9 Masters [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

9 Masters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bonzai
01-05-07, 05:47 PM I am looking to introduce ToB into a Faerun campaign, as one of the players wants to play a Hobgoblin Warblade/Master of Nine. He'll be starting at level ecl 5. He also wants to be able to customize his weapon. Basicly a +1 Keen Bastard Sword that will eventually (if we go into epic levels), have all the discipline bonuses on it. I am cool with that, and have always given my players ways of customizing their gear (favors from wizards, etc..).

So, I thought I would have some fun with this. Starting at lvl 10, and every two levels after, the player will have a one on one duel with a "master" of each discipline. If the player wins, he will have his blade magicly imbued with the symbol of that master (granting the discipline bonus for that discipline).

Soo... I need to create a master for each of the 9 disciplines. This will be in the FR setting, and so any races, clssses, feats, etc from that setting are allowed. I have some ideas on some of them, but others not. I am going for flavor primarily, but with some decent optimization as well (I want it to be challenging).

Desert wind: a Fire Gensai Sword Sage/Dervish
He will be in the Calimshan desert, leading a bandit tribe. His weapons are a pair of scimitars.

Devoted Spirit: No clue, other than a Crusader of some sort.

Diamond Mind: Elf Swashbuckler/Warblade/Eternal Mind
He will be a warrior from the Moon Wood, and favor an elven Court Blade.

Iron Heart: Hobgoblin Warblade/?
Grizzled Hobgoblin warrion, living in the Mountains, on the border of Narfell. Favors the Broadsword.

Setting Sun: Not sure, but seriously considering some kind of gnome monk/shou Disciple/Swordsage mix. He'll fight bare handed. Just to see some little gnome tornado throw the snot out of the player. :D

Shadow Hand: Human Shadow-walker Sword Sage/Shadow Lord.
Of course he will be out of Thesk. One of the shadow lords, he weilds a pair of short swords. Can you say Bamf?

Stone Dragon: Dwarf Crusader 5/Deep stone sentinel 5/Dwarven Defender ?
Exact build will depend on what level I make him. He should be another annoying opponent. The player has to defeat him, and this should be tough. Adamantine armor, combined with Dwarven defender and deepstone sentinel should make him a hard nut to crack.

Tiger Claw: Orc Warblade 5/Blood Claw Master 5/ Barb 2?
Not sure if he will be the first at lvl 10, or 2nd at lvl 12 with two levels of barb. He will live with a tribe on the spine of the world, deep in the kingdom of Many Arrows. He will fight with two Kurikis.

White Raven: No clue.

Anyways, I am still brainstorming, and any help would be appreciated! With builds or with their order of appearing.
Archimedes314
01-05-07, 06:01 PM Could you get away with the White Raven 'master' being a group instead of an individual? Almost a hive-mind sort of deal, perhaps a bunch of halfling warblades with swarmfighting. With tactics of the wolf, flanking maneuver, tactical strike et al. they could put a serious hurt on someone, even if they were a much lower level. Not to mention white raven tactics...
Bonzai
01-05-07, 06:06 PM Hmmm... perhaps a hafling with leadership...
Ryzouken
01-05-07, 06:19 PM for the Devoted Spirit guy... y'know you needn't necessarily have to fight him. I figure there's two ways (at least) you can do it

1) have him fight a LE blackguard type of guy. Maybe with levels of Crusader as well

2) have him do a great service for a paladin (like... I don't know... defend a castle or king against a small assault force. Maybe something political instead) and in exchange, the paladin would willingly lay down his life for the character. Maybe it's an old paladin looking to finally die and hoping to do one last big service for his deity.

But otherwise, you could go with a Tar-Baby Crusader build for the DS guy. With a reach weapon, Thicket of Blades and all the other usual tricks. The ultimate defensive attacker.

continuing the idea along, you should make him have to fight a master of nine to get access to the PrC.
Aramas
01-05-07, 07:08 PM For the Setting Sun master... just drop Monk altogether. You can burn the feat on Imp Unarmed Strike or use the variant Swordsage that trades light armor for a monk's unarmed damage progression.

And you really don't have to multiclass these characters too much. Most of them would be stronger as pure initiators.
PhoenixInferno
01-05-07, 08:22 PM For White Raven, you might want to try something with Purple Dragon Knight.
Bonzai
01-06-07, 12:22 AM For the Setting Sun master... just drop Monk altogether. You can burn the feat on Imp Unarmed Strike or use the variant Swordsage that trades light armor for a monk's unarmed damage progression.

And you really don't have to multiclass these characters too much. Most of them would be stronger as pure initiators.

Where is that varient at? It sounds perfect. I was wracking my brain on how to balance out unarmed damage with initiator levels. If I could do that, then i would make the gnome straight Sword Sage.

I agree, most of them may be stronger as a straight initiator class, but most of the multiclassing is for flavor, and at least has some synergies.
aziraphale60
01-06-07, 12:39 AM Where is that varient at? It sounds perfect. I was wracking my brain on how to balance out unarmed damage with initiator levels. If I could do that, then i would make the gnome straight Sword Sage.

I agree, most of them may be stronger as a straight initiator class, but most of the multiclassing is for flavor, and at least has some synergies.

at the end of the swordsage entry i believe.
Bonzai
01-08-07, 10:29 AM Ok, I found it. That would be perfect. It also gave me an idea. I'll introduce the gnome swordsage first, at around lvl 9. This will give him an ingame, rp reason to have the martial study feat. The duel will take place at lvl 10, and then I can introduce the next one at 11 (fisrt level of Master of the 9, and so on. This way I can get all the none warblade disciplines out of the way, and not delay the characters progression into Master of the 9.

So the order should be.

Setting Sun: gnome Swordsage 10

Devoted Spirit: Human Crusader 12

Desert Wind: Fire Gensai Swordsage 9/Dervish 4

Shadow Hand: Human shadow walker Swordsage 9/Shadow Lord 6

Tiger Claw: Orc Warblade 11 /Blood Claw Master 5/Barbarian 2

White Raven: Hafling Warblade 20

Stone Dragon: Dwarf Crusader 7/Deep Stone sentinel 5/Dwarven Defender 10

Diamond Mind: Elf Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 11/Eternal Blade 10

Iron Heart: Hobgoblin Warblade 25
ksbsnowowl
01-08-07, 11:32 AM Desert Wind: Fire Gensai Swordsage 9/Dervish 4I don't know what kind of progression you were planning for this, but at the very least make it:
Swordsage 8/Dervish 4/Swordsage +1 - that way you have an initiator level of 11 when you pick up that 9th level of Swordsage. Spend your maneuver known on Desert Tempest. Sure, it may not be that useful in this one-on-one duel, but it fits the character sooooo well. He can basically "Dervish Dance" even when he's out of daily uses of Dervish Dance.

Also, are you restricting these masters soley to their mastered discipline? Or will they have a bit of diversion into other discipline schools too? I would strongly suggest the latter, as some of the Shadowhand maneuvers work [b]fantastically[/i] with a dervish and/or Desert Tempest.

The one's in particular that I'm thinking of are Child of Shadow (stance - 1), Cloak of Deception (Boost - 2), and Assassin's Stance (stance - 3).
Bonzai
01-08-07, 03:31 PM There will be some divergence, but the main goal is to get each of these masters the 9th level discipline of their chosen school. After that if there are some obvious synergies, I am definatly going to look into them.

Now that I got the order down (I think), I will start working on the final builds, and will post them here for review. Lol, some of these builds are looking very interesting. I may end up using them myself in some future game.
Bonzai
01-09-07, 10:58 PM Ok, now that the build order has been settled, lets tackle the first master. Thanks to the suggestion, I will use the unarmed varient, and save myself from getting the superior unarmed srike feat.

Gnome Sword Sage 10 (unarmed Varient)
Hp:45
AC: 10 + 1 (belt) + 1 (amulet of natural armor) + ? dex +1 (size)
Babs:+7/+2 (+1 size)
Attack (unarmed):1d10 (2d6 with belt)
Saves
Fort: +3
Ref: +7
Will: +7
Abilities
Str:To be determined
Dex:To be determined
Wis:To be determined
Int: 10
Con: To be determined
Cha: 10
Skills
Balance: 13
Climb: 6
Concentration: 6
jump: 13
Move Silently:13
Hide:13
Sense Motive: 13
Tumble: 13
Feats
To be determined
Possesions
Monk Belt
Amulet of Natural armor +1
Manuevers Readied
To be determined

Ok, there is the starting point. Now I am torn between two synergies.
The first is:
1: Improved unarmed strike
3: Weapon finess
6: Stunning Fist
9: Falling Sun Attack

Or
1: Improved Unarmed strike
2: Weapon Finess
6: Combat Expertese
9: Improved Trip

One route lets me make a stun attempt along with any setting sun manuever. However, a lot of the setting sun manuevers require a trip attempt. Being a gnome, his strength is a weak spot, and this would counter that greatly.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! If you can think of a better alternative, I am open as well. Once I figure out the feats, and focus of his attacks, I will finish out his stats, and start picking manuevers.
Adolph_Kheebler
01-10-07, 01:32 AM If you have the Miniature's Handbook, the White Raven master should have a few levels of Marshall. I'd build a pounce specialist and have him and all of his other guys charge using War Master's Charge. The best build I saw for this was using a catfolk (or anything else with pounce) since it was ruled that the extra 50 damage on a charge attack counts for each attack in the round. All it would take is 120,000gp for a permanent item of Lion's Charge (3x5x4x2000). That is just peanuts for someone 25th level typically. I'd use that and make an attacks per round build.

Maybe something like Warblade 20/Marshall 5 who fights with dual wielding scimitars. He gets himself hasted and then also uses the Slashing Fury feat to get a total of 10 attacks per round. Then stack on a bit of Tiger Claw with this guy to get things like Raging Mongoose and you can get 700 damage just in the bonuses from War Master's Charge alone.
Bonzai
01-11-07, 09:29 PM Hmmm... still looking for the name of that feat. I know I have seen a feat some where that lets you make a dex check instead of Str. to make a trip atempt. If I can't find it tonight, I will go with the stunning fist build, and start working on the devoted crusader build.
Templario
01-12-07, 05:42 PM man, deepstone sentinel asks for 13 ranks in Balance and +10 BBA... how can you pick it at 7th Crusader level? House Rule?

something ironic... elf and Diamond Mind. The key skill os Concentration, which uses CON as base attribute. :D
Bonzai
01-12-07, 07:56 PM man, deepstone sentinel asks for 13 ranks in Balance and +10 BBA... how can you pick it at 7th Crusader level? House Rule?

something ironic... elf and Diamond Mind. The key skill os Concentration, which uses CON as base attribute. :D

Your right, I would have to start taking levels in Dwarven Defender at lvl 8. I wasn't really concerned about the build order to start, just so long as I had the final class levels figured out. This character will be rolled out at lvl 22 after all. That is also why I am not worrying about cross classing penalties for the Elven Diamond Mind build.

As to the Diamond mind, yeah, but Eternal Blade requires manuevers from either the devoted Spirit or the Diamond mind disciplines. Since Warblade has Int synergies with Eternal Blade, I figured it best to go with a Warblade. Besides, flavor wise, diamond mind is the most elvish of the the disciplines.

Working on the Devoted Mind Crusader now, and will post the build soon. Anyone have any suggestions on the gnome Swordsage?
Zemyla
01-14-07, 12:47 AM For White Raven, you might want to try something with Purple Dragon Knight.
Wait, someone actually suggested Purple Dragon Knight? And he wasn't being sarcastic?

Unbelievable.
Bonzai
01-23-07, 01:14 PM Ok, since I am not getting any response on the gnome, on with the devoted spirit Crusader. I am thinking that for this one I will try to do a reach, AoO specialist. Initial build would be something like;

Human LG Crusader
1. Combat Reflexes
1. Weapon Focus
3. Short Haft
6. Power Attack
9. ?
12. ?

Any ideas?
Inkubus
01-23-07, 02:11 PM You could just use a duom and save yourself 2 feats (they've been updated to 3.5 in the dragon compendium and count as martial weapons...).
TrueMallowman
01-23-07, 10:02 PM Flamberge the Scourge of the Sands: Human swordsage 20
Feats: Evasive Reflexes, Adaptive Style, Desert Wind Dodge, Desert Fire, Scourging Sirocco, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Robilar's Gambit
Weaponry of choice: +5 keen defending flaming burst Desert Wind falchion (mod as you will)

I'm trying to think of more. But all of them should be races of ECL 3 or less and stick purely with martial adept classes, using the discipline-specific prestige class when available. The exception to this rule is the bloodstorm blade, since it does not progress IL or maneuvers.
Mr_Teapot
01-24-07, 07:52 PM White Raven: No clue.

Here's the idea: the White Raven master comes last, and the PC has to both fight the White Raven master and all the previously fought discipline masters in one big battle. Perhaps the other masters have leveled up some or had their stats adapted one way or another so that it makes an apporpiate CR encounter.
Mr_Teapot
01-24-07, 08:06 PM Hmmm... still looking for the name of that feat. I know I have seen a feat some where that lets you make a dex check instead of Str. to make a trip atempt. If I can't find it tonight, I will go with the stunning fist build, and start working on the devoted crusader build.

The Setting Sun throw maneuvers already let you use Dex instead of Str. Mighty Throw (or whicever is the 1st level one) specifies this capability, and the others are based off of Mighty Throw.

I'm not sure you'd need Imp. Unarmed Strike with either version of the swordsage, but that depends on how you read the adaption section. My interpretation was that it gave the full Unarmed Strike class ability of the monk. But as it is an optional rule and not clearly detailed, you the GM might feel differently.

And you can't qualify for Stunning Fist at 9th level. Stunning Fist has a prereq of BAB+8 and swordsages only get medium BAB progression.
Bonzai
01-25-07, 06:18 PM A couple of the throws do allow dex or str, but most of the lower level ones simply say make a trip attempt. Still, I suppose at lvl 10, I won't have to worry too much. The bonus from improved trip should suffice. I'll go with that set up for the gnome.

Another build I have laid out is;

Human Shadow Walker (+1 LA) Swordsage 7/Telflamar Shadowlord 6/Sword Sage 2

1. Dodge
1. Blind Fight
3. mobility
6. Spring Attack
9. Weapon Finess
12. Shadow Blade
15. Two Weapon fighting

Will get all the Dimensional Door powers that I can get, to combine with the Shadowlords ability to do a full attack after each one. Will also max out dex to abuse the Weapon Finess/Shadow Blade synergy.
ksbsnowowl
01-25-07, 07:39 PM Human Shadow Walker (+1 LA) Swordsage 7/Telflamar Shadowlord 6/Sword Sage 2...

Will get all the Dimensional Door powers that I can get...Just checking to make sure, but you do know that you don't have to take the Shadow Walker template to take levels in Teflammar Shadow Lord, right? The swordsage teleport maneuvers will qualify you.

The Shadow Walker template is decent for +1 LA, but there are better uses for that level, I think, given that you already qualify without it.
Bonzai
01-26-07, 09:52 AM True.... but it does give you a few more uses of Dimensional door. I'll look and see what one more level of Sword Sage would give, and make a decision.
ksbsnowowl
01-26-07, 10:24 AM True.... but it does give you a few more uses of Dimensional door. I'll look and see what one more level of Sword Sage would give, and make a decision.One more level of Swordsage would give you an initiator level of 13, which allows you to chose a 7th level maneuver, such as the 7th level, swift action, Shadow Hand teleport maneuver. That gives you one more "Dimension Door" per encounter, meaning you can get 3 of them per encounter (Shadow Hand [teleports] of level 2, 5, and 7) without refreshing. On an average day, that's 4 more "DDoors" per day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bonzai 01-05-07, 05:47 PM	I am looking to introduce ToB into a Faerun campaign, as one of the players wants to play a Hobgoblin Warblade/Master of Nine. He'll be starting at level ecl 5. He also wants to be able to customize his weapon. Basicly a +1 Keen Bastard Sword that will eventually (if we go into epic levels), have all the discipline bonuses on it. I am cool with that, and have always given my players ways of customizing their gear (favors from wizards, etc..). So, I thought I would have some fun with this. Starting at lvl 10, and every two levels after, the player will have a one on one duel with a "master" of each discipline. If the player wins, he will have his blade magicly imbued with the symbol of that master (granting the discipline bonus for that discipline). Soo... I need to create a master for each of the 9 disciplines. This will be in the FR setting, and so any races, clssses, feats, etc from that setting are allowed. I have some ideas on some of them, but others not. I am going for flavor primarily, but with some decent optimization as well (I want it to be challenging). Desert wind: a Fire Gensai Sword Sage/Dervish He will be in the Calimshan desert, leading a bandit tribe. His weapons are a pair of scimitars. Devoted Spirit: No clue, other than a Crusader of some sort. Diamond Mind: Elf Swashbuckler/Warblade/Eternal Mind He will be a warrior from the Moon Wood, and favor an elven Court Blade. Iron Heart: Hobgoblin Warblade/? Grizzled Hobgoblin warrion, living in the Mountains, on the border of Narfell. Favors the Broadsword. Setting Sun: Not sure, but seriously considering some kind of gnome monk/shou Disciple/Swordsage mix. He'll fight bare handed. Just to see some little gnome tornado throw the snot out of the player. :D Shadow Hand: Human Shadow-walker Sword Sage/Shadow Lord. Of course he will be out of Thesk. One of the shadow lords, he weilds a pair of short swords. Can you say Bamf? Stone Dragon: Dwarf Crusader 5/Deep stone sentinel 5/Dwarven Defender ? Exact build will depend on what level I make him. He should be another annoying opponent. The player has to defeat him, and this should be tough. Adamantine armor, combined with Dwarven defender and deepstone sentinel should make him a hard nut to crack. Tiger Claw: Orc Warblade 5/Blood Claw Master 5/ Barb 2? Not sure if he will be the first at lvl 10, or 2nd at lvl 12 with two levels of barb. He will live with a tribe on the spine of the world, deep in the kingdom of Many Arrows. He will fight with two Kurikis. White Raven: No clue. Anyways, I am still brainstorming, and any help would be appreciated! With builds or with their order of appearing.
Archimedes314 01-05-07, 06:01 PM	Could you get away with the White Raven 'master' being a group instead of an individual? Almost a hive-mind sort of deal, perhaps a bunch of halfling warblades with swarmfighting. With tactics of the wolf, flanking maneuver, tactical strike et al. they could put a serious hurt on someone, even if they were a much lower level. Not to mention white raven tactics...
Bonzai 01-05-07, 06:06 PM	Hmmm... perhaps a hafling with leadership...
Ryzouken 01-05-07, 06:19 PM	for the Devoted Spirit guy... y'know you needn't necessarily have to fight him. I figure there's two ways (at least) you can do it 1) have him fight a LE blackguard type of guy. Maybe with levels of Crusader as well 2) have him do a great service for a paladin (like... I don't know... defend a castle or king against a small assault force. Maybe something political instead) and in exchange, the paladin would willingly lay down his life for the character. Maybe it's an old paladin looking to finally die and hoping to do one last big service for his deity. But otherwise, you could go with a Tar-Baby Crusader build for the DS guy. With a reach weapon, Thicket of Blades and all the other usual tricks. The ultimate defensive attacker. continuing the idea along, you should make him have to fight a master of nine to get access to the PrC.
Aramas 01-05-07, 07:08 PM	For the Setting Sun master... just drop Monk altogether. You can burn the feat on Imp Unarmed Strike or use the variant Swordsage that trades light armor for a monk's unarmed damage progression. And you really don't have to multiclass these characters too much. Most of them would be stronger as pure initiators.
PhoenixInferno 01-05-07, 08:22 PM	For White Raven, you might want to try something with Purple Dragon Knight.
Bonzai 01-06-07, 12:22 AM	For the Setting Sun master... just drop Monk altogether. You can burn the feat on Imp Unarmed Strike or use the variant Swordsage that trades light armor for a monk's unarmed damage progression. And you really don't have to multiclass these characters too much. Most of them would be stronger as pure initiators. Where is that varient at? It sounds perfect. I was wracking my brain on how to balance out unarmed damage with initiator levels. If I could do that, then i would make the gnome straight Sword Sage. I agree, most of them may be stronger as a straight initiator class, but most of the multiclassing is for flavor, and at least has some synergies.
aziraphale60 01-06-07, 12:39 AM	Where is that varient at? It sounds perfect. I was wracking my brain on how to balance out unarmed damage with initiator levels. If I could do that, then i would make the gnome straight Sword Sage. I agree, most of them may be stronger as a straight initiator class, but most of the multiclassing is for flavor, and at least has some synergies. at the end of the swordsage entry i believe.
Bonzai 01-08-07, 10:29 AM	Ok, I found it. That would be perfect. It also gave me an idea. I'll introduce the gnome swordsage first, at around lvl 9. This will give him an ingame, rp reason to have the martial study feat. The duel will take place at lvl 10, and then I can introduce the next one at 11 (fisrt level of Master of the 9, and so on. This way I can get all the none warblade disciplines out of the way, and not delay the characters progression into Master of the 9. So the order should be. Setting Sun: gnome Swordsage 10 Devoted Spirit: Human Crusader 12 Desert Wind: Fire Gensai Swordsage 9/Dervish 4 Shadow Hand: Human shadow walker Swordsage 9/Shadow Lord 6 Tiger Claw: Orc Warblade 11 /Blood Claw Master 5/Barbarian 2 White Raven: Hafling Warblade 20 Stone Dragon: Dwarf Crusader 7/Deep Stone sentinel 5/Dwarven Defender 10 Diamond Mind: Elf Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 11/Eternal Blade 10 Iron Heart: Hobgoblin Warblade 25
ksbsnowowl 01-08-07, 11:32 AM	Desert Wind: Fire Gensai Swordsage 9/Dervish 4I don't know what kind of progression you were planning for this, but at the very least make it: Swordsage 8/Dervish 4/Swordsage +1 - that way you have an initiator level of 11 when you pick up that 9th level of Swordsage. Spend your maneuver known on Desert Tempest. Sure, it may not be that useful in this one-on-one duel, but it fits the character sooooo well. He can basically "Dervish Dance" even when he's out of daily uses of Dervish Dance. Also, are you restricting these masters soley to their mastered discipline? Or will they have a bit of diversion into other discipline schools too? I would strongly suggest the latter, as some of the Shadowhand maneuvers work [b]fantastically[/i] with a dervish and/or Desert Tempest. The one's in particular that I'm thinking of are Child of Shadow (stance - 1), Cloak of Deception (Boost - 2), and Assassin's Stance (stance - 3).
Bonzai 01-08-07, 03:31 PM	There will be some divergence, but the main goal is to get each of these masters the 9th level discipline of their chosen school. After that if there are some obvious synergies, I am definatly going to look into them. Now that I got the order down (I think), I will start working on the final builds, and will post them here for review. Lol, some of these builds are looking very interesting. I may end up using them myself in some future game.
Bonzai 01-09-07, 10:58 PM	Ok, now that the build order has been settled, lets tackle the first master. Thanks to the suggestion, I will use the unarmed varient, and save myself from getting the superior unarmed srike feat. Gnome Sword Sage 10 (unarmed Varient) Hp:45 AC: 10 + 1 (belt) + 1 (amulet of natural armor) + ? dex +1 (size) Babs:+7/+2 (+1 size) Attack (unarmed):1d10 (2d6 with belt) Saves Fort: +3 Ref: +7 Will: +7 Abilities Str:To be determined Dex:To be determined Wis:To be determined Int: 10 Con: To be determined Cha: 10 Skills Balance: 13 Climb: 6 Concentration: 6 jump: 13 Move Silently:13 Hide:13 Sense Motive: 13 Tumble: 13 Feats To be determined Possesions Monk Belt Amulet of Natural armor +1 Manuevers Readied To be determined Ok, there is the starting point. Now I am torn between two synergies. The first is: 1: Improved unarmed strike 3: Weapon finess 6: Stunning Fist 9: Falling Sun Attack Or 1: Improved Unarmed strike 2: Weapon Finess 6: Combat Expertese 9: Improved Trip One route lets me make a stun attempt along with any setting sun manuever. However, a lot of the setting sun manuevers require a trip attempt. Being a gnome, his strength is a weak spot, and this would counter that greatly. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! If you can think of a better alternative, I am open as well. Once I figure out the feats, and focus of his attacks, I will finish out his stats, and start picking manuevers.
Adolph_Kheebler 01-10-07, 01:32 AM	If you have the Miniature's Handbook, the White Raven master should have a few levels of Marshall. I'd build a pounce specialist and have him and all of his other guys charge using War Master's Charge. The best build I saw for this was using a catfolk (or anything else with pounce) since it was ruled that the extra 50 damage on a charge attack counts for each attack in the round. All it would take is 120,000gp for a permanent item of Lion's Charge (3x5x4x2000). That is just peanuts for someone 25th level typically. I'd use that and make an attacks per round build. Maybe something like Warblade 20/Marshall 5 who fights with dual wielding scimitars. He gets himself hasted and then also uses the Slashing Fury feat to get a total of 10 attacks per round. Then stack on a bit of Tiger Claw with this guy to get things like Raging Mongoose and you can get 700 damage just in the bonuses from War Master's Charge alone.
Bonzai 01-11-07, 09:29 PM	Hmmm... still looking for the name of that feat. I know I have seen a feat some where that lets you make a dex check instead of Str. to make a trip atempt. If I can't find it tonight, I will go with the stunning fist build, and start working on the devoted crusader build.
Templario 01-12-07, 05:42 PM	man, deepstone sentinel asks for 13 ranks in Balance and +10 BBA... how can you pick it at 7th Crusader level? House Rule? something ironic... elf and Diamond Mind. The key skill os Concentration, which uses CON as base attribute. :D
Bonzai 01-12-07, 07:56 PM	man, deepstone sentinel asks for 13 ranks in Balance and +10 BBA... how can you pick it at 7th Crusader level? House Rule? something ironic... elf and Diamond Mind. The key skill os Concentration, which uses CON as base attribute. :D Your right, I would have to start taking levels in Dwarven Defender at lvl 8. I wasn't really concerned about the build order to start, just so long as I had the final class levels figured out. This character will be rolled out at lvl 22 after all. That is also why I am not worrying about cross classing penalties for the Elven Diamond Mind build. As to the Diamond mind, yeah, but Eternal Blade requires manuevers from either the devoted Spirit or the Diamond mind disciplines. Since Warblade has Int synergies with Eternal Blade, I figured it best to go with a Warblade. Besides, flavor wise, diamond mind is the most elvish of the the disciplines. Working on the Devoted Mind Crusader now, and will post the build soon. Anyone have any suggestions on the gnome Swordsage?
Zemyla 01-14-07, 12:47 AM	For White Raven, you might want to try something with Purple Dragon Knight. Wait, someone actually suggested Purple Dragon Knight? And he wasn't being sarcastic? Unbelievable.
Bonzai 01-23-07, 01:14 PM	Ok, since I am not getting any response on the gnome, on with the devoted spirit Crusader. I am thinking that for this one I will try to do a reach, AoO specialist. Initial build would be something like; Human LG Crusader 1. Combat Reflexes 1. Weapon Focus 3. Short Haft 6. Power Attack 9. ? 12. ? Any ideas?
Inkubus 01-23-07, 02:11 PM	You could just use a duom and save yourself 2 feats (they've been updated to 3.5 in the dragon compendium and count as martial weapons...).
TrueMallowman 01-23-07, 10:02 PM	Flamberge the Scourge of the Sands: Human swordsage 20 Feats: Evasive Reflexes, Adaptive Style, Desert Wind Dodge, Desert Fire, Scourging Sirocco, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Robilar's Gambit Weaponry of choice: +5 keen defending flaming burst Desert Wind falchion (mod as you will) I'm trying to think of more. But all of them should be races of ECL 3 or less and stick purely with martial adept classes, using the discipline-specific prestige class when available. The exception to this rule is the bloodstorm blade, since it does not progress IL or maneuvers.
Mr_Teapot 01-24-07, 07:52 PM	White Raven: No clue. Here's the idea: the White Raven master comes last, and the PC has to both fight the White Raven master and all the previously fought discipline masters in one big battle. Perhaps the other masters have leveled up some or had their stats adapted one way or another so that it makes an apporpiate CR encounter.
Mr_Teapot 01-24-07, 08:06 PM	Hmmm... still looking for the name of that feat. I know I have seen a feat some where that lets you make a dex check instead of Str. to make a trip atempt. If I can't find it tonight, I will go with the stunning fist build, and start working on the devoted crusader build. The Setting Sun throw maneuvers already let you use Dex instead of Str. Mighty Throw (or whicever is the 1st level one) specifies this capability, and the others are based off of Mighty Throw. I'm not sure you'd need Imp. Unarmed Strike with either version of the swordsage, but that depends on how you read the adaption section. My interpretation was that it gave the full Unarmed Strike class ability of the monk. But as it is an optional rule and not clearly detailed, you the GM might feel differently. And you can't qualify for Stunning Fist at 9th level. Stunning Fist has a prereq of BAB+8 and swordsages only get medium BAB progression.
Bonzai 01-25-07, 06:18 PM	A couple of the throws do allow dex or str, but most of the lower level ones simply say make a trip attempt. Still, I suppose at lvl 10, I won't have to worry too much. The bonus from improved trip should suffice. I'll go with that set up for the gnome. Another build I have laid out is; Human Shadow Walker (+1 LA) Swordsage 7/Telflamar Shadowlord 6/Sword Sage 2 1. Dodge 1. Blind Fight 3. mobility 6. Spring Attack 9. Weapon Finess 12. Shadow Blade 15. Two Weapon fighting Will get all the Dimensional Door powers that I can get, to combine with the Shadowlords ability to do a full attack after each one. Will also max out dex to abuse the Weapon Finess/Shadow Blade synergy.
ksbsnowowl 01-25-07, 07:39 PM	Human Shadow Walker (+1 LA) Swordsage 7/Telflamar Shadowlord 6/Sword Sage 2... Will get all the Dimensional Door powers that I can get...Just checking to make sure, but you do know that you don't have to take the Shadow Walker template to take levels in Teflammar Shadow Lord, right? The swordsage teleport maneuvers will qualify you. The Shadow Walker template is decent for +1 LA, but there are better uses for that level, I think, given that you already qualify without it.
Bonzai 01-26-07, 09:52 AM	True.... but it does give you a few more uses of Dimensional door. I'll look and see what one more level of Sword Sage would give, and make a decision.
ksbsnowowl 01-26-07, 10:24 AM	True.... but it does give you a few more uses of Dimensional door. I'll look and see what one more level of Sword Sage would give, and make a decision.One more level of Swordsage would give you an initiator level of 13, which allows you to chose a 7th level maneuver, such as the 7th level, swift action, Shadow Hand teleport maneuver. That gives you one more "Dimension Door" per encounter, meaning you can get 3 of them per encounter (Shadow Hand [teleports] of level 2, 5, and 7) without refreshing. On an average day, that's 4 more "DDoors" per day.