9th level Divine and Arcane [Archive] - Wizards Community

9th level Divine and Arcane [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JWT
05-26-06, 07:56 AM I know it can be done, but I am wondering if it can be done given the following restrictions:

1) For a Good Character (no UrPriest)
2) With Scorcer and Cleric as your two classes
3) No gestalt.
4) If it can be done without flaws, mores the better.

Any takers. I am wondering of the apprentice feat taken twice will get us the requisite 2nd level spells.

Retraining cheese is OK.

Any takers?
kilroo
05-26-06, 09:30 AM I'm not an expert...so all I'm really doing is a bump combined with a prediction of the answers:

1) Yes, several ways;
2) If there's a way to do it strictly with Sorceror and Cleric casting and without being an Illumian I'd be surprised...and as an Illumian I'm not sure how to do it unless there's a way to get Trackless Step in one class level or less (offhand Arcane Hierophant is the next easiest dual progression I know of to get into beside Theurge).

Look at it this way: a Sorceror can only give up two levels of spellcasting and still get 9th level spells. One of those is to get Cleric. You can give up one other level and then you've still got to get dual progression for 15 or 16 levels. Is there a domain that grants Trackless Step? That could do it.

Now, if text overrules table, you could go with Rainbow Servant, but that's probably not what you meant.

For what it's worth, I think I recall that a Sublime Lyrist can get to 9th level sorceror/wizard spells and 9th level Druid spells, but I'm pretty sure that doing so requires either convincing your DM to use a Ring of Evasion to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist or spending two feats to get evasion from a soulmeld, and I know it takes a high intelligence because of the skill requirements. If you decide to look into that, it works better if you can use the Green Whisperer. Either the Sublime Compilation or the Tools for Fochlucan Lyrists thread (maybe both) has more info on all this.

3) Well, gestalt makes it academic, so I doubt anyone would have mentioned this to begin with except maybe to be annoying.

4) It shouldn't take flaws to do unless it's by a trick I don't know, although to pull off the Sublime Lyrist version I seem to recall feats wind up very scarce.

And no. Even if you let it qualify you for prestige classes to begin with, Precocious Apprentice doesn't work with a double spell progression. You can do that for doubling up magic and psionics, but because of the way it's worded, for a dual magic progression it doesn't even work once.
JWT
05-26-06, 09:32 AM Now, if text overrules table, you could go with Rainbow Servant, but that's probably not what you meant.

I thought about that, but it looked like Rainbow Servant gave up too many levels of +1 spellcating to make it to 9th level.
kilroo
05-26-06, 09:32 AM That's the thing. The table says it does. The text says it doesn't.
RuneLordAsmodeus
05-26-06, 09:40 AM "and as an Illumian I'm not sure how to do it unless there's a way to get Trackless Step in one class level or less (offhand Arcane Hierophant is the next easiest dual progression I know of to get into beside Theurge). "

Wildrunner Prestige Class. Races of the Wild. Gives you +10 feet move and the trackless step class feature at its first lvl However....

You need Race: Elf or half elf, Align: good or chaotic, Skills: hide 5, Know Nature 5, Move silently 5, Survival 5. Feat: Endurance

So take 3Wiz then 3 Cleric, then 10 Mysic theurge, and on the way through this prestige class take Endurance and use all your skill points to get the above requirements (remember there cross classed so in effect double some of the requirments). Then 1 lvl of wildrunner and take Arcane Hyp for 10 lvls this is the quickest way for you to get 9th in both without blaggy classes...
JWT
05-26-06, 09:50 AM That's the thing. The table says it does. The text says it doesn't.

Well, I'll be. AFAIK, text should trump table. Given that though, the other thing keeping me from that class was it only got you to 8th level Divine spells. Or does the text differ there as well? (Also - aren't they technically Arcane spells drawn from the Divine list.)

So take 3Wiz then 3 Cleric, then 10 Mysic theurge

Well, I knew how to do it with Wiz & Cleric, but I was looking to do some Sorcerer + Divine Metamagic Cheese.
kilroo
05-26-06, 10:03 AM I don't see a way to do it without being an Elf and an Illumian at the same time.

You may be able to get the Sublime Lyrist build off with cleric instead of druid, although you'd be giving up a lot to pull it off. I'm not sure.
LucRivNor
05-26-06, 12:06 PM A Kobold Sorcerer 9/Apostle of peace 1/Mystic THeurge 10 could do it.

Apostle of peace is a "Good UrPriest" but you must have Vow of Peace/Non violence
_J_
05-26-06, 12:45 PM A Kobold Sorcerer 9/Apostle of peace 1/Mystic THeurge 10 could do it.

Apostle of peace is a "Good UrPriest" but you must have Vow of Peace/Non violence
Don't forget poverty! ;)
Thomas_Covenant
05-26-06, 01:15 PM Well, I knew how to do it with Wiz & Cleric, but I was looking to do some Sorcerer + Divine Metamagic Cheese.That's Cheese mentioned twice. Depending on how you're bending the rules,
the Level Drain/Restoration Trick may be for you.

Basically, start say....Sor4/Cle3/MyTh3.
Get level drained, fail saving throw for permanent loss. (Intentionally is an option)
Lose a level, say Sorcerer....Sor3/Cle3/MyTh3
The Spell description for Restoration says you gain enough exp to barely make the level back, but doesn't say the same class is required.
Now you're Sor3/Cle3/MyTh4

Repeat a few times, get to Sor1/Cle1/MyTh8...you're on your way.
Serious, serious cheese, but I honestly think its RAW legal. (barely)
_J_
05-26-06, 01:22 PM That is so much cheese it makes the moon look small. But it's probably the only way to get 9th level cleric ans sorcerer spells before epic, though. Unless you go to even more extreme cheese with things like Wishes and Miracles and rituals and Thought bottles and Emancipated spawns and such.
Thomas_Covenant
05-26-06, 01:32 PM Yeah, Sorcerer and Cleric without Ur-priest.....
I just don't think there's a way without something off the wall.
Even beholder mage casts as a wizard, so that's out.

Mmm...Illithid Savant, or Ethereal Doppleganger by shapechange to assume identity...

Ok, Ok, I'll stop...cut it out with the tomatoes already.
JWT
05-26-06, 01:51 PM Yeah, my thinking was that it would not be possible, but I wanted to make sure. I may have to simply eat a level or two of Sorcerer. Won't give up the Cleric levels tho.

Can I mention this is another instance where the sorcerer is nerfed. Well not really, but still, it is frustrating.

Oh well.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer
05-26-06, 02:21 PM Race: Illumian

Sorc:1 (Improved Sigil Krau)
Sorc:2
Cleric:1 (Mad Faith)
Mystic Theurge:10

So at level 13 you have, Level 12 Arcane Spells and Level 11 Divine Spells. If you were a Druid you could continue with Arcane Hierophant.

Sorc:1
Sorc:2
Druid:1
Mystic Theurge:10
Arcane Hierophant:7

To get a total of Level 19 Arcane and level 18 Divine. You could forgo one level of Arcane Hierophant to get a PrC that would give you turning ability.
FeceMan
05-26-06, 02:39 PM I know it can be done, but I am wondering if it can be done given the following restrictions:

1) For a Good Character (no UrPriest)
2) With Scorcer and Cleric as your two classes
3) No gestalt.
4) If it can be done without flaws, mores the better.

Any takers. I am wondering of the apprentice feat taken twice will get us the requisite 2nd level spells.

Retraining cheese is OK.

Any takers?
Try sorcerer/favored soul (more synergy). Other than that, I'm no help. No clue on this one...

EDIT: Aside from utter cheese with the abuse and whatnot.
Crusher Nate
05-26-06, 02:43 PM You can also get Trackless Step from your race. Bamboo Spirit Folk from Oriental Adventures get it.

Edit: I forget what their favored class is, though... so that tip may not be much help to you.
Sci
05-26-06, 02:46 PM Try sorcerer/favored soul (more synergy). Other than that, I'm no help. No clue on this one...

EDIT: Aside from utter cheese with the abuse and whatnot.

Shujenja would be better than favored soul...it's all charisma, as I recall.
...or however you spell it...
FeceMan
05-26-06, 02:48 PM Shujenja would be better than favored soul...it's all charisma, as I recall.
...or however you spell it...
Hmmm.

Mystic Theurge needs to be extended to 14 levels anyway.
kilroo
05-26-06, 08:34 PM All these alternatives being offered are all well and good, but if he wants divine persistent metacheese he's got to either go with cleric or take whatever that prestige class is people use to get turning...and only take one level of divine spellcasting beforehand...if I'm not mistaken.

Which STILL doesn't help much since I still can't figure out a way to pull this off without being an Illumian with ISK and then you still need a second dual-progression class that you can qualify for with nothing but Sorc 2/Divine Caster 1/Mystic Theurge X/Sacred Exorcist 1.

With Mongoose Publishing this would be much easier, but then, that's Mongoose.

Let's see here...I'm doing this from memory and I think pulling the skills off would take an intelligence of at LEAST 18, but it might be the best shot you have...

Illumian

Bard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8

Required feats: Improved Sigil Krau, Open Least Chakra: Feet, Shape Soulmeld: Cerulean Sandals, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell

Bard gets you all the class skills you have to have, actually, but the intelligence needed to keep them all high enough cross-class is rather daunting.

If your DM rules that evasion from a ring will fly, you can drop the Incarnum feats (assuming I even have the right ones, there, because I'm not sure).

The real stopping point with this build is that you have to convince your DM that you've found some way of learning Druidic without being a druid and that either the Fochlucan College (which is, presumably, mostly composed of bard/druids) won't have a problem with it or that you can keep them from finding out.

That is, however, the closest I can come up with to what you're asking for. You lose 3 levels of Cleric casting, which is the most you can give up and still get 9th level spells. You get full Sublime Chord casting, which means 9th level spells there.You just don't have as many arcane spells per day as a Sorceror would. And you're a little thinner on 3rd level slots.

You could go Bard 2/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 if you prefer, I suppose; that'll get you more 3rd level spells.

If, on the other hand, you can use the Green Whisperer from Dragon 311, you could try

Bard 1/Druid 2/Mystic Theurge 2/Green Whisperer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 8

That'll just barely net you 9th level Sublime Chord and 9th level Druid spells. In addition to all the other backbreaking requirements (although using Green Whisperer makes speaking Druidic easier on you, and possibly the skills as well) you have to take Dismissal as your first level 5 Sor/Wiz spell when you get to Sublime Chord.
DavidWL
05-26-06, 11:34 PM Illumian (Urr-Krau)
Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

CL 18 Sorcerer, CL 18 Cleric
Take Improved Krau to qualify for mystic theurge (assuming you think it's legal -- I think it's RAW.)

Take:
Able Learner
Extend
Persistent
Divine Metamagic (Persistent)
Improved Sigil (Krau)
Open Least Chakra (feet)
Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots)
ninjarabbit
05-27-06, 06:50 AM battlesorcerer10/divinecrusader2/mysticthurge8, you can subsitute the last 2 levels of battlesorcerer with a PrC
JWT
06-01-06, 09:34 AM Illumian (Urr-Krau)
Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

CL 18 Sorcerer, CL 18 Cleric
Take Improved Krau to qualify for mystic theurge (assuming you think it's legal -- I think it's RAW.)

I take it that you meant to put:

Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

If that is right, then this is an awesome build!

Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced!

Thanks!

Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah!
DavidWL
06-02-06, 01:31 AM I take it that you meant to put:

Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

If that is right, then this is an awesome build!

Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced!

Thanks!

Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah!

Yes, I meant to use Sorcerer rather than Wizard (as you'd requested). I slipped, as it was originally Bard/Archivist/Wizard.

I don't know of anywhere that Improved Sigil (Krau) is hashed out. I saw that Caelic used it in the Gish competition, and TG didn't rule it illegal. I think it is RAW, but really what matters is what your DM thinks.

The metamagic feat for bards (don't remember it's name) limits the total spell level to spells you could cast, meaning you can only persist 3rd level or lower spells -- not that great.

I do really like the build, but be aware of 1 major weakness -- if your Chakra Bind is dispelled, you lose evasion ==> you no longer qualify for the Fochlucan Lyrist class. Depending on your DM,t his might mean you also lose 10 caster levels ...

Best,
David
kilroo
06-02-06, 08:17 AM I take it that you meant to put:

Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10

If that is right, then this is an awesome build!

Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced!

Thanks!

Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah!

Bear in mind that to do this you're going to have to use either a ring (if your DM is that crazy) or two feats to get Evasion AND use some cheese to get Druidic, though.
Analysis
06-02-06, 10:03 AM ... Bamboo Spirit Folk: Sorcerer 3/Favored Soul 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Arcane Hierophant 4. Might need some feats to get proper skills as class skills, but otherwise...
_J_
06-02-06, 10:29 AM ... Bamboo Spirit Folk: Sorcerer 3/Favored Soul 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Arcane Hierophant 4. Might need some feats to get proper skills as class skills, but otherwise...
Neither Sorcerer nor Favored soul will get 2nd level spells before level 4.
JWT
06-06-06, 08:33 AM Is there a template that will grant Evasion?

One that has no LA (yeah right), or barring that the min LA possible. If so, I could make it work via the UA level buy off rules.
_J_
06-06-06, 10:16 AM Is there a template that will grant Evasion?

One that has no LA (yeah right), or barring that the min LA possible. If so, I could make it work via the UA level buy off rules.
Yes there is, Shadow creature from Lords of madness, LA +2 :D
JWT
06-06-06, 10:23 AM Yes there is, Shadow creature from Lords of madness, LA +2 :D

Excellent. Now, I'm off too learn Druidic.

Anyone seen my Pimsleur Druidic CDs?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JWT 05-26-06, 07:56 AM	I know it can be done, but I am wondering if it can be done given the following restrictions: 1) For a Good Character (no UrPriest) 2) With Scorcer and Cleric as your two classes 3) No gestalt. 4) If it can be done without flaws, mores the better. Any takers. I am wondering of the apprentice feat taken twice will get us the requisite 2nd level spells. Retraining cheese is OK. Any takers?
kilroo 05-26-06, 09:30 AM	I'm not an expert...so all I'm really doing is a bump combined with a prediction of the answers: 1) Yes, several ways; 2) If there's a way to do it strictly with Sorceror and Cleric casting and without being an Illumian I'd be surprised...and as an Illumian I'm not sure how to do it unless there's a way to get Trackless Step in one class level or less (offhand Arcane Hierophant is the next easiest dual progression I know of to get into beside Theurge). Look at it this way: a Sorceror can only give up two levels of spellcasting and still get 9th level spells. One of those is to get Cleric. You can give up one other level and then you've still got to get dual progression for 15 or 16 levels. Is there a domain that grants Trackless Step? That could do it. Now, if text overrules table, you could go with Rainbow Servant, but that's probably not what you meant. For what it's worth, I think I recall that a Sublime Lyrist can get to 9th level sorceror/wizard spells and 9th level Druid spells, but I'm pretty sure that doing so requires either convincing your DM to use a Ring of Evasion to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist or spending two feats to get evasion from a soulmeld, and I know it takes a high intelligence because of the skill requirements. If you decide to look into that, it works better if you can use the Green Whisperer. Either the Sublime Compilation or the Tools for Fochlucan Lyrists thread (maybe both) has more info on all this. 3) Well, gestalt makes it academic, so I doubt anyone would have mentioned this to begin with except maybe to be annoying. 4) It shouldn't take flaws to do unless it's by a trick I don't know, although to pull off the Sublime Lyrist version I seem to recall feats wind up very scarce. And no. Even if you let it qualify you for prestige classes to begin with, Precocious Apprentice doesn't work with a double spell progression. You can do that for doubling up magic and psionics, but because of the way it's worded, for a dual magic progression it doesn't even work once.
JWT 05-26-06, 09:32 AM	Now, if text overrules table, you could go with Rainbow Servant, but that's probably not what you meant. I thought about that, but it looked like Rainbow Servant gave up too many levels of +1 spellcating to make it to 9th level.
kilroo 05-26-06, 09:32 AM	That's the thing. The table says it does. The text says it doesn't.
RuneLordAsmodeus 05-26-06, 09:40 AM	"and as an Illumian I'm not sure how to do it unless there's a way to get Trackless Step in one class level or less (offhand Arcane Hierophant is the next easiest dual progression I know of to get into beside Theurge). " Wildrunner Prestige Class. Races of the Wild. Gives you +10 feet move and the trackless step class feature at its first lvl However.... You need Race: Elf or half elf, Align: good or chaotic, Skills: hide 5, Know Nature 5, Move silently 5, Survival 5. Feat: Endurance So take 3Wiz then 3 Cleric, then 10 Mysic theurge, and on the way through this prestige class take Endurance and use all your skill points to get the above requirements (remember there cross classed so in effect double some of the requirments). Then 1 lvl of wildrunner and take Arcane Hyp for 10 lvls this is the quickest way for you to get 9th in both without blaggy classes...
JWT 05-26-06, 09:50 AM	That's the thing. The table says it does. The text says it doesn't. Well, I'll be. AFAIK, text should trump table. Given that though, the other thing keeping me from that class was it only got you to 8th level Divine spells. Or does the text differ there as well? (Also - aren't they technically Arcane spells drawn from the Divine list.) So take 3Wiz then 3 Cleric, then 10 Mysic theurge Well, I knew how to do it with Wiz & Cleric, but I was looking to do some Sorcerer + Divine Metamagic Cheese.
kilroo 05-26-06, 10:03 AM	I don't see a way to do it without being an Elf and an Illumian at the same time. You may be able to get the Sublime Lyrist build off with cleric instead of druid, although you'd be giving up a lot to pull it off. I'm not sure.
LucRivNor 05-26-06, 12:06 PM	A Kobold Sorcerer 9/Apostle of peace 1/Mystic THeurge 10 could do it. Apostle of peace is a "Good UrPriest" but you must have Vow of Peace/Non violence
_J_ 05-26-06, 12:45 PM	A Kobold Sorcerer 9/Apostle of peace 1/Mystic THeurge 10 could do it. Apostle of peace is a "Good UrPriest" but you must have Vow of Peace/Non violence Don't forget poverty! ;)
Thomas_Covenant 05-26-06, 01:15 PM	Well, I knew how to do it with Wiz & Cleric, but I was looking to do some Sorcerer + Divine Metamagic Cheese.That's Cheese mentioned twice. Depending on how you're bending the rules, the Level Drain/Restoration Trick may be for you. Basically, start say....Sor4/Cle3/MyTh3. Get level drained, fail saving throw for permanent loss. (Intentionally is an option) Lose a level, say Sorcerer....Sor3/Cle3/MyTh3 The Spell description for Restoration says you gain enough exp to barely make the level back, but doesn't say the same class is required. Now you're Sor3/Cle3/MyTh4 Repeat a few times, get to Sor1/Cle1/MyTh8...you're on your way. Serious, serious cheese, but I honestly think its RAW legal. (barely)
_J_ 05-26-06, 01:22 PM	That is so much cheese it makes the moon look small. But it's probably the only way to get 9th level cleric ans sorcerer spells before epic, though. Unless you go to even more extreme cheese with things like Wishes and Miracles and rituals and Thought bottles and Emancipated spawns and such.
Thomas_Covenant 05-26-06, 01:32 PM	Yeah, Sorcerer and Cleric without Ur-priest..... I just don't think there's a way without something off the wall. Even beholder mage casts as a wizard, so that's out. Mmm...Illithid Savant, or Ethereal Doppleganger by shapechange to assume identity... Ok, Ok, I'll stop...cut it out with the tomatoes already.
JWT 05-26-06, 01:51 PM	Yeah, my thinking was that it would not be possible, but I wanted to make sure. I may have to simply eat a level or two of Sorcerer. Won't give up the Cleric levels tho. Can I mention this is another instance where the sorcerer is nerfed. Well not really, but still, it is frustrating. Oh well.
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 05-26-06, 02:21 PM	Race: Illumian Sorc:1 (Improved Sigil Krau) Sorc:2 Cleric:1 (Mad Faith) Mystic Theurge:10 So at level 13 you have, Level 12 Arcane Spells and Level 11 Divine Spells. If you were a Druid you could continue with Arcane Hierophant. Sorc:1 Sorc:2 Druid:1 Mystic Theurge:10 Arcane Hierophant:7 To get a total of Level 19 Arcane and level 18 Divine. You could forgo one level of Arcane Hierophant to get a PrC that would give you turning ability.
FeceMan 05-26-06, 02:39 PM	I know it can be done, but I am wondering if it can be done given the following restrictions: 1) For a Good Character (no UrPriest) 2) With Scorcer and Cleric as your two classes 3) No gestalt. 4) If it can be done without flaws, mores the better. Any takers. I am wondering of the apprentice feat taken twice will get us the requisite 2nd level spells. Retraining cheese is OK. Any takers? Try sorcerer/favored soul (more synergy). Other than that, I'm no help. No clue on this one... EDIT: Aside from utter cheese with the abuse and whatnot.
Crusher Nate 05-26-06, 02:43 PM	You can also get Trackless Step from your race. Bamboo Spirit Folk from Oriental Adventures get it. Edit: I forget what their favored class is, though... so that tip may not be much help to you.
Sci 05-26-06, 02:46 PM	Try sorcerer/favored soul (more synergy). Other than that, I'm no help. No clue on this one... EDIT: Aside from utter cheese with the abuse and whatnot. Shujenja would be better than favored soul...it's all charisma, as I recall. ...or however you spell it...
FeceMan 05-26-06, 02:48 PM	Shujenja would be better than favored soul...it's all charisma, as I recall. ...or however you spell it... Hmmm. Mystic Theurge needs to be extended to 14 levels anyway.
kilroo 05-26-06, 08:34 PM	All these alternatives being offered are all well and good, but if he wants divine persistent metacheese he's got to either go with cleric or take whatever that prestige class is people use to get turning...and only take one level of divine spellcasting beforehand...if I'm not mistaken. Which STILL doesn't help much since I still can't figure out a way to pull this off without being an Illumian with ISK and then you still need a second dual-progression class that you can qualify for with nothing but Sorc 2/Divine Caster 1/Mystic Theurge X/Sacred Exorcist 1. With Mongoose Publishing this would be much easier, but then, that's Mongoose. Let's see here...I'm doing this from memory and I think pulling the skills off would take an intelligence of at LEAST 18, but it might be the best shot you have... Illumian Bard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8 Required feats: Improved Sigil Krau, Open Least Chakra: Feet, Shape Soulmeld: Cerulean Sandals, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell Bard gets you all the class skills you have to have, actually, but the intelligence needed to keep them all high enough cross-class is rather daunting. If your DM rules that evasion from a ring will fly, you can drop the Incarnum feats (assuming I even have the right ones, there, because I'm not sure). The real stopping point with this build is that you have to convince your DM that you've found some way of learning Druidic without being a druid and that either the Fochlucan College (which is, presumably, mostly composed of bard/druids) won't have a problem with it or that you can keep them from finding out. That is, however, the closest I can come up with to what you're asking for. You lose 3 levels of Cleric casting, which is the most you can give up and still get 9th level spells. You get full Sublime Chord casting, which means 9th level spells there.You just don't have as many arcane spells per day as a Sorceror would. And you're a little thinner on 3rd level slots. You could go Bard 2/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 if you prefer, I suppose; that'll get you more 3rd level spells. If, on the other hand, you can use the Green Whisperer from Dragon 311, you could try Bard 1/Druid 2/Mystic Theurge 2/Green Whisperer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 8 That'll just barely net you 9th level Sublime Chord and 9th level Druid spells. In addition to all the other backbreaking requirements (although using Green Whisperer makes speaking Druidic easier on you, and possibly the skills as well) you have to take Dismissal as your first level 5 Sor/Wiz spell when you get to Sublime Chord.
DavidWL 05-26-06, 11:34 PM	Illumian (Urr-Krau) Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 CL 18 Sorcerer, CL 18 Cleric Take Improved Krau to qualify for mystic theurge (assuming you think it's legal -- I think it's RAW.) Take: Able Learner Extend Persistent Divine Metamagic (Persistent) Improved Sigil (Krau) Open Least Chakra (feet) Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots)
ninjarabbit 05-27-06, 06:50 AM	battlesorcerer10/divinecrusader2/mysticthurge8, you can subsitute the last 2 levels of battlesorcerer with a PrC
JWT 06-01-06, 09:34 AM	Illumian (Urr-Krau) Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 CL 18 Sorcerer, CL 18 Cleric Take Improved Krau to qualify for mystic theurge (assuming you think it's legal -- I think it's RAW.) I take it that you meant to put: Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 If that is right, then this is an awesome build! Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced! Thanks! Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah!
DavidWL 06-02-06, 01:31 AM	I take it that you meant to put: Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 If that is right, then this is an awesome build! Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced! Thanks! Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah! Yes, I meant to use Sorcerer rather than Wizard (as you'd requested). I slipped, as it was originally Bard/Archivist/Wizard. I don't know of anywhere that Improved Sigil (Krau) is hashed out. I saw that Caelic used it in the Gish competition, and TG didn't rule it illegal. I think it is RAW, but really what matters is what your DM thinks. The metamagic feat for bards (don't remember it's name) limits the total spell level to spells you could cast, meaning you can only persist 3rd level or lower spells -- not that great. I do really like the build, but be aware of 1 major weakness -- if your Chakra Bind is dispelled, you lose evasion ==> you no longer qualify for the Fochlucan Lyrist class. Depending on your DM,t his might mean you also lose 10 caster levels ... Best, David
kilroo 06-02-06, 08:17 AM	I take it that you meant to put: Bard 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1/Mystic Theurge 7/Fochlucan Lyrist 10 If that is right, then this is an awesome build! Can you point me to where the boards have hashed out the Improved Sigil (Krau) arguments. After reading it, I think it may be a stretch, but I can be convinced! Thanks! Also: Isn't there a Metamagic cost tweak that you can do with bardic music? If so Whoah! Bear in mind that to do this you're going to have to use either a ring (if your DM is that crazy) or two feats to get Evasion AND use some cheese to get Druidic, though.
Analysis 06-02-06, 10:03 AM	... Bamboo Spirit Folk: Sorcerer 3/Favored Soul 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Arcane Hierophant 4. Might need some feats to get proper skills as class skills, but otherwise...
_J_ 06-02-06, 10:29 AM	... Bamboo Spirit Folk: Sorcerer 3/Favored Soul 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Arcane Hierophant 4. Might need some feats to get proper skills as class skills, but otherwise... Neither Sorcerer nor Favored soul will get 2nd level spells before level 4.
JWT 06-06-06, 08:33 AM	Is there a template that will grant Evasion? One that has no LA (yeah right), or barring that the min LA possible. If so, I could make it work via the UA level buy off rules.
_J_ 06-06-06, 10:16 AM	Is there a template that will grant Evasion? One that has no LA (yeah right), or barring that the min LA possible. If so, I could make it work via the UA level buy off rules. Yes there is, Shadow creature from Lords of madness, LA +2 :D
JWT 06-06-06, 10:23 AM	Yes there is, Shadow creature from Lords of madness, LA +2 :D Excellent. Now, I'm off too learn Druidic. Anyone seen my Pimsleur Druidic CDs?