Post/Author/DateTime	Post
necrosnoop110 08-04-04, 06:16 PM	3.5 any WotC What sort of items should an optimized 8th level battlefield controller/enchanter Sorcerer purchase? (Since I am starting at Sorcerer 8th level I’ll have 27,000 gp to spend) I’m open to all suggestions… Thanks, Necrosnoop
jensun 08-04-04, 06:45 PM	It very much depends on your build, in particular your spell selection and the make up of the rest of your party. If you have a crafter wizard everything changes dramatically. In general however its the same as for many others. You need to make sure you can stay alive so the ubiquitous +1 Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt and Mithril Buckler. Cloak or Vest of Resistance. +1 Amulet of Nat AR and Ring of Protection. Charisma boosting item, Hewards Handy Haversack and possibly a Ring of Sustenance are also all useful. After the basics you can look to load up on low level wands (level 0-1) of spells you dont know but may want with some regularity. If there are higher level spells you need to cover obtain some scrolls and replace them with wands later on when you have more cash.
amoeba 08-04-04, 06:59 PM	I don't think the +1 twilight mithral chain shirt is really worth it. it only gives ac+5 right? at 8th level, you can just magearmor for ac+4 for 8 ours. I would suggest some wands of spells that you don't have. specifically spells that are not caster level dependent. battlefield control casters also need high mobility. Consider boots of haste. Finally for defensive purposes, a ring of counterspells is very useful and cheap at 4000.
MoonWizard 08-04-04, 07:06 PM	I agree with the investment in wands. They're so cheap (Wand of Cure Light Wounds 750 GP), and give your character something to do during a round where you're not quite sure what to do. It doesn't exhaust any of your specifically picked spells, just a general can't-go-too-wrong spell. Wand of Clairvoyance with just like 15 charges is useful in dungeons so your know what's ahead. Again, it's cheap.
MetalGemini 08-04-04, 08:00 PM	Originally posted by amoeba I don't think the +1 twilight mithral chain shirt is really worth it. it only gives ac+5 right? at 8th level, you can just magearmor for ac+4 for 8 ours. But if you were a smart sorcerer and took Shield instead of mage armor, then it would be worth it because the bonuses from the twilight armor would stack with the +4 AC from Shield. Granted, it doesn't last as long, but works just as well. But the wands are a good idea. I forget how much they cost, but their are some items that increase Charisma (like Ioun stone and a headband). Maybe some scrolls with spells that you haven't learned would be good too.
ninjarabbit 08-04-04, 08:08 PM	A cloak of charsima obviously
cowdragon 08-05-04, 01:40 AM	Human with 2 flaws 1)Wizard(Enchanter); Tattoo Focus(Enchantment), Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, Still Spell 2)Sorcerer 3)Sorcerer; Spell Focus(Enchantment) 4)Sorcerer 5)Sorcerer 6)Sorcerer; Improved Initiative 7)Sorcerer 8)Red Wizard(add the caster level to the sorcerer...muhahaha) fun fun fun! The Cowdragon :mage:
carnivore 08-05-04, 06:07 PM	how about this : white dragonspawn/human human paragon 1.........(arcane prep/(choice--any,or nymph kiss) sorceror 1.....................( human paragon 2.........(enlarge spl/coop spl) human paragon 3.........(+2 Cha) sorceror 2....................( MoAO 1.........................(widen spl) MoAO 2.........................(extend spl) MoAO 3.........................( feats:i would prefer any of the following : 1st lvl must have arcane prep/next...nymph kiss or dreadful wrath or bloodline of fire or touch of golden ice or spellfire wielder. the rest of the feats are required for future PrC. if this is a short run the feats would be different. spell list: any 1-3rd lvl (arcane from sor/wiz list)through Spell pool 0-lvl acid splash detect magic read magic flare mage hand open/close prestidigitation 1st-lvl enlarge benign transposition true strike mm shield 2nd-lvl scorching ray rope trick hideous laughter 3rd-lvl slow vampiric touch 4th shadow conjuration items: clear spindle ioun stone............4000gp(no need to eat or drink) magic sleeping bag....................1000gp(+1hp healed for natural rest and endure elements) choker of eloquence,lesser.........1500gp(+5 diplomacy,bluff,innuendo,perform) bag of endless caltrops..............2300gp(lots of caltrops) handy haversack........................2000gp( .......!) wand of summon monster 3.....11250gp wand of grease............................750gp wand of mage armor....................750gp wand of disrupt undead...............375gp wand of detect poison..................375gp 2750 worth of mundane equipment and ALCHEMICAL items this character will survive with realitive comfort while contributing to the partys survival. i just wouldnt make him an enchanter ....my opinion. well....... hows that?
necrosnoop110 08-05-04, 06:12 PM	Thanks everyone good stuff ... Carnivore where is that "choker of eloquence,lesser.........1500gp" from?
carnivore 08-05-04, 06:13 PM	arms and equipment
amoeba 08-05-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by MetalGemini But if you were a smart sorcerer and took Shield instead of mage armor, then it would be worth it because the bonuses from the twilight armor would stack with the +4 AC from Shield. Granted, it doesn't last as long, but works just as well. But the wands are a good idea. I forget how much they cost, but their are some items that increase Charisma (like Ioun stone and a headband). Maybe some scrolls with spells that you haven't learned would be good too. just get a wand of magearmor. I really don't see the need for twilight armor.
amalcon 08-05-04, 06:33 PM	Originally posted by MetalGemini But if you were a smart sorcerer and took Shield instead of mage armor, then it would be worth it because the bonuses from the twilight armor would stack with the +4 AC from Shield. Granted, it doesn't last as long, but works just as well. But the wands are a good idea. I forget how much they cost, but their are some items that increase Charisma (like Ioun stone and a headband). Maybe some scrolls with spells that you haven't learned would be good too. +1 twilight mithril chain shirt and +2 mithril buckler have nearly the same price. +1 twilight mithril chain shirt gives +5 ac, +2 mithril buckler gives +3 So, if you buy the buckler and cast mage armor, you've got total +7 AC for 8 hours. If you buy the shirt and cast shield, you've got +9 for 8 minutes. Which one is better is up to you.
Aluroon 08-05-04, 07:06 PM	Good points from many people, however I just have a few things to point out... carnivore, you mentioned clear spindle ioun stone............4000gp(no need to eat or drink) Why not pick up a ring of sustance 2500gp(No need to eat or drink, sleep 2 hours a day)? As for the twighlt enchantment, why? Its expensive (whats it +1, +2,+3?) and all it does is reduce spell failer from 10% to what 5% or 0%... Omg, he's a sorcerer. He as more spells per day then he will Ever, Ever, Ever use. It doenst mater if 1 in ten spells doenst go off. And in my experiance, the chance is less then 1 in ten. A wizard in my group wears a regualr chain shirt, and he hasent failed to get off a spell yet! That said... The Mithral Bucker is a good idea. At high levels you can dose it in additinal enchantments as you see fit (Personally I aim to have one that has a number of energy resistances, and is animated before to long for my wizy) Other useful items incude... Amulet of Heath with the best ench you can get on it, the extra hit points will serve you well. Cloak of Cha +4: This item's cost is alittle steep, however in exchange for the higher dc on your spells, its worth it. Your not a wizard so you get to dodge the bullet on the Boccob's bless book, but insead you could pick up... A ring of mind sheilding (8000gp), a Ring of sustance (2500gp and a very good investment indeed), A wand if melfs acid arrow is wonderful if you can aford it (It doesnt allow SR), A hat if Disgise is wonderful as well for only 1800gp, as it allows you to look like a big bulky fighter in full plate, with a tower sheild (go ahead and shoot your arrows at someone else, because your not touching me). A brotch of sheilding is one more great item (cannot tell you how many times one has saved me from death at the hands of a maxamized MM). Other then that its really just what you want, although a Masterwork dagger is a required item for every character. Aluroon
amoeba 08-05-04, 07:12 PM	why does everybody recommend the ring of sustenence so much? Is it because my DM doesn't put me in to situations in which I lack food very often? oh, Also, a useful item is a ring of featherfall. Prevents you from being snatched up by big creatures and dropped, allows you to not die when you flow a balance or climb check, allows you to dimension door 400 feet in the air and cast spells while featherfalling down. allows you to survive at low levels when your alter self avariel gets dispelled.
carnivore 08-05-04, 09:00 PM	nice catch Aluroon i completely forgot about it . there are more things like that......Phylactery of change...11200gp it alows you to polymorph self with an unlimited duration(until you change it,the phylactery is removed or dispeled) i allowed for some items like the mithral buckler in the "2750 worth of mundane equipment and ALCHEMICAL items"allowance. now there is more to spend......wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!! at least it is a starting point..now to further optimize it.........your turn. as to why items that eliminate the need to eat and drink, the better the game(more complete IMO)the more the little day to day activities are included.thats why there are such a wide variety of skills to choose from. a real character in a fantasy setting would have to be well rounded to some degree to stay alive.
amalcon 08-05-04, 09:05 PM	Originally posted by amoeba why does everybody recommend the ring of sustenence so much? Is it because my DM doesn't put me in to situations in which I lack food very often? People like rings of sustenance for 2 reasons: 1. You don't have to carry the food (great on long trips) 2. Only 2 hours of sleep/night(practically impossible to ambush you)
incubus 08-05-04, 11:30 PM	I'd suggest not bothering with your ac. Really. It will never be high enough to matter against front-line monsters. You won't die in a single hit to anything else. You should never be in melee anyway, especially if you're all about battlefield control. I'd suggest you pick up the shape spell metamagic from tome and blood. Turning fireball (or evard's, or grease, or whatever) into 4 10' cubes is awesome.
jensun 08-06-04, 02:23 AM	I suggest that Twilight Mithril Shirt because it can be quickly and cheaply upgraded for extra AC. Its even better if you have a buffing cleric who will give you some Magic Vestment. You need something reliable at this level as you cannot yet rely on long duration polymorph effects. As for ignoring your AC, that frankly is not a good tactic. Whilst you may be able to avoid melee if you only fight on a flat open plain most of the time that isnt the case and the fight will come to you at some pont even if you dont go to it.
Andreas0815 08-06-04, 07:10 AM	I really like the Necklace of Adaptation. No more drowning, and you can use cloudkill to be save from melee monsters charging at you... Together with the ring of sustenance you can survive in almost any environment as long as you want (not including lavalakes).
amoeba 08-06-04, 10:29 AM	Originally posted by amalcon People like rings of sustenance for 2 reasons: 1. You don't have to carry the food (great on long trips) 2. Only 2 hours of sleep/night(practically impossible to ambush you) eh, I suppose, although you are the only one in the party that is sleeping 2 hours, everybody still needs their 8. Also, you still need to rest for spells. Besides, if the OP takes rope trick as suggested, I really don't see the ring of sustenance needed. as to spell selection. I liked the suggestion above except I would trade hideous laughter for glitterdust and vampiric touch for either lightening bolt, fireball, haste, or fly. I would also switch shadow conjuration for polymorph, black tentacles, or enervate.
carnivore 08-06-04, 11:16 AM	the spell selection was for a battle field controler. shadow conjuration........gives flexibility of all 3rd and under Conjurations(summoning,creation) that list includes a variety of useful spls including most battlefield control spls of those lvls(including Glitterdust). hideous laughter..was a toss up between alter self,mirror image,baleful transposition,or undeniable gravity. i picked hideous laughter because sometimes you need to run away without something chasing you or if you think the party can take it ,it makes attacking it much easier. vampiric touch.. if i must melee with something i will get hurt badly..so....VT gives me temp hp as well as hurting them badly,it is a touch att,so its good vs creatures with high natural armor. if you only have to sleep 2hrs per night you can be doing other useful things like maintaining you equipment as well as the rest of the parties equip. mainly its handy to have.
amoeba 08-06-04, 12:26 PM	Hmm, I guess I can see the shadow conjuration but I really don't know what you would conjure. low level monster summons aren't that useful and what creation spell is there at 3 and below? If you are shooting for battlefield control, black tentacles or solid fog does a much better job especially as most creatures at this point does not have freedom of movement. I don't think you ever want to be in melee range. The temp hp from vampiric touch will disappear in the next round as you get hit. As a battlefield control sorc, its much better to buff the entire party's mobility with haste and also coincidentally allow you to move out of range of most monsters with increased speed. You really need either alter self (assuming you are playing in a campaign where flying humanoid exists) or fly. the dynamic change that flight brings to the battlefield is priceless.
carnivore 08-06-04, 12:57 PM	conjuration (summoning)(creation) 3rd phantasmal steed sepia snake sigil sleet storm stinking cloud summon monster 3(..Celestial Bison anyone?) 2nd acid arrow fog cloud glitterdust summon monster 2 summon swarm web DECASTAVE 1st GREASE mage armor mount obscure mist summon monster 1 unseen servant all of these can be dupicated with shadow conjuration(very versatile) i believe with SM3 you can get a musteval (mouse like with MM at will or 3/day i dont remember which) if i use slow it is as if i haste entire party but even better as it limits the targets to 1 action per turn move or 1 attack not both. i do like fly but would probable have a potion for it,.....everyone would also have a potion for haste as well ,but it is very hard to get a monster to drink a potion of slow. just my opinion
Lakom 08-06-04, 01:07 PM	A question that could be potentially very noobish...but why wands? Aren't staffs far superior? You use your caster level to trigger them and once you begin stacking different spells on it costs far less then a wand (IIRC from the third spell onward you pay just 50% of what that spell would cost on a wand). There is probably something here I am not seeing.
carnivore 08-06-04, 01:27 PM	wands are cheaper as far as i know. i will look it up
carnivore 08-06-04, 08:06 PM	wow Lakom, excellent catch!!!!!!!!! just finished looking it up, hows this: make your own staff: 1st power -------------------------- dispel magic : 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x 375 = 9000 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 9000/1.66 = 5422 (round up) ------------------------ 2nd power ------------------------ summon monster 3: 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .75) = 6750 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 6750/1.66 = 4066 --------------------------- 3rd power --------------------------- fly: 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 4500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 4500/1.66 = 2711 (round up) --------------------------- 4th power --------------------------- mage armor: 1st lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 1500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 1500/1.66 = 904 (round up) --------------------------- 5th power --------------------------- magic missile: 1st lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 1500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 1500/1.66 = 904 (round up) --------------------------- total cost: 5422 4066 904 904 -------- 11340 make it a +1 staff =2600(2000 for +1 wpn,600 for masterwork double weapon) final cost 11340+2600=13940gp just say you had it custom made for you so the exp does not come from you just gold. so the equipment looks like this: +1 magic staff with 3 uses per day of : ....................dispel magic................... ................summon monster 3............ .........................fly............ .................. ....................mage armor................... ...................magic missile.................. ........................................ ....cost 13940gp ring of sustenance........................2500gp handy haversack...........................2000 gp choker of eloquence(lesser)..........1500gp bag of endless caltrops..................2300gp total................................... ..........22240gp leaving 4760 for other items you come up with!!!!!!! hows that now?
carnivore 08-06-04, 08:09 PM	wow Lakom, excellent catch!!!!!!!!! just finished looking it up, hows this: make your own staff: 1st power -------------------------- dispel magic : 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x 375 = 9000 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 9000/1.66 = 5422 (round up) ------------------------ 2nd power ------------------------ summon monster 3: 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .75) = 6750 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 6750/1.66 = 4066 --------------------------- 3rd power --------------------------- fly: 3rd lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 4500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 4500/1.66 = 2711 (round up) --------------------------- 4th power --------------------------- mage armor: 1st lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 1500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 1500/1.66 = 904 (round up) --------------------------- 5th power --------------------------- magic missile: 1st lvl spl x 8th lvl caster x (375 x .50) = 1500 useable 3 / day = (5/3) = 1.66 1500/1.66 = 904 (round up) --------------------------- total cost: 5422 4066 904 904 -------- 11340 make it a +1 staff =2600(2000 for +1 wpn,600 for masterwork double weapon) final cost 11340+2600=13940gp the great thing about the staff is .....it scales up with you as your caster level is used when you cast spls with it,also in the end result it will have much more than only 50 charges. just say you had it custom made for you so the exp does not come from you just gold. so the equipment looks like this: +1 magic staff with 3 uses per day of : ....................dispel magic................... ................summon monster 3............ .........................fly............ .................. ....................mage armor................... ...................magic missile.................. ........................................ ....cost 13940gp ring of sustenance........................2500gp handy haversack...........................2000 gp choker of eloquence(lesser)..........1500gp bag of endless caltrops..................2300gp total................................... ..........22240gp leaving 4760 for other items you come up with!!!!!!! hows that now?
Sisyfos 08-07-04, 03:51 AM	Charges... the staff has only 50 charges and after that its a goner. Putting multiple spells into them makes them last even less time. I hate multiple spell staves ;)
Andreas0815 08-07-04, 03:56 AM	Ah, but this is a wonderous item in staff-form. So you can have daily uses of the spell instead of burning charges...
jensun 08-07-04, 04:24 AM	What you have there is a staff shaped wondrous item. It is not a magical stave in the sense described in the DMG and therefore does not use your caster level.
Sisyfos 08-07-04, 05:13 AM	Originally posted by Andreas0815 Ah, but this is a wonderous item in staff-form. So you can have daily uses of the spell instead of burning charges... Actually it seems that they are mixing and matching the item creation guidelines of wondrous items and staves. Wondrous items with many spells do not have reduced costs, but increased costs per spell in the item. So actually the cost of the item would be something like: SUM OF: For the first spell: spelllevel*casterlevel*1800*(uses_per_da y/5) For subsequent spells: spelllevel*casterlevel*1800*(uses_per_da y/5)*2 It is around 26k for the first spell and 52k for the second and third spell plus some for the fourth and fifth (too lazy to count)... so we end up with something like 190k. Hmm... so it is also a +1 quarterstaff? Make that then 52k for the first spell also to a total of over 200k instead of 13k. Quite a difference.
Lakom 08-07-04, 06:52 AM	Is the 50 charge limit really a problem? Why not just by more staffs? if you have 5 wands with 50 lvl 3 spells that would cost you 5*3*5*750= 56.250 on the other hand if you have 5 staffs with 50 lvl 3 spells five staffs each 300gp (for the masterwork staff) each one: 1st spell 10 charges: 3*5*75 2nd spell 10 charges 3*5* 56 3rd 4th and fifth spell 10 charges each 3*(3*5*37) total spent 38.062...that's a lot of saved money
Borin 08-07-04, 08:24 AM	I would invest in your casting stat first, that gives extra spells that you can choose/cast every day without cost, and ups your DC. If your staff is out of charges, you just wasted lots of money.
carnivore 08-07-04, 03:24 PM	i was thinking much the same as you all were then , i looked at the rules and i changed my mind. first for magic item creation the first chart you see is called: summary of magic item creation cost the last column is entitled "base price", under this column you find how to determine the base price.different items send you to different places,"staffs" sends you to "creating staffs see below". there you find the following: "The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—375 gp x the level of the highest-level spell x the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster). Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created. If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells." but.......thats not all as there are other modifiers that must be applied to the item in question. go back to the table"estimating magic item gold piece value" the first section(effect) and second section(spell effect) do not apply as thier purpose is to determine gp value, which we already did when we went to the section on staff creation. the next 2 sections do apply as they are modifiers to the base gp value. since the staff section took into consideration that it has 50 charges we can ignore it what we want is "charges per day" we divide 5 by number of charges per day(3) and arrive at 1.66 we then divide the base cost by 1.66 giving us a subtotal,but it is not over yet as the staff does not take up any body slot so we must multply entire cost by 2. and there we have the item. when i went over it again i realized i left out a step(slotless item = 2xbase cost) so here is the corrected version. ((375)x3x8)/2.5"had to change all uses to 2 per day"=3600 ((375x.75)x3x8)/2.5"had to change all uses to 2 per day"=2698 ((375x.50)x3x8)/2.5"had to change all uses to 2 per day"=1805 ((375x.50)x1x8)/2.5"had to change all uses to 2 per day"=600 ((375x.50)x1x8)/2.5"had to change all uses to 2 per day"=600 for a grand total of 9303 but wait its slotless so x2 =18606gp still a bargain and 4666 more than before so i would get rid of the bag of endless caltrops and use the remaining money on mundain supplies. hows that?
Sisyfos 08-08-04, 08:27 AM	Wrong. I already explained that the item you are creating costs more than 200.000 gold, not less than 20.000. You are misinterpreting item creation rules. Create staff feat is used to create charged items. Items which cast spells/day are created with create wondrous item feat and are priced differently. Sisyfos
UMiskatonic 08-08-04, 10:55 AM	Scrolls! As a sorceror, you will not always have the spell you want. So, scrolls are a cheap and easy way to make up for this. I highly recommend you stock up on spells that you DONT know. As a battlefield controller, I would consider web, hold portal, arcane lock, silent image, evard's black tentacles, and wall of fire. Cheers, UMiskatonic
carnivore 08-09-04, 07:42 AM	Sisyfos maybe this will help try taking your approach and then making any of the staffs in the dmg and see if you come up with the same numbers that are in the dmg, if not try what i posted if it works use it. adding a change from 50 charges to 2 / day for each ability is not without precedent as there have been items in supplements that have this kind of thing(the staff of magius in the dragon lance campaign for one). it is not unbalancing or overpowered and fits nicely within the framework set out for magic item ceation. check it out, maybe im wrong but at least offer proof.
Sisyfos 08-09-04, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by carnivore Sisyfos maybe this will help try taking your approach and then making any of the staffs in the dmg and see if you come up with the same numbers that are in the dmg, if not try what i posted if it works use it. What you posted cannot be applied to DMG staves as they are created with different rules altogether. Staff creation rules are rules for charged items, not for spells/day rules. All the staves in DMG are created according to the rules posted in DMG. The stuff about 2 or 3 charges is used to reduce the item prices. A spell taking 2 charges is a spell which takes 2 out of those 50 charges. Meaning a fully loaded staff could be used to cast that spell maximum of 25 times if no other spell was ever cast from the staff. Not a single DMG staff has spells, which can be cast certain times/day. I think that the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Take one of the staves listed in DMG and construct it using your system (which is impossible because to my knowledge they are all charged items). Anyhow, I do not want to get into an endless debate about this. My point was that the rules do not support your item creation methods. If you still think that the method you suggested is not unbalancing you are free to use that method in your games. I am unaware of it whether dragonlance campaign setting has some alternative item creation rules. To my knowledge all spells/day items are created with the DMG guidelines provided in the table "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values". Namely in this, section: Spell Effect Base Price Single use, spell completion Spell level x caster level x 25 gp Single use, use-activated Spell level x caster level x 50 gp 50 charges, spell trigger Spell level x caster level x 750 gp Command word Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp Special Base Price Adjustment Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day) Uncustomary space limitation3 Multiply entire cost by 1.5 No space limitation4 Multiply entire cost by 2 Multiple different abilities Multiply higher item cost by 2 Charged (50 charges) 1/2 unlimited use base price Specifically feats: Create Wondrous Item and Create Rod commonly refer to this table for item value determination. Create Staff and Create Wand on the other do not refer to this as they have distinct and clear cut rules for the item pricing. According to your interpretation of these rules I could make would be to make 5 uses/day cure light wounds POTION. It would cost as much as a potion which could be used only once, but I could use it 5 times each day. Sisyfos