Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Molot 12-02-05, 04:19 PM	As in the question... With these goals, he will be able to use 2 types of epic casting and 4 attacks just at the 21 level... I've tryed to make it with MT and Arcane Hieropteran, but I failed to get BaB. Any interpretation-dependent and DM-only things allowed.
Moon-Lancer 12-02-05, 04:30 PM	its impossible, I think.
Zathyr 12-02-05, 04:39 PM	It can be done with a fast spell progression class like Apostle of Peace (BoED) or Ur-Priest (CW) advanced with Fochlocan Lyrist (CAdv). You'll likely need to pull one of the "tricks" in the FL thread to get the language and evasion requirements. Bard 8/AoP 2/SC 2/FL 8 or something like that. EDIT: you can pick up Evasion without losing BAB without resorting to soulmelds and the iffy issue of the ring of evasion by taking Master Thrower (CW). Drop Bard, AoP, and Sublime Chord levels each by 1 and pick up two levels of the thrower and one more of Fochlucan Lyrist. Then you just need to learn druidic somehow.
Squirrelloid 12-02-05, 04:48 PM	And learning druidic is just one charm person/dominate person away... Use on an evil druid to avoid alignment issues. Or use tongues and write yourself a manual on druidic.
DisposableHero_ 12-02-05, 04:48 PM	its impossible, I think.If you pull out sufficient dirty tricks it can be done: Illumian Bard1/Monk2/Fighter2/UrPriest2/SpellSword3/SublimeChord2/Fochlucan Lyrist8 Feats: Iron Will (1), Dodge (Fighter1), Spell Focus (Evil) (3), Improved Krau Sigil (6) This requires Improved Krau Sigil to qualify for prestige classes, and requires the character to learn the druidic language before level 13 without being a druid. The end result is +16 base attack, 9th level divine spells (Caster Level 18), 9th level arcane spells (caster level 15 or 19 with practiced spellcaster)
Molot 12-02-05, 05:09 PM	Thanx guys, that's what I wanted :D Now, time to melt that sugestions into 1 big thing... PS I'll rather would be CN aligned... so no for Ur :(
Zathyr 12-02-05, 05:18 PM	If you want to be CN that makes things surprisingly tougher. I'm not sure that's possible without fractional BAB (an optional rule from Unearthed Arcana). Of course if you're part cleric you can always cast Divine Power for full BAB..
Prominence 12-02-05, 05:23 PM	I believe someone, possibly snow, a while back made a build with 9th level arcane, 7th divine, ~16 sneak attack, trapfinding, 16 BaB, etc. So yeah, definitely possible.
hogarth 12-02-05, 05:24 PM	If you want to be CN that makes things surprisingly tougher. I'm not sure that's possible without fractional BAB (an optional rule from Unearthed Arcana). What about Bard 7/Master Thrower 2/Divine Crusader 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9? (Again, getting an ex-druid to teach you Druidic.)
Molot 12-02-05, 05:45 PM	What about Bard 7/Master Thrower 2/Divine Crusader 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9?It is OK and seems to be nice to paly too. Thanx a lot. (Again, getting an ex-druid to teach you Druidic.)Or any other character that knows it, Song Dragon for example :D cause she will probably be CG or CN and will love songs... Or I can be an talented orphant raised among druids... just to get it at 1 level. Master Thrower somehow breaks the idea of the character, but why not :) It will expalin his combat skills. Some (4) levels of runesmith would be fun, to get permanent rune, but it can be easily done in epic. Now there is no place in this build for that... Maybe some PrC that can be started by 5th level bard just for 2 levels? I can't see any worth it now, so maybe none is actually needed.
Deckeon 12-02-05, 06:03 PM	extend spell, persistent spell, divinemetamagic-persistent spell 18cha(or extra turning feat) = persistent - divine power = 20BAB and frees you up from having to chase BAB at all. I assume 7 turn attempts to make divine power persistant - please correct if wrong
Molot 12-02-05, 06:08 PM	extend spell, persistent spell, divinemetamagic-persistent spell 18cha(or extra turning feat) = persistent - divine power = 20BAB and frees you up from having to chase BAB at all.And you are dead in antimagic field. BaB 16 was just in case I would be unable to effective use magic.
Squirrelloid 12-02-05, 06:15 PM	And you are dead in antimagic field. BaB 16 was just in case I would be unable to effective use magic. Wait, why are you in an antimagic field? You dont have contingency "Teleport if i lose initiative to an enemy spellcaster" active at all times? Whats wrong with you? 20th level encounters end in the first round whenever there is an optimized mage present, even if all participants don't actually die in the first round. Thus a mage never wants to participate in a combat in which they lost initiative to another mage. And you have blindsense 120' or so at that point from polymorph or shapechange, so no one is sneaking up on you with an AMF.
Deckeon 12-02-05, 07:36 PM	And you are dead in antimagic field. BaB 16 was just in case I would be unable to effective use magic. I would think a 9th/9th caster would probably be in trouble regardless of his BAB in an AM field, but anyway I would argue that you should be searching (EX) abilities/feats and skills rather than BAB if that truely is your only worry about the divine power optimization. They would help you more I think to get out of such a situation than simple natural BAB of 16.
PhoenixInferno 12-02-05, 07:52 PM	I believe someone, possibly snow, a while back made a build with 9th level arcane, 7th divine, ~16 sneak attack, trapfinding, 16 BaB, etc. So yeah, definitely possible. That also lacked low level spell slots, only had 2 REAL sneak attack die, and used 3rd party material...with a pretty weak HD for someone who was supposed to fight. :) It used Nar Demonbinder to get the arcane spells, Spellfiltch from Dragonlance and Ninja from Rokugan.