbuckler 3 – better with arcane focus though. Monk 2 / Hexblade 3 – the save master I’m still thinking human but if I went changeling the following had occurred to me: Paladin of Freedom 4 / Warshaper 1 / Chameleon 3 I just have NO idea how to roleplay that though...
xanadu 03-20-06, 06:50 PM	Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 is a great base for Chameleon, the only problem is that your will save sucks. If you can live with that, then I'd go that way. The big problem with Chameleon is the disguise requirement requires you to take a 3/4 BAB class which might not be the 3/4 BAB class you'd rather have.
Todd 03-20-06, 09:04 PM	The big problem with Chameleon is the disguise requirement requires you to take a 3/4 BAB class which might not be the 3/4 BAB class you'd rather have. Not really. The City Slicker feat allows Disguise as a class skill. Pair that with a full BAB class that has Bluff (Hexblade, Swashbuckler, LE Soulborn, Paladin of Freedom, Thug Fighter Variant, etc.) and you are good to go with full BAB prior to taking Chameleon though your skills will obviously lack somewhat vs Rogue or Bard. In my case here full BAB is not such a big deal. Since this is a one shot at 8th level BAB 6+ will do just fine. I can afford to loose one additional point of BAB in addition to the 1 lost from Chameleon. Just to recap I have a Rogue / Wizard character, a Rogue / Bard, and a Rogue / Ranger in the party so far. :rolleyes: Anyway Rogue is out as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to avoid Bard & Ranger in the build too. For no really good reason I've decided to not use Cleric (trickery) either. Some of these choices may be sub-optimal but I'm still convinced that a solid build can be made. Hexblade, Marshal, Barbarian, Warlock, Fighter, Swashbuckler, Soulborn, and Totemist are the classes I'm looking at the most right now for the prefix. I'll be posting one or two builds as soon as I get them put together to my satisfaction.
xanadu 03-20-06, 10:30 PM	I hear you about city slicker but I hate wasting feats...I'd rather have a feat than +1 BAB. Cha is generally a dump stat because the chameleon is MAD. That being said, it's perfectly possible to pimp CHA to the roof and get things like divine grace, snowflake wardance, etc., but you are casting off another stat. Totemist 2 is a great dip for anything. Blink shirt is that good. +2 AC for free for the purple worm meld? Yes thanks. 4 skills? Yes. 2 good saves, please keep it coming. I'm guessing with your party make up, you are the tank. Fighter 2 if you need feats, barbarian 2 if you don't. I like the psion (telepath) option for disguise if you aren't going rogue. Access to psionic feats, +2 will save (+2 more if you go empty mind), and a feat. Sure d4 hurts but you get a lot and you are only losing 2 HPs from a d8. I'd probably use the chameleon feat for improved toughness or vitality belt soulmeld if you are worried about your HPs. Actually since you aren't using your essentia, I'd go vitality belt.
Lilt 03-21-06, 07:34 AM	Lilt, ironic that you should mention Incarnum. Since I’m playing an Incarnate in another ongoing game I was going to avoid that here but that very Swashbuckler 3 / Totemist 2 combo had occurred to me as well. I personally was thinking of mostly using melds for defense and utility but I’m aware that the totemist natural weapons are finessable. One downside of this build in the long term is that both the Chameleon class stuff and the Totemist melds are Competence bonuses.Hmm? I thought many of them were Insight bonuses, or am I thinking of the incarnate melds? Still, understood if you don't want to overlap the characters you're playing too much. Have you considered things from the tome of magic? I don't have it yet but it all sounds interesting. If you're always going Divine focus then consider going for wisdom synergy. Monk 2/Swashbuckler 3 has probably been suggested elsewhere. Remember that you can't always wear armor when disguised, "I'm a lowly peasant wearing a mithril breastplate for no reason", although the loss of abilities when you do have to wear armor for a disguise may sting.
Todd 03-21-06, 09:25 PM	Hmm? I thought many of them were Insight bonuses, or am I thinking of the incarnate melds? Still, understood if you don't want to overlap the characters you're playing too much. Have you considered things from the tome of magic? I don't have it yet but it all sounds interesting. Heh. The Incarnate & Soulborn melds are all Insight bonuses. The Totemst melds are all Competence ... except for the ones that they share with other classes. I looked back through the Tome of Magic ... and realized that the Binder has Bluff as a class skill. That might be fun! Fullbab 1 / Binder 4 / Chameleon 3. Hmm. Researching. I statted up a Changeling Swashbuckler 4 / Warshaper 2 / Chameleon 2 build today. That was interesting too. Actual builds soon. ;)
Todd 03-23-06, 01:45 PM	New campaign details. Wealth will be about 2/3 standard. Will be starting with 18000 GP instead of 27000. I’ve considered Vow of Poverty but I’m not sure that it makes sense. Let me know what you guys think. The Rogue / Ranger guy is making an archer build. No word on the others yet. That said here are some builds that I’ve been thinking about. Feel free to take them apart and put them back together meaner faster and better. ;) Build #1 Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14 (16 with item), Cha 10 1. Ninja 1 - Able Learner, Indigo Strike 2. Swashbuckler 1 - (Weapon Finesse) 3. Swashbuckler 2 - TWF 4. Swashbuckler 3 5. Ninja 2 6. Chameleon 1 - Midnight Dodge 7. Chameleon 2 8. Chameleon 3 BAB = 6 Skill Points = 87 This guy usually doesn’t wear armor unless a disguise calls for it. Typically he will use his floating feat on Improved TWF and sink his two points of essentia into Indigo Strike for extra Sudden Strike damage. However instead of this, if a situation warrants, he can use the feat for Shape Soulmeld and use the essentia for that. He has Int to damage, Wis to AC, and 3d6 Sudden Strike when he is using Indigo Strike. He can become Invisible for 1 round 3/day. I’m thinking that he will have a Wis boosting item but not sure about the rest. Build #2 Str 13, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14 (16 with item), Cha 10 1. Swashbuckler 1 - Able Learner, City Slicker, (Weapon Finesse) 2. Swashbuckler 2 3. Swashbuckler 3 - Exotic Weapon (Elven Courtblade) 4. Totemist 1 5. Totemist 2 6. Chameleon 1 - Bonus Essentia 7. Chameleon 2 8. Chameleon 3 BAB = 6 Skill Points = 77 This build can shape 3 Totemist soulmelds. He will usually bind Blink Shirt to Totem chakra so that he can Dimension Door as a move action. Worg Pelt will be shaped on his feet (bonus to move silently & hide). Wormtail Belt will give him a large natural armor bonus. The floating feat could be used for something like Expanded Essentia Capacity or Open Chakra if he wanted to boost something else (like binding his Worg Pelt to his feet would grant a ton of extra movement). I’m a bit worried about damage in this build. Any suggestions for improvement? Build #3 Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 10 1. Urban Ranger 1 - Able Learner, City Slicker 2. Binder 1 3. Binder 2 - Improved Binding 4. Binder 3 5. Urban Ranger 2 - (TWF) 6. Chameleon 1 - ? 7. Chameleon 2 8. Chameleon 3 BAB 6 Skill Points = 81 I’m honestly not entirely sure what to do with this build. I used the UA Urban Ranger variant for skills. Binder & City Slicker get me the class skills needed. The Binder is pretty cool in and of itself, but I’m having a really hard time seeing which single level 1-3 visage would help the most. Leraje would be nice for archery, but I don’t think that this will be needed. Naberious’ Disguise Self & skills would be handy. Dahlver-Nar’s boost to natural armor & his shield self ability look very tempting. Malphas’ Invisibily might be good in a jailbreak. Andromalius could be used for finding a key or similar. I’ve also got to admit that Paimon looks tempting with the dex bonus, but unfortunately this build can’t really take advantage of it. I keep wondering if a pure Binder might be better than this hybrid Binder / Chameleon thing. I’m also uncertain what to do with the 6th level feat here or the floating feat. Thoughts? Oh, just a point of comparison but the Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 entry would have 97 skill points.
Lilt 03-23-06, 02:45 PM	Is your DM following the rules variant for one-offs whereby expendable items cost more? If not then you can still get good bang for your buck from wands and similar. I don't think it's worth going VoP as a chameleon... It gives good bang for the buck but often it'll give the wrog bang if you're undercover or adopting a different focus.